Kudos to Ms Knapp. one of the comments below the article sums it up best:

Quote :

"In my humble opinion, I don't think anyone who is gay or lesbian has to choose between their faith and their inate sexual orientation. . .you can have both and thrive in both. The problem is that others don't think you can have both. . .so you just have to realize that this is a problem for them based on their belief system, not yours."

Other comments below the article are just sad

http://idek.net/1Rj8

Quote :

"Move over Ricky Martin. The hunky Latin-pop singer who announced last month that he is gay has company: veteran Christian musician Jennifer Knapp. In interviews with Christianity Today and Advocate.com, Knapp, 33, a Dove Award-winning folk rock singer, acknowledges that the rumors are true: she's in a same-sex relationship. "I don't want to come off as somebody who's shirking the truth in my life," she tells Christianity Today. She calls the rumors that she left music for a seven-year sabbatical because she was a lesbian ... "... a straw (in my decision), but there were many straws on the camel's back at the time. I'm certainly in a same-sex relationship now, but when I suspended my work, that wasn't even really a factor. I had some difficult decisions to make and what that meant for my life and deciding to invest in a same-sex relationship, but it would be completely unfair to say that's why I left music." Knapp says in the interview that she's "absolutely" felt pressure to choose between her faith and her gay feelings. "Everyone around me made it absolutely clear that this is not an option for me, to invest in this other person, and for me to choose to do so would be a denial of my faith." Scripture, she adds, has been her salvation. "The Bible has literally saved my life. I find myself between a rock and a hard place -- between the conservative evangelical who uses what most people refer to as the 'clobber verses' to refer to this loving relationship as an abomination, while they're eating shellfish and wearing clothes of five different fabrics, and various other Scriptures we could argue about. I'm not capable of getting into the theological argument as to whether or not we should or shouldn't allow homosexuals within our church. There's a spirit that overrides that for me, and (that is) what I've been gravitating to in Christ and why I became a Christian in the first place." In the Advocate interview, Knapp says she knows her coming out is "going to be shocking and feel like a betrayal to some people" who have been fans. Still, "I'm quite comfortable to live with parts of myself that don't make sense to you." Her new CD Letting Go is set for release on May 10, and she has begun touring, but Knapp tells Christianity Today that her public revelation is not motivated by political activism. "I'm in no way capable of leading a charge for some kind of activist movement. I'm just a normal human being who's dealing with normal everyday life scenarios. As a Christian, I'm doing that as best as I can. The heartbreaking thing to me is that we're all hopelessly deceived if we don't think that there are people within our churches, within our communities, who want to hold on to the person they love, whatever sex that may be, and hold on to their faith.""

[Edited on May 3, 2010 at 9:37 PM. Reason : damn url]

5/3/2010 9:36:24 PM

Wow...found this comment out of all of the judgements from the holier-than-thou's...awesome way to sum up the situation:

Quote :

":KEM0000 (0 friends, send message) wrote: 4/14/2010 6:14:25 PM It is absolutely ludicrous to claim that Homosexuality is a choice. Why on earth would anyone choose to be in a minority where we are constantly being persecuted, judged, threatened, harassed and in some cases even murdered?? I spent 30 years trying to deny who I truly was because I didn't want to be in this minority. But, in the end, I couldn't deny it anymore. I wasn't happy. I couldn't worship God with an open heart because I wasn't being open with myself. I had to look into myself and realize that I indeed was born this way and If I was, then that is how God made me and by not being myself then I was, in a way, denying God. I truly believe God made me the way that I am. I have never been happier in my life than I am with my Partner and our wonderful son. This is what God had in store for my life and I just wish It hadn't taken so long for me to realize it. So, I say, good for Jennifer Knapp. It's nice to know that there are others just like me who love and worship God and live truthful lives."

5/3/2010 9:38:49 PM

And one more quote from the comments to think about:

Quote :

"separker02 (0 friends, send message) wrote: 4/15/2010 8:39:44 AM As a pastor who has been fortunate enough to have relationships with many LGBT persons, I can tell you that there is no choice being made regarding orientation; people are created to be who they are, regardless of our societal - or theological - prejudices. The question is whether we allow people to be authentic, or require them to hide in order to make ourselves feel better. I could launch into a lengthy description of how scripture does NOT proscribe same-sex relationships, but most readers would just reject it out of hand. So instead, I'd ask that anti-gay folks consider a couple of questions. First, assuming you are heterosexual, when did you make that choice? Second, if tomorrow you awoke and someone told you being heterosexual was wrong, how easy would it be for your orientation to be changed by therapy, drugs, societal opprobrium, etc. Third, there are many denominations now recognizing the sacred worth of LGBT persons; does that mean you can still enforce your particular religious views in the secular realm, refusing to allow equal rights for LGBT persons? I certainly see the day coming when we will realize that anti-gay actions are just as wrong as racism, sexism, etc. Thank God for giving us minds and hearts that can be changed through love."

This thread is for Supplanter, Evan, and others who have had to deal with people who have used religion to get away with their hatred of something they don't (or can't) understand.

5/3/2010 9:43:22 PM

EPIC TRIPLE POST SELF CONVERSATION

5/3/2010 9:50:38 PM

Quote :

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

-Leviticus 20:13

Maybe it doesn't count for lesbians, though. Shit, it probably doesn't even count for men, if we're using the "nothing in the old testament matters except the things we choose to believe based on some arbitrary criteria" version of Christianity.

5/3/2010 10:38:41 PM

This just in: Christians are self-righteous hypocritical assholes.

More at eleven.

5/3/2010 10:48:08 PM

Quoting the bible to support Christian beliefs, when talking to non-Christians, is like quoting the constitution to a Martian. i.e. there's nothing to support it except itself, and its only important to half of the conversants.

5/3/2010 10:52:54 PM

I could honestly care less about sexual orientation. If a dude wants to have sex with a woman, a man, a sheep, or his couch..... could not matter any less to me.

I think the whole point here is that Christianity expressly forbids homosexuality, so to identify oneself as a homosexual and a Christian just doesn't compute. It's like being a vegan because you don't believe in killing animals, but then running a butcher shop. It just doesn't compute.

I also realize people lie, steal, kill, commit adultry, etc all the times who call themselves Christians. I think the main thing there (and this is my big problem with Christianity) is that as long as you're sorry for those things and are making strides to not do them anymore, you're still within the confines of the Bible. In other words, it might be "ok" to steal something as long as you are sorry for it, but once you identify yourself as a thief and cease to recognize stealing as being wrong, then that's pretty much outside the bounds of Christianity.

I know it's a fine line, and I really don't agree with some most of Chrisitanity, but I can understand how other people who claim to be Christians would have a problem with someone who is openly gay claiming to be a Christian.

5/3/2010 11:13:24 PM

Quote :

"could care less"

5/3/2010 11:15:49 PM

Quote :

"-Leviticus 20:13 Maybe it doesn't count for lesbians, though. Shit, it probably doesn't even count for men, if we're using the "nothing in the old testament matters except the things we choose to believe based on some arbitrary criteria" version of Christianity."

did you learn nothing from me spanking you around in the other thread on this issue? the purpose of jesus dying was to establish a new covenant. christians are not called to obey any of the laws from the old covenant.

5/4/2010 12:30:42 AM

Quote :

"I think the whole point here is that Christianity expressly forbids homosexuality, so to identify oneself as a homosexual and a Christian just doesn't compute."

its true that paul writes about homosexuality but whether that makes it a sin is debatable. even if it is a sin that does not preclude anyone from being a christian, all christians are sinners. even if homosexuality is a sin it would not be any kind of extra special sin that is worse than others. all people are sinners, and jesus repeatedly stood beside those set aside by society. homosexuals should be welcome in the church as much as any other person.

5/4/2010 12:35:24 AM

Quote :

"I think the whole point here is that Christianity expressly forbids homosexuality, so to identify oneself as a homosexual and a Christian just doesn't compute."

The Old Testament expressly forbids eating shrimp too but that doesn't seem to stop most people.

Anyway, I thought the whole point of the New Testament was we didn't have to follow Leviticus' crackpot rules anymore.

5/4/2010 12:38:11 AM

Quote :

"did you learn nothing from me spanking you around in the other thread on this issue? the purpose of jesus dying was to establish a new covenant. christians are not called to obey any of the laws from the old covenant."

I think you're becoming delusional again. I know how Christianity works. The old laws don't count anymore, supposedly. The problem is that God, according to the Bible, said that killing someone for being gay was not only morally acceptable, but required. I don't care that he came in later and said, "oh you can just ignore these now." He should have said that, and included "...and those laws before were wrong, I messed up/I didn't even write those." It has never been morally acceptable, at any point in human history, to execute someone for being gay. That's why if you reject the old law, you should reject the new law (or covenant, that thing that says "do whatever you want as long as you communicate with me telepathically and say you believe in me...") because it all came down from the same bloodthirsty god that derives pleasure from human suffering.

5/4/2010 1:21:33 AM

^haha, that made me think of this old clip (little more than a chain e-mail, but it still makes the point):



Also, I have trouble believing that if there is a God that he ever cared about eating shrimp/changed his mind about it. But then again, besides the philosophical arguments, I have trouble believing that a religion that copied so much from earlier religions (when to have christmas, to have a religion centered around a demi-god that returned from the dead, to have a god that can do the water to wine trick, to involve immaculate conception, and so many others) that any particular surviving rules from this particular bronze age mythology (assuming they were all translated 100% correctly which obviously they all aren't) is something worth rigidly basing our daily lives on or our government rules on. It is kind of like what GrumpyGOP pointed out in the thread discussing Voodoo, we have trouble believing it because we saw it being formed and stealing from other religions in modern history. Just b/c Christianity didn't happen in front of our eyes, we still know it stole directly from many religions that pre-dated it that we dismiss as mythology, so its rules on shrimp, gays, the role of women, or anything else are hard to take seriously.

Since the OP mentioned me by name, I've added a few more of my thoughts. These days I take the cheap way out, calling myself an agnostic, and believing more in doing good than following God, but that we have to have political fights over what founding fathers Texas is okay with putting in the nations text books b/c they feel some advocated for separation between church and state too heavily is ridiculous.

All that said I see nothing extra-hypocritical about being gay and religious. Everyone who practices religion makes judgment calls about which rules are fake, which are metaphors, and which are real. So it is no more hypocritical to be religious and decide the anti-gay rules don't count than any other rule.

5/4/2010 1:22:13 AM

Quote :

"This just in: Christians are self-righteous hypocritical assholes."

It's funny, because I see plenty of self-righteousness and assholitude out of the atheists and agnostics (d537r0y3r, for instance). Hypocrisy is a pretty common flaw, too, especially among people who believe in things. Hard to be a hypocrite when you don't believe anything, I guess.

Is it...could it be...do you think maybe people, in general, are just dicks? That what unites us through every difference in race, gender, orientation, religion, class, and nationality is one common thread that we're just a bunch of bastards?

Face it. We're a species of semi-trained hairless monkeys who would just as soon be throwing our feces at one another but who have somehow lucked in to a system that sets our innate dickishness at odds with one another's in such a way to create a balance of assholery. And it is in this precarious balance that we find some semblance of civilization.

At least Christianity looks on us and says, "Yeah, you guys are a bunch of pricks. But it's OK. We can try to help."

[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 3:24 AM. Reason : ]

5/4/2010 3:22:13 AM

Quote :

"It is absolutely ludicrous to claim that Homosexuality is a choice. Why on earth would anyone choose to be in a minority where we are constantly being persecuted, judged, threatened, harassed and in some cases even murdered??"

plenty of people make decisions like this every day all over the world regarding religious beliefs. does that all of a suidden make religion genetic, too?

5/4/2010 7:00:45 AM

Quote :

"It's funny, because I see plenty of self-righteousness and assholitude out of the atheists and agnostics (d537r0y3r, for instance). Hypocrisy is a pretty common flaw, too, especially among people who believe in things. Hard to be a hypocrite when you don't believe anything, I guess."

Sorry, I have all of the evidence of the natural world on my side. I can afford to be smug.

5/4/2010 8:52:45 AM

Quote :

"I think you're becoming delusional again. I know how Christianity works. The old laws don't count anymore, supposedly. The problem is that God, according to the Bible, said that killing someone for being gay was not only morally acceptable, but required. I don't care that he came in later and said, "oh you can just ignore these now." He should have said that, and included "...and those laws before were wrong, I messed up/I didn't even write those." It has never been morally acceptable, at any point in human history, to execute someone for being gay."

It is curious isn’t it? Why would a perfect omniscient god create one set of laws, then change them a day later (in god time)?

It’s almost like the Bible was written by humans or something...

5/4/2010 8:57:16 AM

Quote :

"At least Christianity looks on us and says, "Yeah, you guys are a bunch of pricks. But it's OK. We can try to help.""

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

Oh wait, you were serious? Let me laugh even harder.

5/4/2010 9:03:52 AM

Bout' time you chimed in with the spite.

5/4/2010 9:09:46 AM

Quote :

"Oh wait, you were serious? Let me laugh even harder."

Ever read?

5/4/2010 9:16:33 AM

Quote :

"Sorry, I have all of the evidence of the natural world on my side. I can afford to be smug."

True, but shouldn't you get back to raping every female you encounter in order to pass on your genetic information?

5/4/2010 9:18:06 AM

The top banner is for an interracial gay dating site, and the bottom banner is for christismylife.com

Coincidence?

5/4/2010 9:21:40 AM

Quote :

"True, but shouldn't you get back to raping every female you encounter in order to pass on your genetic information?"

Are you suggesting that the only thing that keeps us from tearing each other apart like animals is Christianity?

5/4/2010 9:33:31 AM

Quote :

"The only thing that keeps us tearing each other apart like animals is Christianity"

I fixed that for you.

5/4/2010 9:39:37 AM

God help her if she's wearing a cotton-poly blended shirt.

5/4/2010 9:46:14 AM

good for her.

5/4/2010 1:51:14 PM

Quote :

"The top banner is for an interracial gay dating site, and the bottom banner is for christismylife.com Coincidence?"

lol, ads.

5/4/2010 6:56:57 PM

Quote :

"I fixed that for you."

This despite the preponderance of evidence that people have and will continue to kill and destroy each other over any convenient excuse.

5/4/2010 7:08:04 PM

What a shitty West Wing clip. While the Martin Sheen might give idealistic statists a hard on for how wise politicians should govern us all, his portrayal of the nature of politics is about as accurate a snapshot of Washington DC as the Dukes of Hazzard was of rural life in the late 70s South.

5/4/2010 8:23:15 PM

^well, I hope I didn't oversell the clip by calling it as bad as a chain e-mail

5/4/2010 8:26:56 PM

Fair enough.

5/4/2010 8:30:58 PM

Times Square Car Bomber comes out of the closet

5/4/2010 9:08:42 PM

Quote :

"Sorry, I have all of the evidence of the natural world on my side. I can afford to be smug."

Oh, cool. I didn't realize that the rule was "Don't be a shithead, unless you're pretty sure you're right."

Quote :

"The only thing that keeps us tearing each other apart like animals is Christianity"

So without Christianity in particular the world would be a happy, peaceful place?

5/5/2010 1:06:54 PM

At first I was like, "Who is Christian Singer, and why does this justify a soap box thread?"


Then i realized Christian Singer wasn't someone's name.

5/5/2010 1:28:38 PM

Quote :

"Oh, cool. I didn't realize that the rule was "Don't be a shithead, unless you're pretty sure you're right.""

Yep, that's the rule.

Quote :

"So without Christianity in particular the world would be a happy, peaceful place?"

Pretty much. We sure as hell wouldn't have troops in Iraq right now, would we? And I can't imagine too many people would be opposing homosexuality or abortions in America.

5/5/2010 1:40:20 PM

if there was no Christianity, the Jews and Muslims in the Middle East would all be friends

5/5/2010 1:43:46 PM

I learned from this thread that Muslims are very tolerant of Homosexuality.

5/5/2010 2:01:16 PM

Blaming religion for strife is like blaming guns for killings.

5/5/2010 2:10:49 PM

That point is completely lost on people like God.

he actually would blame guns for killings.

5/5/2010 2:12:16 PM

Quote :

"We sure as hell wouldn't have troops in Iraq right now, would we?"

What does Christianity have to do with the Iraq war? I've heard a lot of supposed reasons we're over there:

oil
revenge
daddy issues
the military-industrial complex
bad intelligence
Jewish lobbying
imperialism

...but I've not yet heard anybody say, "We invaded Iraq because of Jesus."

Quote :

"And I can't imagine too many people would be opposing homosexuality or abortions in America."

Well good, because those are the only issues that divide people here.

Personally I was way more opposed to abortion and homosexuality when I was agnostic than I am now, but I realize that's probably not the norm.

5/5/2010 2:12:24 PM

Quote :

"What does Christianity have to do with the Iraq war? I've heard a lot of supposed reasons we're over there: oil revenge daddy issues the military-industrial complex bad intelligence Jewish lobbying imperialism ...but I've not yet heard anybody say, "We invaded Iraq because of Jesus.""

That was an indictment of all religion, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quote :

"Personally I was way more opposed to abortion and homosexuality when I was agnostic than I am now, but I realize that's probably not the norm."

That's kind of pointless, isn't it? Were you opposed to it on moral grounds or something?

5/5/2010 2:17:45 PM

Quote :

"And I can't imagine too many people would be opposing homosexuality or abortions in America"

so less people in America opposing homosexuality or abortions = the world is happy and peaceful

got it

5/5/2010 2:19:56 PM

Pro-life and homophobia aren't confined to the religious. Not by a long-shot.

5/5/2010 2:23:15 PM

What are some non-religious reasons for opposing homosexuality?

I mean... I guess if you're just an unapologetic bigot...

5/5/2010 2:25:39 PM

don't you mean non christian reasons for opposing homosexuality?

5/5/2010 2:26:47 PM

"I don't hate homosexuals, but I just don't think two men should be allowed to marry. Think of the children!"

This is the overwhelming rhetoric of people who oppose gay marriage.

5/5/2010 2:27:50 PM

And then I'd ask "Why?"

5/5/2010 2:30:12 PM

God whats the difference in Christians opposing homosexuality and Muslims opposing homosexuality?

5/5/2010 2:34:35 PM

Not sure, I would guess the punishment they feel should be applied to the homosexual.

5/5/2010 2:35:37 PM