Is this a copperhead or a water snake? I thought I knew better, but his head isn't as angular as I'm used to seeing (though it was relatively arrow shaped), his eyes didn't look "mean" (yeah yeah, technical term), and it was hard to make out any distinctive pits: He certainly struck like he meant business, though I didn't see any fangs extended when I viewed this full size (pardon the oof image):

I know this guy isn't poisonous. Garter snake of some sort?

6/1/2010 6:55:08 PM

The top one is a NON venomous northern watersnake or a hognose. I'm no expert though. My friend in wilmington i wanted to slap after supposedly killing one of these, thinking it was a copperhead.

6/1/2010 7:15:18 PM

I'm pretty sure its not a hognose. Helped raise one way back when I was thinking maybe watersnake. It flattened its head and hissed, and struck fairly quickly. It just seemed aggressive for a non-venomous snake. Just wanted to make sure

6/1/2010 7:22:33 PM

It is my professional opinion that it is a snake.

6/1/2010 8:06:29 PM

Who cares, kill it anyway.

6/1/2010 8:19:32 PM

Although the head and skin pattern are all wrong, it looks enough like a copperhead that I'd still whack it if I found it crawling around my house. You can never be too careful...

6/1/2010 8:40:07 PM

This is a copperhead. Notice how "mean" its eye looks. Most of the ones I've seen around here are around this color. Some I've seen a little further west take on a reddish color with the same general pattern and size.

To me it look like a water snake to me.

The second one is a garter snake.

[Edited on June 1, 2010 at 9:19 PM. Reason : l]

6/1/2010 9:17:30 PM

paging [/user]upside-down

6/2/2010 12:15:09 AM

The top one, along with the second, is a harmless water snake, It looks like a northern, but there are a good number of HARMLESS water snakes in NC that look similar. Also, yes the last is a garter snake (eastern or something like that)

If you see a cottonmouth or any actual venomous snake, they are quite distinct looking. The triangular head method is pretty accurate once you've compared a few in person. Don't be a pussy and fuck with them so you feel tough, they are very easy to kill, and even if they get you, your life isn't even in much risk from the snakes around here. The neurotoxin venom is what really fucks you up, and you have to let one of those tiny coral snakes get a good strike first. If you die from one in NC, you just might get famous since they are pretty much non-existent in this state

6/2/2010 3:28:21 AM

Quote :

"The top one, along with the second, is a harmless water snake, It looks like a northern, but there are a good number of HARMLESS water snakes in NC that look similar. Also, yes the last is a garter snake (eastern or something like that)"

this

cottonmouths are short and fat and dark

6/2/2010 7:44:41 AM

Quote :

"The triangular head method is pretty accurate once you've compared a few in person."

Not really... Have you ever seen a coral snake? Not a triangular head. There are plenty of snakes that have triangular shapes heads that aren't venomous, i.e.:





The best method for identifying pit vipers (seeing as you're more likely to see these in NC than a coral snake) is to look at the top of their head by their nose... There's a sharp edge, like a 90 degree angle. And the fact that they have pits and nostrils... but you might have to get a little too close for comfort to see those.



Also, the best way to identify a copperhead is they have "saddles" on their back (or hourglasses I guess you could say)... However, I think when you look into the Southern vs Northern vs Western (?) copperhead you see differences as far as the saddles being connected and things like that. They also get their name from, well, having a coppery shade on the top of their heads.

Honestly, if you see a copperhead - don't freak out! In my experience with them (which was close to 2 years) they aren't the type to automatically try to come up and strike at you. Most of them seemed to just want to get the F away.

So my point is, if you see a copperhead, leave it alone and let it go away.

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 8:07 AM. Reason : clarification]

6/2/2010 8:06:09 AM

There are only four venomous snakes in NC. It's a whole lot easier to learn to identify them than it is to try to learn to identify all the non-venomous ones.
- Rattlesnakes - Duh, it has a rattler. There are a few different ones (pygmy, canebrake, eastern timber), but they all have rattlers.
- Coral snakes - It's pretty obvious when you see one that it's either a coral snake or a scarlet king snake. Just remember that if the red bands touch the yellow bands it is a coral snake; if not it's a scarlet king. When in doubt, take a pic and leave it alone.
- Copperhead - That thing I posted up there.
- Water Moccasin - That thing that other dude posted up there.

If it's not one of those four it's not venomous.

6/2/2010 9:30:00 AM

Quote :

"Who cares, kill it anyway."

6/2/2010 11:05:48 AM

They call this snake the Black Mamba. Very dangerous. He has been known to rip out the hearts of his opponents and rumor is he is about to unleash his fury on the greater Boston area. No one who has been bitten by a Black Mamba has survived. Ever.

6/2/2010 12:27:27 PM

Quote :

"No one who has been bitten by a Black Mamba has survived."

NO WAI? And somehow that's the exact same number of intelligent people that care about the NBA. Strange how things work out like that.

6/2/2010 1:20:38 PM

Katelyn Faber survived, amirite?

6/2/2010 1:37:16 PM

Snake id:





Snake ego:





Snake super-ego:

6/2/2010 2:48:35 PM

Okay, again. In NC, you will not find a coral snake. Yes, I have seen them. Also, I've found several scarlet kings and the normal scarlet snakes. I've seen copperheads, cottonmouths, timber rattlesnakes and pretty much anything else you can name, in person, in the wild.

The picture you posted of the brown water snake is very misleading. These I have also caught before, and the snake in your picture is not the norm. It almost looks damaged.

Looking for a triangular head does work. Those pictures you posted are not good representations of how they appear on the ground. Once you begin annoying even non-venomous snakes, the head flattens and widens so it appears larger. The angle will never be as sharp and pronounced as a venomous snake (obv. the coral snake is different, but I think most people don't fuck with red, black and yellow snakes.)

Copperhead


Nothern


How brown water snakes actually look:

6/2/2010 5:25:27 PM

^wtf? how the hell does a random user happen to find and post one of my brown water snake photos?

well anyway. for the user with <1000 posts...yes, you CAN find corals in NC. just because they're rare doesn't mean you can't find them. so get outta here with that bullshit.

Skack - don't forget that there are also scarlet snakes, but the same rule is good to follow. Generally (but not always), the scarlets and scarlet kings have a white band, not a yellow band. It's more common for scarlet kings to have yellow bands in Florida, but scarlets pretty much always have white bands.

back to the OP. 100%, first snake is northern water snake, second snake is eastern garter snake, but several people have already gotten it right, just reiterating.

If you want to be able to distinguish the species of water snake found in NC, here are some things that are good to know:

a) there are 4 species of "water snakes" in the state, and i say "water snakes" because there are many other species within the state that are closely associated with aquatic habitats. the 4 "water snakes" are the northern water snake (Nerodia sipedon), the banded water snake (Nerodia fasciata), the redbelly water snake (Nerodia erythrogaster), and the brown water snake (Nerodia taxispilota).

b) the two species of the four listed above that are most difficult to differentiate at a glance are the northern water snake and the banded water snake. but there are a couple of things that could help you tell the difference. The banding pattern on northern water snakes disconnects from the dorsal pattern as you look towards the posterior. The banding pattern on the banded water snake remains contiguous with the dorsal pattern across the extent of the body. Unfortunately, there are always exceptions to the rule, and on top of that the older individuals have a pattern that obscures as the snake gets a darker overall coloration. But more than anything, the part of the state should tell you what species you're looking at. Throughout the mountains and most (if not all) of the piedmont, you're looking at the northern water snake. The banded water snake is more of a sandhills/coastal species.

c) while the redbelly superficially looks like both northerns and bandeds, it has a plain colored belly, usually ranging in color from orange to red.

d) the head on the brown water is totally different from the other 3 species. more elongated with eyes positioned more towards the snout when looked at in comparison with the others. Aside from that, the pattern is pretty much always obvious and very squared.

e) to distinguish from copperheads, remember to look for the hourglass. Sure, aberrations in pattern exist, but the vast majority of the time, this will get you by. Water snakes have a dark banding pattern that is wider down the center of the back, while on copperheads the darker pattern is wider on the sides.

f) cottonmouths are closely related to copperheads, but are more likely to be found in the habitat of water snakes (water, durr). But still, the cottonmouths don't range very far outside the coastal plain.

g) colors are usually a bad thing to go by when describing certain snake species since so many have SO MUCH variation.

Northern water snake:


Banded water snake:
young

adult (pattern obscures)


Redbelly water snake: (notice how the pattern really fades on adults)


Brown water snake:


cottonmouth or water moccasin:


copperhead:



Now for garter snakes, there is only one species in NC, the eastern garter snake (Thamnophis sirtalis). They are highly variable, from checkered patterns to stripes to patternless, from blue to green to red to black. The only thing they could really be confused with is a ribbon snake (Thamnophis sauritus), but they're smaller, more slender, cleanly striped, and have a little patch of white just in front of their eyes.

Eastern garter snake:
red, checkered, with stripes



green


normals, cuddlebuddies



Eastern ribbon snake:



summary:

TOO LONG; DO NOT READ

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 11:34 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 2, 2010 at 11:36 PM. Reason : .]

6/2/2010 11:29:56 PM

^ Google image search...Yes, the official range of the eastern coral snake is partially within North Carolina. You haven't found one, neither have I. Hardly anyone has.

6/3/2010 12:24:09 PM

Quote :

"Who cares, kill it anyway."

Must be a lot of mouse and rat lovers on TWW

6/3/2010 2:07:42 PM

There sure are a lot of people that like to show off their knowledge of snakes.

If I see a snake, I'm not going to sit there and examine it's features while it stares at me. I'm running to the house to get a shovel or a gun and killin that SOB.

6/3/2010 3:16:17 PM

Same, except I just bang on the ground and scare it off. Eat the mice, my reptilian friends.
Also don't kill spiders outside of my house unless they're black widows or really fucking big wolf spiders. Eat the mosquitoes, my arachnid friends.

Inside the house, sorry friends, you die.

6/3/2010 3:29:17 PM

^yeah pretty much.

[Edited on June 3, 2010 at 4:14 PM. Reason : k]

6/3/2010 4:14:02 PM

Jen, I'm disappointed that you brought this to TWW.

6/3/2010 4:31:09 PM

This whole thread gives me the creepers. Thread title should have been "snake id kill"

6/3/2010 6:24:03 PM

so i'm doing some field work right now in eastern wildlife preserves and coastal marshes and canals, can i get a quick bullet point of what to avoid? I mean I stay away from snakes in general, but what types of places do they like to hide?

6/3/2010 6:56:18 PM

Quote :

"If I see a snake, I'm not going to sit there and examine it's features while it stares at me. I'm running to the house to get a shovel or a gun and killin that SOB."

Why?
Are you scared?
Ignorant?
Trying to prove something?

Do you actively seek to kill all non-human animals that you encounter?

6/3/2010 10:10:13 PM

I only kill creepy animals.

6/3/2010 10:55:37 PM

Quote :

"so i'm doing some field work right now in eastern wildlife preserves and coastal marshes and canals, can i get a quick bullet point of what to avoid? I mean I stay away from snakes in general, but what types of places do they like to hide?"

I think right now is the time when you're more likely to find them out and about sunning than hiding, to be honest...

6/4/2010 8:33:11 AM

If I ever come across a snake you will, very shortly thereafter, be able to ID it as dead

6/4/2010 9:00:34 AM

oh shush, nick, lol

Both snakes were in the mountains, and yes, the top one (which has now been id'd as a water snake) did flatten its head and hiss.

6/4/2010 9:27:44 AM

lol @ people afraid of things they don't understand

i am afraid of nothing in the sense that a creature's very existence does not scare me

example: a lion lying in the sun doesn't scare me in the slightest, while a lion attempting to eat me scares the bejeebus out of me...it's silly to be afraid of a snake because it's a snake, but i guess that's why they call them "irrational" fears

6/4/2010 9:49:32 AM

The fact that the mere presence of a spider makes me freeze in trepidation is an irrational fear is not lost on me.


Snakes don't bother me a bit though. Yesterday there was a beautiful ~4' long black snake chilling on my porch as I was going to my car. I thought it was pretty cool.

Often times I'll see a mutated wolf spider chilling on the porch, and once I recover enough to move again, I will either exit or enter the house from another door rather than get close to said zombie wolf spider because it will eat me.

6/4/2010 10:12:42 AM

i would assume that everyone has irrational fears...maybe i haven't found mine, yet

6/4/2010 10:23:16 AM

Oh hi! I let myself in.


Where are we going?


I used to love screwing with these snakes as a kid. They'll run when you chase them, then get all brave when you stop and attack. You can snap their necks by cracking them like a whip. My grandfather kept one at the hog bar that got up to 6 or 7 feet long. I love the way they shine in the sunlight.

6/4/2010 10:36:07 AM

my corn is right at 6' long (she just turned 15 years old!)

6/4/2010 10:42:40 AM

^^thats a king snake BTW

6/4/2010 2:18:32 PM

Here's my obligatory post for the thread.

6/4/2010 8:18:53 PM

According to the exterminator guy on tv venomous snakes have cat like slit eyes whereas nonvenomous snakes have round pupils. err... don't hold me to that though.

6/4/2010 10:17:51 PM

We were up in the mountains last weekend, and some jackasses camping near the falls killed a northern water snake and played with it.

6/5/2010 11:33:17 AM

the round pupil vs slit pupils only works with with venemous snakes in NC region...except for the coral snake. If you're in Africa, for example, you will not want to go by the pupils.

The slit pupils works for most (if not all) pit vipers though.

6/7/2010 10:57:03 AM

yeah, if you go by the round/slit pupil or round/triangular head rule, this snake should be harmless.



one bite has enough venom to kill 12 people. If you're bitten by one of these, you got one hour to get antivenin or you dead.

good thing the black mamba is not found in the US.

[Edited on June 7, 2010 at 11:13 AM. Reason : .]

6/7/2010 11:13:26 AM

But that's a while snake...

6/7/2010 11:42:24 AM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=593502

6/7/2010 11:55:16 AM

That's a while snake.
That's a while.

6/7/2010 12:22:04 PM

^2 after reading that thread, I have determined you sir, are a moron

and a murderer of innocent baby copperheads who are actually not aggressive unless you fuck with them

ps it's called a black mamba due to the inside of its mouth being black

[Edited on June 7, 2010 at 12:26 PM. Reason : .]

6/7/2010 12:24:02 PM

i'm really impressed that this thread has made it this far without someone asking for someone to id their trouser snake.

you shouldn't kill snakes. they are my second favorite animals

6/7/2010 12:48:09 PM

Quote :

"antivenin"

+1 for using this correctly

6/7/2010 1:21:00 PM

Apparently no one has made Coral Snake antivenin in 5 years, and they're pretty much out. Since it costs 5-10million dollars to get FDA approval, no company is going to make any more.(the government is keeping us safe) If you live south of the Triangle, watch out for those red & yella deadly fellas. The only treatment is to intubate you for 3 to 6 months and hope you live through it.

I grabbed a scarlet king snake recently in Fayetteville while cleaning up debris. He was right in my hand before I knew it. I thought I was a dead man.

6/7/2010 1:36:34 PM