http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/detroit/2010/2011_honda_cr_z_hybrid/index.html



...And it's still slow. Hybrid single slammer anyone?

Quote :

"This powertrain is the sixth and latest iteration of the one in Honda's other two hybrids, the Civic Hybrid and Insight, and pairs a small displacement, four-cylinder engine, in this case a 1.5-liter, 16-valve single-cammer, with a brushless DC motor positioned in place of the flywheel. The 10-kilowattmotor/generator pulls double duty, helping accelerate the CR-Z and capturing kinetic energy in a 100-volt nickel metal hydride battery during braking and coasting. Engine and motor combine to deliver 122 horsepower and 128 pound-feet of torque (123 pound-feet on CVT-equipped models), making the CR-Z the most powerful hybrid in Honda's lineup, but also its least fuel efficient. With the standard six-speed manual, Honda estimates the CR-Z will achieve an EPA rating of 31 city and 37 highway mpg. With the optional continuously variable transmission, mileage improves to 36 city/38 highway mpg, but that's not great for a hybrid, especially one sprung from the loins of the original Insight, which managed a staggering 70 highway mpg (61 in 2008 parlance). "

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

1/13/2010 2:21:55 PM

And it is called the CR-Z.

Needs at least 150 hp.

1/13/2010 2:24:56 PM

This is the gayest shit ever.

Quote :

"Honda estimates the CR-Z will achieve an EPA rating of 31 city and 37 highway mpg"

More than 20 years later, and a HYBRID successor to the CRX gets inferior gas mileage to the original CRX. How's that for progress?

1/13/2010 2:26:45 PM

OMG its a chopped insight!

1/13/2010 2:34:30 PM

^^ My thoughts exactly.

1/13/2010 3:11:52 PM

i bet that shit doesn't weigh 1800 #s like my '86 did

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 3:27 PM. Reason : s]

1/13/2010 3:26:46 PM

Gay.

They should've either made it actually be efficient, or they should've made a badass AWD turbo hatch.

1/13/2010 3:46:12 PM

I have one question

WHY THE FUCK DONT WE DO DIESEL HERE?

They have NON hybrid cars in Europe that get almost TWICE AS MUCH fuel economy as the PRIUS.

Difference? THEY'RE FUCKING DIESEL.

1/13/2010 3:47:37 PM

^this

1/13/2010 3:53:38 PM

^^double? Which cars are you talking about. Not saying you're wrong, but keep in mind the European mpg ratings use the imperial gallon, which is a different unit than the gallon we use and prevents direction comparison. It's roughly a 20% difference.

1/13/2010 4:16:44 PM

this CRZ gets similar gas mileage to my dad's 99 Corolla

the problem is that everything is so heavy now

1/13/2010 5:16:19 PM

^^ That's possible

The current one I've got my eye on is the Toyota Aygo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Aygo

The "Extra-urban" diesel model gets a combined 57.4 mpg.

The Prius gets 50mpg, so I guess that's not that much more .

Still, it's $12,500 for a car that gets better fuel economy.

1/13/2010 5:37:05 PM

65mpg Ford

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm

70mpg Polo

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4219904.html

There was also a series of highly fuel efficient cars featured on top gear a while back...can't remember which ones but all were diesel. I remember the Jag would have gotten something like 1000 miles on one tank.


Diesel 'accord'

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9712548-7.html

[Edited on January 13, 2010 at 5:42 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/13/2010 5:40:05 PM

Quote :

"The "Extra-urban" diesel model gets a combined 57.4 mpg. The Prius gets 50mpg, so I guess that's not that much more"

ntm diesel costs more, so the difference is naught

1/13/2010 5:49:29 PM

Are you serious?

You really think that you'll make-up the $15,000 more you'll pay for the Prius by the difference between gas and diesel, even when the diesel vehicle gets better gas mileage?

1/13/2010 5:54:58 PM

your battery packs won't go bad in the diesel like they will in a fucking hybrid

1/13/2010 6:00:40 PM

<3 my Jetta TDI's ~50mpg

1/13/2010 7:03:52 PM

anything single cam is ftw

1/13/2010 7:18:11 PM

Quote :

"Are you serious? You really think that you'll make-up the $15,000 more you'll pay for the Prius by the difference between gas and diesel, even when the diesel vehicle gets better gas mileage?"

Yes I'm serious.

I was responding to your point on gas mileage, not on total cost of ownership

1/13/2010 7:43:48 PM

You guys are comparing apples to elephants here. You can't compare the mileage ratings of European cars not sold in the US. The EPA doesn't test them, and the European cycles used to measure mileage aren't even close to being similar.

Don't get me wrong, I think hybrids are a waste of money and that diesel is superior. Just don't make false assumptions.

1/13/2010 7:59:02 PM

i'd buy 2 of those fords tomorrow. pisses me off SO MUCH!

1/13/2010 8:17:39 PM

Quote :

"Don't get me wrong, I think hybrids are a waste of money and that diesel is superior."

I don't think all hybrid designs are a waste of money... An electric powered/propelled vehicle that utilizes a 1.0L diesel (or smaller) which acts, in a sense, as a huge alternator to power the electric motor, would be awesome. I don't know why more of these type of vehicles haven't come out yet.

1/13/2010 9:54:47 PM

I find it sad that we could have a good looking ford car, that people will buy in the US, with amazing mpg. However, since our govt taxes shit differently, its too expensive for the company to sell it here. And along the way this will be blamed on the free market not working.

Ive only owned hondas, but it seems they have had a couple of misteps lately. If i was buying a replacement for my accord, id buy a fusion hybrid.

1/13/2010 10:06:37 PM

the diesel fiesta is really hot

1/13/2010 10:43:23 PM

Quote :

"You guys are comparing apples to elephants here. You can't compare the mileage ratings of European cars not sold in the US. The EPA doesn't test them, and the European cycles used to measure mileage aren't even close to being similar."

Very true. The reason why a lot of the diesels quoted here get such an amazing gas mileage, is because they are very small and very underpowered cars. And no, they would NOT sell very well in the US except for maybe a few large cities for a number of reasons. They wouldn't even save much money because of the difference in cost of diesel and gas in the US. Prius is actually prettty large once you get into it or sompare it side-by-side with a regur mid-size hatch/wagon, and it accelerates and drives the same as a regular four banger corolla. I do not own one, but i ride in both a prius and some of these subcompacts and it's a huge difference in space, comfort, built quality and [at least perceived] safety

Not saying that diesels are not more efficient that gas or gas-electric hybrid at this point, defenitely apples to elephants here

Quote :

"I don't think all hybrid designs are a waste of money... An electric powered/propelled vehicle that utilizes a 1.0L diesel (or smaller) which acts, in a sense, as a huge alternator to power the electric motor, would be awesome. I don't know why more of these type of vehicles haven't come out yet."

Because it takes some serious R&D to make them powerful and efficient enough to obtain highway speeeds and travel for any extended distance? How much money did GM invest into the Volt so far? It's not as easy as attaching a brigs and stratton power generator to a golf cart.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM. Reason : .]

1/14/2010 8:09:21 AM

Quote :

"Needs at least 150 hp."

Why? It's on par with every econobox of the early 2000s.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 8:40 AM. Reason : .]

1/14/2010 8:37:43 AM

Quote :

"Honda estimates the CR-Z will achieve an EPA rating of 31 city and 37 highway mpg."

The gas Civic already gets 25/36 and the Hybrid Civic gets 40/45. I don't really see any milestones here. This car is pointless IMO.

1/14/2010 9:16:50 AM

Quote :

"I don't think all hybrid designs are a waste of money... An electric powered/propelled vehicle that utilizes a 1.0L diesel (or smaller) which acts, in a sense, as a huge alternator to power the electric motor, would be awesome. I don't know why more of these type of vehicles haven't come out yet."

Diesel engines are very expensive. Hybrid drivetrains are very expensive. Combine the two and you price yourself out of the market.

Stein, they're billing it as a sporty hybrid and in some articles I've read about it the authors (the fools that they are) are calling it a sports car! So the general perception that Honda has put out and wants is that this is a sporty, fun to drive hybrid.

Strangely, I almost thought this car looked good in white. But this red color shows how hideous the design can be, yikes!

1/14/2010 9:31:22 AM

pretty good knowledge getting dropped ITT

1/14/2010 12:20:00 PM

Quote :

"Gay. They should've either made it actually be efficient, or they should've made a badass AWD turbo hatch."

1/14/2010 1:07:15 PM

it will be a loooooonnnnnng time before Honda makes anything badass + AWD + sporty

They're just too conservative

1/14/2010 2:18:23 PM

Man, they really screwed the pooch going from concept to production model.





The ENTIRE powertrain is in front of the front axle line, must make for great handling.

1/19/2010 1:06:10 PM

FAIL

1/19/2010 1:26:13 PM

I just got about 37mpg in my dad's 10 year old Corolla over the weekend

1/19/2010 7:48:08 PM

All those 60+ mpg cars from the 70s and 80s are also deathtraps.

And the euro econodiesels are almost all city cars, which aren't designed for the highway speeds and acceleration needed to safely operate on US highways.

And keep in mind that this car will likely be pretty damn cheap, and that the new EPA mpg ratings are VERY conservative for hybrid vehicles. The reality of this car getting 40+ mpg, for an affordable price is pretty attractive.

I got to ride in one of the 80's Honda ultramileage cars last year. It got ~63mpg originally, today it gets about 45-50. And you would be killed instantly in even a minor collision. It also has a top speed of about 60mph. I'll take safety and highway speed capability, thanks.

1/19/2010 8:39:31 PM

^care to defend its horrible styling?

1/19/2010 11:51:37 PM

nope, its a shitty car. Unless it's priced at <15k, I don't see how its going to succeed

1/20/2010 12:53:42 AM

haha, that's not gonna happen

i found the sticker in the glove box of my '86 CRX Si, it was like $11k

1/20/2010 7:47:54 AM

Price:

Quote :

"Honda officials refused to release pricing information for the 2011 Honda CR-Z at the NAIAS, but said it will be similarly priced to the $20-$23k Honda Insight."

Connection to CR-X:

Quote :

" The Japanese automaker claims the CR-Z will bring back the kind of driving joy that hasn't been felt since the CRX last left dealer lots in 1991, saying that owners will embrace this new mild hybrid with both their hearts and minds."

Rationale/purpose of car:

Quote :

""The CR-Z is a personal sport hybrid coupe for people with a spirit of adventure and an elevated sense of responsibility toward the environment," said John Mendel, executive vice president of sales for American Honda. "It's the first hybrid designed to maximize style and fun, in addition to efficiency and economy.""

Inspiration and benchmarks:

Quote :

"Video: Honda engineer talks CR-Z, says Lotus Elise was an influence What was Honda's mindset when it created the CR-Z? If you can believe the marketing frippery in the video after the jump, it's all about "fun-to-drive." According to Terukazu Torikai, the chief engineer for chassis dynamics on the CR-Z, Honda benchmarked several vehicles during the development of its new hatch, and not only was Mini mentioned a few times, Honda drove everything from the Volkswagen Scirocco to the Lotus Elise. Torikai goes on to say that "the performance of the Elise kept on inspiring us throughout the whole development process." That bodes well from both a handling and steering perspective, but we remain lukewarm on the prospects until we finally get a stint behind the wheel. http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/19/video-honda-engineer-talks-cr-z-says-lotus-elise-was-an-influe/"

That settles it... Noen, you should swap your Elise for the CR-Z!

1/20/2010 8:15:44 AM

Quote :

""The CR-Z is a personal sport hybrid coupe for people with a spirit of adventure and an elevated sense of responsibility toward the environment," said John Mendel, executive vice president of sales for American Honda"

It's official, Honda no longer understands what sport is. Apparently they think its a tiny FWD 2 seater that weighs 2700 lbs, has 120hp and a 64/36 F/R weight distribution

1/20/2010 9:34:11 AM

1/20/2010 9:47:46 AM

"Nice cr-z. It isnt sporty but I sure do love the color!"

1/20/2010 7:20:58 PM

Seems like Honda has been Toyota-ified.

Quote :

"The 3m 08s video features the car's chief chassis engineer, Terukazu Torikai, who says the CR-Z was created with the basic concept of "fun to drive." "Since the target of this car was to realise enhanced handling we put huge emphasis on the settings of the EPS [Electric Power Steering], and set body stiffness at a similar level to that of the Civic Type R, using the base frame of the Insight in order to gain predictable control," Torikai said. "I believe that the car provides exhilarating driving pleasure," he said."

Maybe it really is fun to drive... I mean, the engineer ain't stupid, and he sure as hell isn't going to destroy his credibility/profession just for the sake of marketing?

Video in my previous post.

1/20/2010 7:48:07 PM

Without AWD, it isn't physically possible to make that car handle well given an engine hanging over the front end. It's like a Porsche 911 driven backwards.

1/20/2010 8:20:51 PM

2700 lbs?!?! My non turbo Rx-7 was 2700 lbs and it had 146hp... 25 years ago. Sure the gas mileage sucked compared to this CR-Z, but you didn't see Mazda trying to market it as fuel efficient.

1/21/2010 8:30:57 PM

What I would give to drive a beater car with >25mpg city weighing <2700lbs and with 3 digit horspowers, preferably >140hp and with some decent torque.

[Edited on January 21, 2010 at 8:41 PM. Reason : .]

1/21/2010 8:40:55 PM

i've got just what you need boss

1/21/2010 10:03:43 PM

lol.

1/21/2010 10:08:31 PM

So to summarize... No one is the least bit excited about this. Correct?

1/21/2010 11:35:28 PM

Nope.

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1/22/2010 12:10:46 AM