in another thread people were talking bad about soldiers and saying firefighters are great people unlike soldiers...

why shoot down soldiers? they have no say in thier mission (shoot down the decision makers if soldiers are being forced to do bad stuff) and ultimately are intending to defend the country.

people of any profession can be great and people of any profession can be slimeballs. the profession doesn't make the person. I could understand unconditional praise for volunteers but not somebody who is getting paid to do thier job. No more special than anyone else. Especially doctors, nurses, cops and teachers.

12/5/2009 10:53:00 PM

12/5/2009 11:12:58 PM

Um, anyone that agrees to put their life at risk in order to protect or save another is worthy of high praise.

Why the hell would you question that? Pay is an incentive, and it doesn't lessen any part of their contribution to society.

Holy jesus what a terrible thread.

12/5/2009 11:13:44 PM

my question is why the praise for just firefighters and not for cops and soldiers the same?

there are SEVERAL professions that "put their life in danger"

12/5/2009 11:16:57 PM

because you don't read carefully, or are probably taking things out of context.


/thread, please.

12/5/2009 11:19:41 PM

Quote :

"unlike soldiers, firefighters are some of the best, most honorable, most selfless/altruistic people on the planet"

thats the quote. It would work for volunteers but paid firefighters are no better than anyone else.

12/5/2009 11:21:48 PM

I was about to respond, and then remembered a decision I made months ago never to address mambagrl again. The stupid is strong with this one, folks.

12/5/2009 11:32:17 PM

I honestly can't figure out why this thread was necessary. Why is this something worth discussing? This is just a waste of a thread.

12/5/2009 11:33:22 PM

I see now this is from a comment made by 0EPII1 in this thread: message_topic.aspx?topic=582802

So he's being a douche. What else is new? Still not remotely threadworthy.

12/5/2009 11:40:50 PM

You don't think people's overall view of firefighters is a lot higher than those of soldiers, cops, teachers, nurses and doctors?

12/5/2009 11:46:02 PM

I, for one, am not playing your game. Make up whatever you want, just like you did when you created this thread.

We'll come back later and see what absurdity you've come up with next.

12/5/2009 11:47:32 PM

"in another thread people were one poster was talking bad about soldiers and saying firefighters are great people unlike soldiers..."

When you stop discussing something in another forum because someone says that it "belongs in TSB" it doesn't mean that you immediately have to rush over here and make a shit thread about it. Are you trying to diagnose a perceived sociological phenomenon with this discussion?

-Most people think highly of firefighters because they put their lives in danger to help others and generally don't get any bad press about it.
-Cops, on the other hand, are often in the news because a few of them are occasionally busted for morally questionable activities. Pair that up with the fact that most people have had at least one bad encounter with a police officer and you can see why some are less eager to pour the same praise on cops.
-Soldiers put their lives in danger in situations that are often politicized and subsequently suffer from the fallout in public opinion. Pair that up with the fact that a few soldiers have gotten busted for morally questionable things overseas or in war zones and you can see why some are less eager to pour the same praise on the troops.
-Doctors do good things, but many are often viewed as simply being in it for the money. Pair that up with a few getting busted for medical malpractice and you can see why some are less eager to pour the same praise on doctors.

If you can't figure that out on your own then you may be suffering from a severe learning disability.

FWIW, I respect them all the same.

12/6/2009 12:06:51 AM

...and some firefighters set fires just for the thrill of it. It's surprisingly common. Judge the man, not the occupation.

12/6/2009 12:13:02 AM

...and some clowns at birthday parties are actually John Wayne Gacy.

12/6/2009 12:17:14 AM

Such a kind and noble profession. Clowns are clearly superior to regular civilians.

12/6/2009 12:21:10 AM

Quote :

"It would work for volunteers but paid firefighters are no better than anyone else."

I disagree. The fact that one decides to make a dangerous job his profession is as entitled to compensation and respect as anyone else who is competent and compensated for their job.

The extra level of respect goes to an individual who consistently risks his life as an unavoidably essential part of his job for a relatively unsubstantial amount of monetary compensation. The fact that he or she takes satisfaction in their job likewise does not diminish the added respect.

So yes, while I can see the economic value in everyone from a stripper to a loan shark, I reserve a special respect for people whose jobs I deem especially essential and under-compensated.

12/6/2009 12:30:50 AM

Jobs with the highest fatality rates

The following 10 occupations had the highest fatality rates in 2008:

1. Fishers and related fishing workers

Fatality rate*: 128.9



2. Logging workers

Fatality rate: 115.7



3. Aircraft pilots and flight engineers

Fatality rate: 72.4



4. Structural iron and steel workers

Fatality rate: 46.4



5. Farmers and ranchers

Fatality rate: 39.5



6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors

Fatality rate:: 36.8



7. Roofers

Fatality rate: 34.4



8. Electrical power line installers and repairers

Fatality rate: 29.8



9. Driver/sales workers and truck drivers

Fatality rate: 22.8



10. Taxi drivers and chauffeurs

Fatality rate: 19.3

Quote :

"The extra level of respect goes to an individual who consistently risks his life as an unavoidably essential part of his job for a relatively unsubstantial amount of monetary compensation. The fact that he or she takes satisfaction in their job likewise does not diminish the added respect. "

those cab drivers and fishermen sure are noble!

Quote :

"I reserve a special respect for people whose jobs I deem especially essential and under-compensated."

what about nurses and teachers?

12/6/2009 12:37:33 AM

Oh my freaking god, why are you still on about this? Are you on a crusade here?

12/6/2009 12:40:04 AM

How about the fucking Beatles? They've got a 50% mortality rate.

Jesus Christ this thread was an awful idea.

12/6/2009 12:48:12 AM

^ give mambagrl a break, she’s still learning

12/6/2009 12:59:29 AM

Ask Charlotte Church what happens when one unfairly criticizes firefighters:

Quote :

"As far as references to firefighters were concerned, Church was reported to have said: "They went from here in society to celebrities. 'They are even invited here to present television awards which I just don't agree with.' Such views have been met with anger by members of New York's Welsh-American community."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/1682860.

As for me, in addition to firefighters and other emergency services personnel, I praise the men of the Time Bandit and their fellow fishermen.

12/6/2009 1:42:53 AM

I am more of a Phil man, myself. Sig is a close second.

12/6/2009 2:11:01 AM

^ Yeah, Captain Phil's all right--and he might live if he'd quit smoking. But, hell, they all smoke like freaking freight trains.

I'm telling you, I think Sig might be manic. That guy looks possessed when he's gets after those crabs.

12/6/2009 7:00:59 AM

I graduated with an Econ degree in May 2008, then decided to become a firefighter. I will not respond to the original poster but let me just go through the hiring process here for the Charlotte Fire Department so everyone understands what it takes to even become a paid firefighter. I am in the middle of this process in Charlotte, but I think im close to getting hired in one of the smaller cities around here (Rock Hill, Gastonia).

4000 people applied this year in Charlotte for 48 positions. Here is the process:

-Written Exam (SAT style: Math, Reading comprehension, Mechanical aptitude.)


-Physical Agility Test (very difficult. there were people in my group throwing up during the middle of it and I even saw a guy taken away in an ambulance. )

- Background survery (this took me about 2 hours to fill out online. They asked me to name every illegal drug I have ever tried, how many times, most recent. They asked me to list everything I have ever stolen from an employer, every stolen item I currently have in my possession. Every ticket/citation/ ect.)

- Polygraph exam/Background interview. (So you decided to lie during your background survery? They ask you the same questions while you are hooked up to a lie detector. They ask you other general questions (Why do you want this job? Why should we hire you?)

- Panel interview. (5 or so people in the panel ask you more specific questions. There are many "What would you do in this situation" type questions where you have to think on the fly. )

- Drug Test / Physical Examination.

- If you are lucky enough to pass all of this and get a job offer, THEN you join a recruit class and go through a 14 week Academy. The academy is very difficult. PT every day. Tons of book work about fire science, building construction, protocols, EMS training, ect.




Once you are on the job you work 24 hour shifts, holidays, weekends, anniversaries, ect.



Not looking for any pity for firefighters whatsoever, just want people to understand what it's really like. I met a guy a while back who had to try out 9 years to get on the Charlotte Fire Department. Over the past few years I have asked dozens of firefighters "Do you like this job?". I swear 9 out of 10 have said the same 5 word answer: "Best job in the world".

12/6/2009 10:49:28 AM

r/p

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 10:52 AM. Reason : r/p]

12/6/2009 10:51:34 AM

That's a whole lot of nonsense to hold a hose. I'd imagine the fraternity atmosphere of firefighters and a huge pool of the unemployed has a lot to do with those artificially inflated requirements.

Join a volunteer outfit. They'll take any old fat fucker.

12/6/2009 11:36:22 AM

smc: You have no idea what your talking about. Good day.

12/6/2009 11:38:21 AM

Quote :

"I'd imagine"

You're not very imaginative.

12/6/2009 11:40:48 AM

Hell, half the 16 year old rednecks I grew up with were volunteer firefighters, including a few 100lbs girls. They just needed warm bodies and people to wash the truck.

In other news, most of the "science" of arson investigations(something that does require real training) is actually just bullshit based on anecdotal evidence. Arson conviction rates are dropping like a rock as arson investigators are more routinely humiliated.

12/6/2009 11:44:49 AM

A soldier can do very bad things and justify them with "just doing his job".

A firefighter can't really rape women or murder innocents for the sake of fighting a fire.

Just sayin'

12/6/2009 11:49:29 AM

^^ So based on your limited depth of experience, firefighters are a crack team of put-out-fireologists, that know just enough to aim a hose in the general direction and not back the truck into a wall. I'm sure the PROFESSIONAL firefighters appreciate your expertise on recruiting.

Has it not occurred to you that there are some places that can't afford a professional firefighting force, and have to resort to volunteers? Larger cities pay their firefighters. This is a fairly simple concept. I don't know why you'd think your backwoods experience would apply everywhere.

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason : .]

12/6/2009 11:51:21 AM

Quote :

"Hell, half the 16 year old rednecks I grew up with were volunteer firefighters, including a few 100lbs girls. They just needed warm bodies and people to wash the truck. "

Well that's why you don't have any idea what you're talking about. You are generalizing based on your experience with a rural volunteer fire dept. Paid/City Fire Departments are an ENTIRE different ballgame.

12/6/2009 11:59:52 AM

Quote :

"A firefighter can't really rape women or murder innocents for the sake of fighting a fire. "

they can set a fire, or let one get worse though.

Quote :

"4000 people applied this year in Charlotte for 48 positions. Here is the process:"

wait so you're telling me this is a career that is competitive and requires training? 14 whole weeks of school? holy cow!

Quote :

"Once you are on the job you work 24 hour shifts, holidays, weekends, anniversaries, ect.sit on your ass until a cat runs up a tree"

two can play the exageration game.

12/6/2009 12:08:26 PM

But it's the same job. Your best case scenario is a neutral impact on the world: nothing burned down today. Similarly, a cop's best case scenario is no one killed each other. For a soldier's good day, they would want to just be peacekeepers and aid workers.

But on the worst days, a soldier is the destroyer of worlds. On the worst days, a cop is a babysitter of killers, and a firefighter helplessly watches buildings burn and scrapes motorists from the pavement.

My point is you can do better. You're college educated. There are so many fields out there where you could further the development of the human race, rather than indirectly facilitate it.

Glory and excitement are the biggest draws of firefighting. But if you do it long enough, I think you'll see the sad futility of it. And if you're not careful...hell even if you are careful...you'll eat it trying to save some dumb ass's barn where he stored all his propane tanks and didn't bother to tell you.

Also: 6500 people apply for 120 jobs at Applebees
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/12/06/nyregion/20091206_Applebees_Audio.html

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2009 12:12:27 PM

Quote :

"I could understand unconditional praise for volunteers but not somebody who is getting paid to do thier job. No more special than anyone else. Especially doctors, nurses, cops and teachers. "

unlike the other four, firefighters are severely underpaid for what they do.

12/6/2009 12:15:18 PM

well... why do you say that soldier is a destroyer of worlds more so than a cop? Sure, there are some countries out there that command their soldiers to do horrific things, but there are some countries that command their cops to do horrific things also (hello kgb etc).

a soldier that fights for an honorable country like ours is no different than a cop. he is no more a destroyer of "worlds" than a cop who is forced to fire at a criminal who is threatening the lives of others

you're college educated - you shouldn't need me to hold your hand on moral equivalences.

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 12:19 PM. Reason : s]

12/6/2009 12:18:04 PM

Quote :

" for an honorable country like ours "

I got your point but boy, you're delusional on this.

The soldiers mean well and have to follow their orders which SHOULD be honorable but they rarely all. Not the soldiers fault though.

12/6/2009 12:19:59 PM

mambagrl,

I'm going to take the high-road and ignore someone as ignorant as yourself.


As far as soldiers go, most of them are heros to me, specifically SEALS/Special Forces. My brother is in Iraq with a wife and two young kids at home. I respect anyone who is willing to serve their country/community in some way.

12/6/2009 12:21:46 PM

Quote :

"My point is you can do better. You're college educated. There are so many fields out there where you could further the development of the human race, rather than indirectly facilitate it. "

You're not the first person to tell me that I could "do better". It only motivates me more.

12/6/2009 12:25:36 PM

don't sweat it redstains... college kids think its cool to hate their own country, or as they rationalize it, "view it objectively" which typically means glossing over the much worse problems in other countries while focusing on minute problems in their own.

they'll grow out of it... most of them will anyway

12/6/2009 12:26:33 PM

^ haha, wow.

how do you get hating the country out of this? that is some powerful hallucination you have going there...

12/6/2009 12:31:20 PM

I, for one, am thankful that there are professional firefighters. I understand that there will always be a need for volunteers in this line of work, and I value them as well. I just happen to think that the professionals amongst the group deserve far more credit than is being paid in this thread.

For those of you that are questioning the moral equivalence of their contributions, you need to take a really long, hard look at your consciences. If you know someone who's life has been turned upside down by a housefire, carfire, or wildfire, you'd have a very different opinion of what these people do.

This thread is a disgusting showcase for people that do not live in the real world. Maybe when you grow up, you'll understand.

12/6/2009 1:58:59 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "I could understand unconditional praise for volunteers but not somebody who is getting paid to do thier job. No more special than anyone else. Especially doctors, nurses, cops and teachers. " unlike the other four, firefighters are severely underpaid for what they do."

Teachers are severely underpaid for what they do.

And RedStains -- thank you. We need more like you. Good luck on a job near your home!

12/6/2009 2:39:33 PM

Quote :

"Soldiers put their lives in danger in situations that are often politicized and subsequently suffer from the fallout in public opinion. Pair that up with the fact that a few soldiers have gotten busted for morally questionable things overseas or in war zones and you can see why some are less eager to pour the same praise on the troops."

My opinion is derived from the drunk obnoxious marines (usually enlisted) that I see downtown (Wilmington) at the bar acting like morons, starting fights, shouting, and trying to fondle random chicks. Many bars ban any soldier E-3 and below.

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM. Reason : l]

12/6/2009 2:49:11 PM

Quote :

"How about the fucking Beatles? They've got a 50% mortality rate. Jesus Christ this thread was an awful idea."

I admit it, I LOLed.

Quote :

"My opinion is derived from the drunk obnoxious marines (usually enlisted) that I see downtown (Wilmington) at the bar acting like morons, starting fights, shouting, and trying to fondle random chicks."

Same could be said for any large group of late adolescent males. Fraternities do the same thing, the only thing they've got going for them is that they confine it to their own property.

12/6/2009 3:39:13 PM

Firefighters get all the attention and love because of 9/11...so the rest of the firefighters get to milk it for all its worth.

Soldiers in my opinion deserve more respect because they are actually in serious danger 24/7 when deployed. firefighters are only in danger when on a call or pulling cats out of trees.

12/6/2009 3:48:14 PM

Quote :

"Fraternities do the same thing, the only thing they've got going for them is that they confine it to their own property."

Except overweight frat boys wearing pastel polos and rainbow flip-flops are not trained to be killing machines nor knowledgeable in hand to hand combat.

12/6/2009 4:20:57 PM

so they're of even less value to society

12/6/2009 4:24:50 PM

^ o snap

Quote :

"Soldiers in my opinion deserve more respect because they are actually in serious danger 24/7 when deployed. firefighters are only in danger when on a call or pulling cats out of trees."

You have a fucked up world view if you think it's okay to place more value on one dangerous profession over another. Perhaps you'd rather let some untrained volunteer, as has been suggested earlier in this thread, try to save your life if you're stuck in a burning building.

Your problem is that you're trying to equate the relative value of these very disparate fields. I'd like to introduce you to the concept of having an apple, and an orange.

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 4:29 PM. Reason : .]

12/6/2009 4:25:16 PM

Quote :

"Teachers are severely underpaid for what they do. "

bullshit. Teachers only bitch about being underpaid constantly because they have our kids' educations to hold hostage. They get paid well for what they do, and the get severely overpaid once they move into administrative roles.

Quote :

"Except overweight frat boys wearing pastel polos and rainbow flip-flops are not trained to be killing machines nor knowledgeable in hand to hand combat. "

A lot of them somehow think they are trained fighting machines when they get drunk. They also fool themselves into thinking that they have strength in numbers, similar to the military. Unfortunately, most frat boys start having second thoughts after they see the first one get laid out.

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 4:43 PM. Reason : frat analogy]

12/6/2009 4:38:47 PM