Some people are deluded into thinking that state gov. are somehow superior to a federal government, but the reality is that state and local gov. has less corrective forces than the federal gov., as witnessed in the recent Wake Co. debacle where decidedly unqualified people are steering the ship of the public schools.

And now we have the same situation in Texas, where not only Texas schools are affected, but every other school system that buys textbooks from those publishers.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2010/1001.blake.html

Quote :

"“I don’t care what the educational political lobby and their allies on the left say,” he declared at one point. “Evolution is hooey.” This bled into a rant about American history. “The secular humanists may argue that we are a secular nation,” McLeroy said, jabbing his finger in the air for emphasis. “But we are a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. The way I evaluate history textbooks is first I see how they cover Christianity and Israel. Then I see how they treat Ronald Reagan -- he needs to get credit for saving the world from Communism and for the good economy over the last twenty years because he lowered taxes.” Views like these are relatively common in East Texas, a region that prides itself on being the buckle of the Bible Belt. But McLeroy is no ordinary citizen. The jovial creationist sits on the Texas State Board of Education"

Quote :

"After the 2006 election, Republicans claimed ten of fifteen board seats. Seven were held by the ultra-conservatives, and one by a close ally, giving them an effective majority. Among the new cadre were some fiery ideologues; in her self-published book, Cynthia Dunbar of Richmond rails against public education, which she dubs “tyrannical” and a “tool of perversion,” and says sending kids to public school is like “throwing them into the enemy’s flames.” (More recently, she has accused Barack Obama of being a terrorist sympathizer and suggested he wants America to be attacked so he can declare martial law.) Then in 2007 Governor Rick Perry appointed Don McLeroy, a suburban dentist and longstanding bloc member, as board chairman."

Quote :

"In the case of eleventh-grade U.S. history, the group was made up of classroom teachers and history professors -- that is, until McLeroy added a man named Bill Ames. Ames -- a volunteer with the ultra- conservative Eagle Forum and Minuteman militia member who occasionally publishes angry screeds accusing “illegal immigrant aliens” of infesting America with diseases or blasting the “environmentalist agenda to destroy America” -- pushed to infuse the standards with his right-wing views"

Quote :

"On the global front, Barton and company want textbooks to play up clashes with Islamic cultures, particularly where Muslims were the aggressors, and to paint them as part of an ongoing battle between the West and Muslim extremists. Barton argues, for instance, that the Barbary wars, a string of skirmishes over piracy that pitted America against Ottoman vassal states in the 1800s, were the “original war against Islamic Terrorism.”"

Quote :

"As Barton put it, “Only majorities can expand political rights in America’s constitutional society.” Ergo, any rights people of color have were handed to them by whites -- in his view, mostly white Republican men."

Quote :

" “This critical-thinking stuff is gobbledygook,” grumbled David Bradley, an insurance salesman with no college degree, who often acts as the faction’s enforcer"

Quote :

"McLeroy piped up and chided his fellow board members, saying, “Somebody’s gotta stand up to [these] experts!” He and his allies then turned around and put forward a string of amendments that had much the same effect as the “strengths and weaknesses” language. Among other things, they require students to evaluate various explanations for gaps in the fossil record and weigh whether natural selection alone can account for the complexity of cells. This mirrors the core arguments of the intelligent design movement: that life is too complex to be the result of unguided evolution, and that the fossil evidence for evolution between species is flimsy. The amendments passed by a wide margin, something McLeroy counts as a coup. “Whoo-eey!” he told me. “We won the Grand Slam, and the Super Bowl, and the World Cup! Our science standards are light years ahead of any other state when it comes to challenging evolution!”"

fun stuff

3/13/2010 10:11:45 PM

Well, half of the world is dumber than the average person.

3/13/2010 10:15:07 PM

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

3/13/2010 10:26:13 PM

^Classic.

3/13/2010 10:29:13 PM

I don't know how the concept small government comes into play with these events. To me, this just looks like the doings of a bunch of moonbats who group logic and reason in the same category as the boogieman. I'm saddened by people who think science and religion are mutually exclusive.

3/13/2010 11:04:47 PM

^ the small government types and the states-rights (the 2 issues mentioned so far) types largely intersect

You're right to point out that this is not necessarily the case though.

3/13/2010 11:08:32 PM

The benefit of small government is not that it is any less susceptible to corruption or damaging politics, but that such damages are more easily correctable. While Wake Co.'s school board is clearly full of children at this point in time, the likelihood of them being around after the next election is vanishingly small, and getting smaller as they proceed to abuse the authority they have been given. Compare this to a nearly 90% incumbency rate in congress despite a <50% approval rating (http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php?cycle=2008 and http://www.gallup.com/poll/107242/congress-approval-rating-ties-lowest-gallup-records.aspx). California managed to recall their governor, and hell even Illinois managed to arrest their corrupt governor. Who was the last congressman you can recall that was removed from office or arrested mid term?

In addition (assuming when we speak of small government, we are not only talking about number of employees, but also scope and physical area of authority) it is easier to escape the failings of small governments, by taking advantage of the diversity of surrounding governments and options. In the case of Texas, since it is only one state (and likely to be reversed in the future) only publishers sending to that state are affected. Private schools, home schools and schools outside of the state are still able to purchase text books from other publishers and use them to offset the failings of the local government until such time as a change can be made. In addition, it is far easier to move from one state to another to escape political failings, than it is to move from one country to another.

Ultimately, the wisdom of small (both in size and scope) government can be seen in asking yourself a very simple question: "Would I want <George W Bush, Barrack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Glenn Beck, insert other hated member of opposite political views> to have the power and authority to control or dictate these things to me?"

[Edited on March 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM. Reason : asdf]

3/13/2010 11:48:51 PM

Quote :

" In the case of Texas, since it is only one state (and likely to be reversed in the future) only publishers sending to that state are affected. Private schools, home schools and schools outside of the state are still able to purchase text books from other publishers and use them to offset the failings of the local government until such time as a change can be made."

This is not accurate. This is how the system theoretically should work, but it doesn't.

Texas is the largest purchaser of textbooks, and as such, the big book publishers that sell books to districts across the country tailor their books to Texas' standards. It's actually the main reason this issue is even in the news, because of Texas' unique positions in determining book standards.

Home schools, and other districts could by from other publishers, or other revisions, at a higher cost, assuming these options are even offered (and they have the means to pay the higher amounts).

It's also overly idealistic and unrealistic to say that people can just pick up and move from location-to-location as political issues dictate, to keep the systems honest. If you just presume that people work this way, you're going to end up designing systems that are ignorant of reality.

[Edited on March 14, 2010 at 12:01 AM. Reason : ]

3/14/2010 12:00:23 AM

Quote :

"This is not accurate. This is how the system theoretically should work, but it doesn't. Texas is the largest purchaser of textbooks, and as such, the big book publishers that sell books to districts across the country tailor their books to Texas' standards. It's actually the main reason this issue is even in the news, because of Texas' unique positions in determining book standards. Home schools, and other districts could by from other publishers, or other revisions, at a higher cost, assuming these options are even offered (and they have the means to pay the higher amounts)."

Texas may be the largest purchaser of normal textbooks, but I assure you that # of evolution free books texas will buy <<<<<< # of normal science books the rest of the country and indeed the world will buy. As we see here, another benefit of many smaller governments vs one big government is one policy change can move you from a majority to a minority, quickly offsetting your stupidity. I would bet that texas, not new york will be the ones paying more for text books this time around.

It's also worth noting that the ever increasing information access capabilities of the internet means that alternatives to traditional things, whether it be publishers or editions of books, are more readily available and available at cheaper prices. Consider the purchasing of (cheaper) international editions of text books, something far more difficult before the age of the internet.

Quote :

"It's also overly idealistic and unrealistic to say that people can just pick up and move from location-to-location as political issues dictate, to keep the systems honest. If you just presume that people work this way, you're going to end up designing systems that are ignorant of reality."

People say this all the time, but I don't think it is. Americans move across the country for a mere job. Surely ensuring your child receives the best quality of education you can provide and lives under a political system conducive to freedom (however you define it) is worth a move or two? I mean to me, it seems more reasonable that if the state is sufficiently corrupt and disruptive, that I would move rather than expect and hope for a larger more powerful government to force the state to bend to my will.

3/14/2010 12:20:20 AM

Quote :

"People say this all the time, but I don't think it is. Americans move across the country for a mere job. Surely ensuring your child receives the best quality of education you can provide and lives under a political system conducive to freedom (however you define it) is worth a move or two? I mean to me, it seems more reasonable that if the state is sufficiently corrupt and disruptive, that I would move rather than expect and hope for a larger more powerful government to force the state to bend to my will. "

The majority of people stay in one area due to various things they put above rote political issues, like family, friends, their job, educational opportunities, etc.. Your answer to so-and-so doesn't like X about Y can't always be "well just move." There are too many Xes and Ys. That is a lazy answer.

3/14/2010 12:30:03 AM

The answer isn't always "well just move". As I pointed out, it is considerably easier to change small and local governments when they fail the people. However, if your local government is unresponsive to change, then yes I think moving is a perfectly valid thing to do. Or are you seriously suggesting that if North Carolina decided that all schools will now teach that "Jesus rode on dinosaurs and God Himself came down and molded the USA out of the land in His image" you would not consider moving to ensure your child has access to the correct education?

But no, the answer isn't always "just move" but in the instances where moving out of the influence of the government becomes necessary, it is far easier to move to another county or state than it is to move to another country, or worse fund an expedition to find a new land upon which to build your own country.

3/14/2010 8:55:33 AM

A little history...

Quote :

"The Great Textbook War Violent protests erupted in 1974 in Kanawha County, W.Va., when the Kanawha County school board received recommendations for new textbooks to be used in elementary schools. The new books became a lightning rod for the war between liberal and conservative values in this country. It was a culture war not unlike those we still see today."

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/podcast.html
http://download.publicradio.org/podcast/americanradioworks/podcast/arw_3_15_the_great_textbook_war.mp3

I believe it's also available via iTunes.

3/14/2010 10:23:50 AM

It may be true that people will not always "vote with their feet," but I think it's better than the alternative. The great thing about federalism is that you can have vastly different sets of laws in two different areas. This helps take into account the fact that bad laws will be made, since humans (and groups of humans) don't always make wise decisions. The problem now is that bad laws get made all the time, but they're often made at the federal level, and every single person in the country has to deal with the consequences. Plus, the bad laws hardly ever get repealed.

I think a lot on the left see "state's rights" as a cop out, but it really isn't. It's the tenth amendment.

3/14/2010 2:56:44 PM

Quote :

" Or are you seriously suggesting that if North Carolina decided that all schools will now teach that "Jesus rode on dinosaurs and God Himself came down and molded the USA out of the land in His image" you would not consider moving to ensure your child has access to the correct education?"

Obviously many people would consider moving, and many would move.

But most wouldn't be able to for various reasons, and it still wouldn't fix the root problem, which is a poor education system in the "silicon valley of the east" that is RTP. The global nature of science, technology, and business means that a cancerous system in one place will spread. Things aren't isolated like they were a couple of decades ago.

Quote :

"It may be true that people will not always "vote with their feet," but I think it's better than the alternative. The great thing about federalism is that you can have vastly different sets of laws in two different areas. This helps take into account the fact that bad laws will be made, since humans (and groups of humans) don't always make wise decisions. The problem now is that bad laws get made all the time, but they're often made at the federal level, and every single person in the country has to deal with the consequences. Plus, the bad laws hardly ever get repealed. "

I guess I can accept that you feel this way is better, the slower-moving pace of the federal gov. means it gives plenty of more intelligent people time to step in and make a change to a bad law before it gets enacted. Even if Palin were president, there's enough eyes on the processes so that she wouldn't have the ability to do nutty things like in Texas or Raleigh.

[Edited on March 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM. Reason : ]

3/14/2010 3:40:17 PM

lolz this thread.

then go live in russia you stupid fuck. they'll take good care of your ass.

3/14/2010 3:58:49 PM

^ clearly you didn't read the thread, but you're too dumb to understand it anyway.

3/14/2010 4:06:53 PM

Quote :

"But most wouldn't be able to for various reasons, and it still wouldn't fix the root problem, which is a poor education system in the "silicon valley of the east" that is RTP. The global nature of science, technology, and business means that a cancerous system in one place will spread. Things aren't isolated like they were a couple of decades ago."

The flip side of this of course being that the lack of isolation means the damaging effects of having a quick change small government are more easily offset than in the past, all while maintaining the benefits of small government. A couple decades ago, when things were more isolated, someone stuck in texas or wherever, would have found it nearly impossible to acquire a quality text book from outside the influence of the state government. There was no wikipedia, or howthingswork.com. There was no instant communication with people from all over the world and there was no just popping onto ebay to buy the international edition of your text book at 50% of local cost.

It's also worth pointing out that all of these benefits that the internet and instant global communication have brought us are in part because of a lack of government interference in these things. Texans would be in a much worse situation if the state government had the scope of authority that china does and had a state wide firewall on "doubleplusungood" websites and information.

Quote :

"the slower-moving pace of the federal gov. means it gives plenty of more intelligent people time to step in and make a change to a bad law before it gets enacted. Even if Palin were president, there's enough eyes on the processes so that she wouldn't have the ability to do nutty things like in Texas or Raleigh. "

Equally though, it means that when stupid shit doest get passed, it will take much much longer to get it corrected. See NCLB.

3/14/2010 6:02:25 PM

Quote :

"The majority of people stay in one area due to various things they put above rote political issues, like family, friends, their job, educational opportunities, etc.."

Well, see, here is another possible application of the 10% competition rule. If a state government is poorly run, then what needs to occur is a major re-adjustment of priorities towards a more libertarian form of government. One means of doing this would be to bankrupt the state, which does not require 100% of citizens to move away. Something less than 10% should do the trick.

Quote :

"Some people are deluded into thinking that state gov. are somehow superior to a federal government, but the reality is that state and local gov. has less corrective forces than the federal gov., as witnessed in the recent Wake Co. debacle where decidedly unqualified people are steering the ship of the public schools."

Less corrective forces than the federal gov.? Yes, that whole Fannie Mae debacle was nipped right in the bud. Or are you saying it is more of a disaster to screw up one book order than to throw a trillion dollars of tax payer money down a bottomless pit? It isn't like evolution can be put back through the use of supplemental materials, unlike the Iraq War which does not seem to respond to pamphlets.

To put it another way, while leaving the purchase of textbooks to the states pretty much assures Texas will occasionally make a hack of it, it guarantees that the entire country does not wake up one day with George Bush approved history books touting the benefits of liberating Iraq.

3/15/2010 1:05:41 AM