http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Teams+Up+With+Apple+Dissing+Adobe+and+Praising+HTML5/article18276.htm

Quote :

"Proponents of HTML5, a hot new web standard that adds video and audio capabilities to the HTML stable, say that it is essential to free the web from the proprietary clutches of Adobe, maker of Flash. Critics says that it's just a pretty box for another proprietary offering. They point out that while HTML5 as an open standard could support open video standards like Ogg Theora, all the industry' major players have embraced h.264 -- a proprietary video codec -- as the future of HTML5, essentially killing the hopes of widespread support or adoption of an open codec. Apple is a big fan of h.264 and a big fan of HTML5. It doesn't think much of Adobe, though. Perhaps a more important question, though, is where does Microsoft, who holds more than 90 percent of the operating system market, stand on this issue? Interestingly, in a blog to web developers, Microsoft's General Manager for Internet Explorer, Dean Hachamovitch agrees with Apple's assessment. He states that HTML5 is the "future of the web". He then proceeds to toss dirt at Adobe, commenting that their "reliability, security, and performance" haven't been so great. He then softens the blow a bit, remarking that Flash is important to "a good consumer experience on today's web" -- but only because there's not many alternatives widely available currently (most users use Internet Explorer, which doesn't currently support HTML5). Interestingly, in the talk the Microsoft exec totally ignores Microsoft's own proprietary plug-in Silverlight that it's long been trying to peddle. Microsoft and Apple agreeing on HTML5? Microsoft following "Apple's line" with the Windows Phone 7 smart phone operating system? Windows 7 being fully supported on Boot Camp? You'd think that Microsoft and Apple were old buddies, not bitter rivals. What's the world coming to?"

Oh well, guess it had to happen some day.





[Edited on April 30, 2010 at 8:35 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2010 8:35:09 PM

How many black shirts does Jobs own?

Apple and MS are not "bitter rivals".

[Edited on April 30, 2010 at 8:40 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2010 8:40:13 PM

yea you can't really be "bitter" rivals when one owns 90% of the market and the other owns less than 5%

4/30/2010 8:50:43 PM

or despite that disparity, apple having a higher market cap

4/30/2010 8:56:11 PM

which market? maybe cell phones and MP3 players, not in Operating Systems/Computer sales.

4/30/2010 9:01:44 PM

"maybe cell phones and mp3 players", as if those are small or insignificant markets.....

4/30/2010 9:07:05 PM

^^ cell phone/mp3 dollars are generally worth the same as OS/PC dollars

4/30/2010 9:15:25 PM

market cap doesn't mean anything when you're talking about Microsoft vs. Apple.

And I think the agreement is really about how much Flash sucks balls, more than any real agreement on HTML5.

4/30/2010 9:22:40 PM

yeah, but it's an easy metric to cite when declaring one company is "better" than another

but i too agree this is about html5 vs piece o shit flash

though, i'm somewhat surprised to see microsoft make these kinds of statements, given how it could easily be interpreted to dismiss the relevance of Silverlight

[Edited on April 30, 2010 at 9:27 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2010 9:25:41 PM

^^ Yep. In fact to be honest, the sudden outpouring of support for flash is somewhat surprising to me given that some of the most common browser plugins (after shitty ass tool bars) are flash blockers. I mean, I was pretty sure most of the intartubes was in agreement that flash sucks, but it was a necessary evil for the time being. Now that someone had said "enough with this shit" and ditched flash entirely though, it seems flash has become the greatest thing since sliced bread and absolutely vital to the web.

4/30/2010 9:56:08 PM

Here's my problem:

HTML5 coding to get an equivalent experience is a freaking BEAR. It would take me a week to test and troubleshoot what I can do in an hour in flash. Flash is a almost-well-developed platform with great programming tools coupled with intuitive animation so people like me without 14 years of art experience can get the job done. The biggest (if not the only) complaint is that it's resource intensive. Give it a year and hardware will close that gap.

If Adobe gets it right with flash support on phones they're going to be so ubiquitous it'll be almost impossible to bring them down - and devices that don't support their products are going to be fighting an uphill battle.

Lastly, Google and Adobe need to get straight up buddy-buddy with the partnerships. Play your cards right and vast amounts of cash will come your way.

[Edited on April 30, 2010 at 10:34 PM. Reason : a]

4/30/2010 10:32:23 PM

gates looks like he's recoiling in terror in that pic

5/1/2010 1:07:57 AM

Quote :

"HTML5 coding to get an equivalent experience is a freaking BEAR. It would take me a week to test and troubleshoot what I can do in an hour in flash. Flash is a almost-well-developed platform with great programming tools coupled with intuitive animation so people like me without 14 years of art experience can get the job done. The biggest (if not the only) complaint is that it's resource intensive. Give it a year and hardware will close that gap."

So are you saying you're a flash developer and not a web developer? I'm not sure what art experience has to do with it.

Flash has been around since the days of macromedia. Hardware is not the issue. Today's hardware is so overkill for what should be simple tasks in flash but because it's a poor platform it struggles.

5/1/2010 1:16:58 AM

^^ more like "oh you so silly"

5/1/2010 1:36:38 AM

nvm.

[Edited on May 1, 2010 at 2:41 AM. Reason : .]

5/1/2010 2:40:07 AM

Quote :

"Oh well, guess it had to happen some day. "

I guess you don't recall Steve Jobs, as interim CEO, agreeing with Bill Gates to sell MS a bunch of non-voting stock to save Apple's ass.

5/1/2010 2:57:12 AM

Quote :

"agreeing with Bill Gates to sell MS a bunch of non-voting stock to save Apple's ass."

read that...its long...but it will enlighten you. Not that it matters anymore.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/592FE887-5CA1-4F30-BD62-407362B533B9.html

5/1/2010 4:18:00 AM

Of course they both agree on this subject. This has nothing to do with Flash, and all about licensing fees for H264. For all the talk of "open standards" and moving away from proprietary formats, H264 is itself a proprietary format that needs to be licensed. And what are 2 of the companies that will be collecting licensing fees from H264? MS and Apple.

http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC/Pages/Licensors.aspx

Hmmmm, don't see Adobe anywhere on that list. So lets stop pretending that this whole dispute is about anything but $$$$$$$$$.

[Edited on May 1, 2010 at 9:52 AM. Reason : :]

5/1/2010 9:48:27 AM

Quote :

"Flash has been around since the days of macromedia. Hardware is not the issue. Today's hardware is so overkill for what should be simple tasks in flash but because it's a poor platform it struggles."

You mad 'cause Jobs locked you out of hardware acceleration until Gala matures?

5/1/2010 9:57:37 AM

Nerds are the only people who give a shit about file formats and whether they are proprietary or not. If it plays well on my devices, i don't give a flying fuck what format it is. If it's the best format for my users and not too expensive to use, I will pay to use it.

This kind of practical thinking does dot appeal to internet nerds, though. It's a fucking file format, not a religion.

5/1/2010 12:10:30 PM

Quote :

"Hmmmm, don't see Adobe anywhere on that list. So lets stop pretending that this whole dispute is about anything but $$$$$$$$$."

You don't see them trying joining together to try and replace google. If Adobe had actually tried to keep up with MS/Mac/Google/etc. maybe they wouldn't have everyone trying to go around their format. It's about $texas, but it's not about stealing adobe's $texas, it's about making $texas from selling us better products.

5/1/2010 12:21:26 PM

microsoft and apple dont make that much money on the licensing anyhow. both osx and windows (which combined are 99.999999999% of the target html5 market) come with licensed codecs for playback of h264. The only people who are going to need to pay licensing are makers of set top boxes and other devices with embeded oses. I mean are you gonna get all butt hurt because blu ray player makers have to shell out to license both vc1 and h264?

And to top it all off, ogg theora is a huge pile of shit. The whole bitchfest about video codecs is a non-issue to anyone except whiny baby open sores sperglords.

[Edited on May 1, 2010 at 1:17 PM. Reason : r]

5/1/2010 1:16:17 PM

Quote :

"The whole bitchfest about video codecs is a non-issue to anyone except whiny baby open sores sperglords."

Or people who like Firefox. That's the whole sticking point, honestly -- you've got Microsoft which is fine with h264, Apple who is fine with it, Google who is seemingly fine with it (probably because they'll find some way to sneak in without having to pay licensing due to using Webkit and even if they didn't can more than afford whatever licensing fees would be attached. It's Firefox that's the problem.

Of course, Flash plays h264 (and honestly, the h264 converter bundled with CS4 is probably the best I've ever used) so it's really not like a switch to h264 is going to kill Flash at all, especially since the <video> tag implementation doesn't support any sort of DRM.

5/1/2010 1:22:12 PM

Firefox and any other browser can do video playback via the OS's video subsystem. There is litterally no reason not to do that anyway, except for some dumb gay open sores bullshit.

5/1/2010 1:53:46 PM

Quote :

"especially since the <video> tag implementation doesn't support any sort of DRM."

That is what everyone is conveniently still ignoring.

5/1/2010 2:21:04 PM

Quote :

"You mad 'cause Jobs locked you out of hardware acceleration until Gala matures?"

Huh? I'm not adobe, why do I care?

5/1/2010 3:18:49 PM