Quote :

"Specifically, Obama will push to increase the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit rate from 20 percent to 35 percent for families making under $85,000 a year. Families making from $85,000 to $115,000 also would see an increase in their tax credit, the statement said. "

Quote :

"At the same time, lower-income families would receive a $1.6 billion increase in child care funding, the largest one-year increase in two decades. "

Just what we need another subsidy to encourage the irresponsible breeding habits of the lower class and uneducated americans. Sure the credit will be nice for soccer mom sally but chances are she is going to have 2.1 kids anyway. For those scraping pennies already living in government assistance working 40 hours at walmart; we want to further erode the disincentive to practice family planning.

This credit would be ok I guess if it excluded those working already receiving government assistance.

1/25/2010 12:56:30 PM

This is the most racist OP, lol.

1/25/2010 12:57:37 PM

Quote :

"This is the most racist OP, lol."

actually by you calling it racist means YOU ARE the racist. The OP never labeled one racial group, however, you were stereotyping and thinking of a particular race when reading that.

Quote :

"lower class and uneducated americans"

this is not a racial group...fyi

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 1:02 PM. Reason : I, too, concur with the OP]

1/25/2010 12:59:42 PM

I concur with the OP

1/25/2010 1:02:12 PM

I'm not certain people will be having more children just to get a tax break. I mean, it's nice and all, but it would take an absolute moron to think any tax savings would make up for the total cost of a child. And if they're an absolute moron, then intelligent family planning was out the window before any legislation arrived.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 1:03 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2010 1:03:25 PM

Yeah man fuck helping out kids

fuck em

1/25/2010 1:05:22 PM

If this is just about "helping out kids," why not push the tax credit rate to 100%?

1/25/2010 1:13:20 PM

Baby steps, padawan.

1/25/2010 1:14:32 PM

Cum inside me! Obama just doubled the child tax credit! I mean, I know I'm an irresponsible, uneducated, lower class citizen, but somehow I know about the most recent tax credits! Shoot it deep!

1/25/2010 1:30:00 PM

yeah that's exactly what goes on in the minds of poor black people

you got it pegged

1/25/2010 1:32:04 PM

Quote :

"Shoot it deep!"

1/25/2010 1:34:56 PM

^^why don't you keep that racist shit out of here. There are poor people of all races and cultures.

1/25/2010 1:44:56 PM

Whatever helps you sleep at night in your Sleepnumber/IKEA bed...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_united_states#By_race.2Fethnicity_and_family_status.

The US Census declared that in 2007 12.5% of all people, including
- 8.2% white people
- 24.7% black people
- 21.5% all Hispanic people of any race, lived in poverty.

1/25/2010 2:18:50 PM

And there can't possibly be an explanation for that other than "institutionalized racism."

1/25/2010 2:22:52 PM

^^well look at that, just as I suspected...there really are white people in poverty

Also, sleep number/IKEA bed? Who's got one of those? lolz

1/25/2010 2:27:12 PM

Quote :

"Yeah man fuck helping out kids "

who said "fuck kids"???

I am sick of hearing parents who think they deserve "special" benefits or tax breaks just because they decided to have kids. There is nothing wrong with kids and I likely will have some one day also. This though is a personnal choice or irresponsible choice in some people's case to procreate. I do not see why though many feel that this entitles them to special treatment in the tax laws forcing those with no kids or who responsibly restricted their childbearing to one or two kids to pick up the slack subsidzing families who have 4, 5, 6, etc kids.

1/25/2010 2:35:09 PM

Quote :

"^^well look at that, just as I suspected...there really are white people in poverty"

Yeah, less than ten percent of White people versus one quarter of Black people.

Quote :

"And there can't possibly be an explanation for that other than "institutionalized racism.""

lol bootstraps argument incoming

Quote :

"I am sick of hearing parents who think they deserve "special" benefits or tax breaks just because they decided to have kids. There is nothing wrong with kids and I likely will have some one day also. This though is a personnal choice or irresponsible choice in some people's case to procreate. I do not see why though many feel that this entitles them to special treatment in the tax laws forcing those with no kids or who responsibly restricted their childbearing to one or two kids to pick up the slack subsidzing families who have 4, 5, 6, etc kids."

There's much more to this than irresponsible choices. Lack of comprehensive sex education in poor communities, for one.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 2:40 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2010 2:39:07 PM

1/25/2010 2:50:04 PM

Quote :

"lol bootstraps argument incoming"

What's the solution, then? How are we going to cure institutionalized racism once and for all? Print up a million dollar bill for everyone that meets some arbitrary criteria as determined by you?

1/25/2010 3:02:42 PM

You're asking for a solution to institutionalized racism? That couldn't be written in the ten thousand character limit of this forum. It involves reform at all levels and aspects. Public education, university education, crime, public attitudes, employment, housing, drug-education, criminal sentencing, police attitudes, etc.

1/25/2010 3:06:57 PM

this reminds me of the intro to Idiocracy

1/25/2010 3:08:11 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, less than ten percent of White people versus one quarter of Black people."

Are you trying to justify your racist stereotypes?

Quote :

"You're asking for a solution to institutionalized racism? That couldn't be written in the ten thousand character limit of this forum. It involves reform at all levels and aspects. Public education, university education, crime, public attitudes, employment, housing, drug-education, criminal sentencing, police attitudes, etc."

el oh el. You try too hard sometimes.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2010 3:08:24 PM

hahah are you seriously suggesting I'm racist against White people

gtfo

1/25/2010 3:08:51 PM

You are seriously racist towards blacks/African Americans.

GTFO

1/25/2010 3:10:15 PM

The lone guy looking out for Black people in this thread is racist against Black people.

Tell me more.

1/25/2010 3:12:16 PM

You make less and less sense with each new post. Glad to see nothings changed.

1/25/2010 3:16:26 PM

Quote :

" The US Census declared that in 2007 12.5% of all people, including - 8.2% white people - 24.7% black people - 21.5% all Hispanic people of any race, lived in poverty."

36,701,103*.247 = 9 million black people in poverty
46,891,456*.215 = 10 million hispanic people in poverty
198,942,886*.082 = 16 million white people in poverty

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 3:26 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2010 3:26:13 PM

Quote :

"You're asking for a solution to institutionalized racism? That couldn't be written in the ten thousand character limit of this forum. It involves reform at all levels and aspects. Public education, university education, crime, public attitudes, employment, housing, drug-education, criminal sentencing, police attitudes, etc."

You're speaking in generalities, and I want specifics. How are you going to reform public education to insure that minority children get just as good of an education as white kids? Are you going to give lesser punishments to minority criminals? Is there going to be a government mandate that requires people to not think racist thoughts? Is there going to be a law that requires employers to have a certain number of employees from each race? Is there going to be a law that requires property owners to rent to minorities at a lower price? Reforming police attitudes...really?

It sounds like a pipe dream to me, man. You're not going to pass a law that fixes this kind of thing. We have to have a broad, societal shift in attitude, which we've already had to a large degree. If you set out to make laws that elevate one group over another, you're just going to slow down the process. You'll pit one race against another which will result in even more bitterness between groups.

What we need to have is a system where everyone is treated equally under the law and where we maximize the potential of each individual. You accomplish that by getting government out of the way. The reforms we need will make it so you can start a profitable business here without spending half of your revenue on taxes and regulations. The United States needs to have manufacturing/goods creation jobs. That's how we will increase the standard of living for everyone, not just a small group of priviledged elites.

1/25/2010 3:31:09 PM

^ For education, that's easy. Get rid of county school funding through taxes and implement that tax at a state or nationwide level and distribute the funds equally.

There's a reason why school quality varies from county to county in the same state. Poorer counties are going to have less funding for schools, which results in shittier schools in those counties. We need to set a national, or at least statewide, standard that schools have to meet. Stuff like technology (# of computers per student), textbooks, maximum classroom sizes, ect. Schools that don't meet this standard either gets brought up to par or replaced.

1/25/2010 3:48:39 PM

Quote :

"36,701,103*.247 = 9 million black people in poverty 46,891,456*.215 = 10 million hispanic people in poverty 198,942,886*.082 = 16 million white people in poverty"

Are you serious

so because there are literally more white people who are poor than black people, rather than a larger percentage, you're going to try to argue that whites are somehow equal to or worse off than black people?

hey, like 95% of all native americans are poor and jobless, but since there's only like a million of them (because we killed them all) and that's LESS than the number of total white people who are poor, I guess whites are worse off!

Quote :

"You're speaking in generalities, and I want specifics."

There are literally thousands of BOOKS written on this entire subject by people more educated and more intelligent than I am. Read them.

But, I'll entertain you.

Quote :

"How are you going to reform public education to insure that minority children get just as good of an education as white kids?"

Build better schools. Why are inner-city Durham schools so shitty compared to Cary's Green Hope High School? Are Blacks just unmotivated lazy fuckups or is there something more going on?

Quote :

"Are you going to give lesser punishments to minority criminals?"

Actually, I'd mandate equal punishments, considering it's been proven empirically that Blacks receive longer sentences for the same crimes in this country.

Quote :

"Is there going to be a government mandate that requires people to not think racist thoughts?"

No, but who cares?

Quote :

"Is there going to be a law that requires employers to have a certain number of employees from each race?"

You're confusing racial quotas with affirmative action.

Quote :

"Is there going to be a law that requires property owners to rent to minorities at a lower price? Reforming police attitudes...really?"

If they got equal approval for loans based on income and status, then I'd be happy. Currently this isn't the case.

1/25/2010 3:55:08 PM

Quote :

"The lone guy looking out for Black people in this thread is racist against Black people."

Why are you "looking out for black people"? Why can't they look out for themselves? By "looking out for black people" (or any particular group) you are being inherently racist, with the idea that they somehow require your help.

This, ladies and gents, is the liberal mantra -- "We think xyz group of people is inferior, so they obviously need our help."

1/25/2010 4:06:19 PM

^ No one said they were inferior. Uh-oh...now you're the racist!!!

1/25/2010 4:10:50 PM

Because they do. It's not racist to admit that there are inequalities built into the system.

1/25/2010 4:11:59 PM

Quote :

"Are you serious so because there are literally more white people who are poor than black people, rather than a larger percentage, you're going to try to argue that whites are somehow equal to or worse off than black people? hey, like 95% of all native americans are poor and jobless, but since there's only like a million of them (because we killed them all) and that's LESS than the number of total white people who are poor, I guess whites are worse off!"

I didn't say whites are worse off than blacks. I'm saying it's ridiculous to assume that complaining about this policy is racist (against blacks) since it will affect more whites than blacks.

1/25/2010 4:15:02 PM

It will affect a larger percentage of minority populations than majority populations.

All of the arguments in this thread "welfare queens, etc" are veiled racist propaganda anyway.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 4:16 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2010 4:15:58 PM

^the only person doing any of the labeling of races is you, yet some how you think you are supporting black people by singling them out because you think they're inferior to you? You are like a whole new level of racist.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 4:19 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2010 4:18:30 PM

Spot on again, lol.

It's funny how it's always the advantaged who make the arguments that everything is equal out in the world.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 4:20 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2010 4:19:48 PM

If you only knew.

1/25/2010 4:24:52 PM

Quote :

"The lone guy looking out for Black people in this thread is racist against Black people. Tell me more. "

Quote :

"This is the most racist OP, lol. "

I do not see what race has anything to do with this....

If you really want to talk about discrimination than you could argue that this tax policy discriminates against homosexual americans that do not / can not have kids.

Quote :

"It will affect a larger percentage of minority populations than majority populations. All of the arguments in this thread "welfare queens, etc" are veiled racist propaganda anyway."

People like you are the real problem that in their do-gooder rightous mindsets actually fan the flames of racial tensions.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 5:40 PM. Reason : a]

1/25/2010 5:36:53 PM

This is nothing. SCHIP, which helps provide health care to kids, is the worst. I mean it essentially boils down to paying people to have kids that they wouldn't otherwise have. And we can't have that.

If poor kids want health care, food, or other necessities, they should really just get a job.

1/25/2010 6:08:40 PM

i for one disagree with child tax credits because it is pandering. direct assistance to poor families through food stamps, free and reduced lunch programs, community centers, etc are far more impactful than child tax credits that go to all. it's just buying off large chunks of the electorate.

1/25/2010 6:26:55 PM

After 40+ years of voting for democrats, what have Blacks got to show for it? A welfare-state induced breakdown of families.

1/25/2010 6:30:10 PM

Quote :

"This is nothing. SCHIP, which helps provide health care to kids, is the worst. I mean it essentially boils down to paying people to have kids that they wouldn't otherwise have. And we can't have that"

Even if you agree or disagree with SCHIP there is still a fundamental differnce between this and what
my OP is about. SCHIP is health coverage FOR the kids. An additional or boosted child tax credit amoung other things
does not mean that Rhonda is buying more tyco toys for her tot or Susan is running to the Gap kids to buy clothes
for her teens....

If the goal is to help "middle income" or "working class" familes then why not adjust the tax brackets to account for inflation
or further reduce the middle income brackets %, or any other wide array of options in such way to benefit ALL
americans not just disproportionatly those who whine about making ends meat while at the same time pregnant with
their 6th kid.

Quote :

"i for one disagree with child tax credits because it is pandering. direct assistance to poor families through food stamps, free and reduced lunch programs, community centers, etc are far more impactful than child tax credits that go to all. it's just buying off large chunks of the electorate. "

I think it all boils down that I should not have to pay (a higher % taxes) to subsidize a familes uncontrolled child bearing.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 7:05 PM. Reason : a]

1/25/2010 7:01:29 PM

There are all kinds of reasons why people who can't afford children have them anyway. To be clear, none of them are a desire for tax credits or welfare--this myth has been debunked several times. The biggest reason people have children, and I'm embarrassed how long it took me to realize it, is that they want to. I would wager that most of us want to have children. Some of us want to finish college/schooling of some kind, find the "one" and get married, get settled in careers, buy a house in a neighborhood with good schools, visit a fertility specialist because we've waited too long (aha), and then get down to the baby making...

But if you don't perceive that you can accomplish that stuff: never were "good" at school/college costs too much, not a lot of men looking to get married, basic job opportunities are scant let alone careers, home ownership is a fantasy/WTF is a "good school?"...then what's the wait on these children? I think we can do a lot to change the perception that achieving some of these things is impossible/improbable, but as long as we're painting poor people as uneducated, lazy irresponsible breeders, I sincerely doubt we're going to accomplish much in changing their perception.

And you are out your motherloving mind if you think a huge group of people is going to forgo children because they don't meet your standards for responsible parenting. I think there have been instances throughout history when some people have declined to willingly have sex because the circumstances were too harrowing/horrific to fathom a baby (some sort of genocide/holocaust), but otherwise, we're pretty consistent about the baby-making thing...it's kind of what we heterosexuals do...right?

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 7:23 PM. Reason : heterosexuals]

1/25/2010 7:19:45 PM

Plz explain tax system where people pay differing amounts and no one feels like they're "subsidizing" the people who pay less.

^people kill each other but that's just what we do, amirite? Surely humans are capable of rising above base animal behavior. Just because people like to fuck doesn't mean we have to put up with irresponsible breeding nor can we afford to.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 7:26 PM. Reason : Fuckin]

1/25/2010 7:20:04 PM

Quote :

"I concur with the OP "

You are as uninformed as he is then.

The child tax credit helps FAR MORE than just “poor people.”

1/25/2010 7:48:24 PM

Quote :

"This is nothing. SCHIP, which helps provide health care to kids, is the worst. I mean it essentially boils down to paying people to have kids that they wouldn't otherwise have. And we can't have that"

Even if you agree or disagree with SCHIP there is still a fundamental differnce between this and what
my OP is about. SCHIP is health coverage FOR the kids. An additional or boosted child tax credit amoung other things
does not mean that Rhonda is buying more tyco toys for her tot or Susan is running to the Gap kids to buy clothes
for her teens....

If the goal is to help "middle income" or "working class" familes then why not adjust the tax brackets to account for inflation
or further reduce the middle income brackets %, or any other wide array of options in such way to benefit ALL
americans not just disproportionatly those who whine about making ends meat while at the same time pregnant with
their 6th kid.

Quote :

"people kill each other but that's just what we do, amirite? Surely humans are capable of rising above base animal behavior. Just because people like to fuck doesn't mean we have to put up with irresponsible breeding nor can we afford to. "

Quote :

"The child tax credit helps FAR MORE than just “poor people.”"

I believe I acknowledged this.....

So what? So Stay at home Susy gets a $3,000 diamond necklace her husband bought her using the additional monies from his tax credit.

How is this helping the children.

Instead of giving additional tax credits for middle income and lower income familes why not...

- Pump up college financial aid grants

- Increase funding for public schools

or numerous other ways in which we could use this money to actually help kids middle class or disadvantaged instead
of giving their parents a "bonus" in their tax refund that could go stright to the ABC store or the Lexus dealership for all we know.

1/25/2010 8:03:18 PM

Quote :

"disco_stu: ^people kill each other but that's just what we do, amirite? Surely humans are capable of rising above base animal behavior. Just because people like to fuck doesn't mean we have to put up with irresponsible breeding nor can we afford to."

So you expect people in poverty to go childless?

I mean, I've observed what I would consider extremely irresponsible sexual behavior. I met a 26-year-old who had 7 children by 6 different women (in real life and everything! not just some dude I could gawk at on Judge Joe Brown!)...and, you know me, I think he's clearly mentally ill, but whatever...those situations are very rare. These days, most folks are having 1 to 3 children, not the 6 that the OP cited, and they're not motivated by subsidies and tax breaks (like you already noted). They just want to have children, and it's an immutable condition for most of us that normal government policy is not going to influence one way or another.

And the urge to kill is nothing like the urge procreate. That's not even a reach...it's like a crazy, outlandish leap or something.

1/25/2010 8:08:42 PM

I'm just saying that child-bearing should not be considered a right de facto simply because it's a strong animal urge.

Quote :

"They just want to have children, and it's an immutable condition for most of us that normal government policy is not going to influence one way or another."

No, they want to fuck. Even couples that can't have children will continue to fuck like rabbits. I'd be willing to wager a good half of all people in every generation were not really planned.

It's cool though, it's only a matter of time until a nasty virus or meteor thins the herd a bit. Or a good old fashioned World War.

And actually, I don't expect only people in poverty to be responsible with their child bearing. It takes more than financial preparedness to raise a child.

[Edited on January 25, 2010 at 8:24 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2010 8:22:59 PM

^Nah, I think people want to have children. While some people legitimately don't have access to birth control, a lot of people do but they choose not to use it...why do you think that is?

1/25/2010 9:27:24 PM