As far as I can see it, this would eliminate most of the problems in the world. Everyone would be free to do what they want. If one country (that was previously a state) wanted to drill off their coast, that would be their right without having to tangle with a legal system that considers environmental impact on nearby countries. If Holy Christian Republic of Texas wanted to change their school history books to remove separation of church and state they could do so without scrutiny from other states. If Arizona wanted to cut through the thinly veiled question people who walk like illegals law and straight up go whites only, they could.

What's the downside here, folks?

Let each state become its own country, it'll be way more representative. Heck, lets make counties their own countries. You know Mecklenburg is just itching to declare war on Wake. City-states ftw. Whose side will you take in the war that is to come?

7/27/2010 11:50:08 AM

I don't think secession from the union is a feasible (or smart) idea for any states, however the Federal gov't has extended its power far too much, at the expense of state's rights and power. That should change IMO.

7/27/2010 11:53:23 AM

Quote :

"Federal gov't has extended its power far too much, at the expense of state's rights and power"

When did this happen?

7/27/2010 11:55:51 AM

Since when do we allow parody threads in Soapbox

7/27/2010 12:00:28 PM

God is arguing there should be less countries, I am arguing for more. You got a problem with that?

^Also, to answer your question, see entry: HOOPS MALONE

7/27/2010 12:04:11 PM

7/27/2010 12:06:19 PM

I don't oppose secession. Hell, if Texas wants to leave, they can get the fuck out. We'll just wait for them to come crawling back after they realize they can't sustain a viable economy.

7/27/2010 12:38:11 PM

Quote :

"When did this happen?"

over 100 years ago

7/27/2010 1:01:57 PM

in all seriousness, anyone who "opposes" secession is against federalism. The states are only bound together in writing.

If the federal government begins imposing its will above the will of the people of a state (cough cough...Arizona...cough cough), then I support that states secession.

When the next secession occurs, the true question will be if theres going to be another civil war. Is the US government going to use force to preserve the union like they did the last time it happened?

7/27/2010 2:37:06 PM

I don't oppose secession. Hell, if Texas wants to leave, they can get the fuck out. We'll just wait for them to come crawling back after they realize they can't sustain a viable economy. become a shithole narco-state run by mexican cartels.

7/27/2010 2:41:54 PM

Wow, thanks Socks. I saw "Historic Franklin" personalized plates on the Tennessee DMV site and wondered what the heck that was all about. Now I know. Thanks!

7/27/2010 2:51:04 PM

We have the population to do secession right this time. Unfortunately we don't have the rebel motivation.

7/27/2010 4:17:41 PM

Quote :

"I don't oppose secession. Hell, if Texas wants to leave, they can get the fuck out."

I'd like to secede from Texas, but they pay pretty well.

7/27/2010 6:52:01 PM

states can't secede because then we'd have to change the flag's star pattern, dammit!

7/27/2010 6:58:01 PM

We can find new ones like Puerto Rico & DC.

7/27/2010 7:07:01 PM

If states had the right to leave, I think an equilibrium would be reached. Texas would threaten to leave, and congress would back down. And keep in mind, Cutting off Texas would harm those that remain quite a lot. On the day of secession, the republic of Texas and the U.S. would sign a bilateral free trade agreement along with freedom of movement. If I were Texas, I would keep the dollar.

This would perhaps be a good mechanism to check federal over-reach. But, my favorite solution is still to allow States to nullify federal statutes with a super-majority, either individually or as groups.

7/27/2010 7:08:49 PM

I'm a lil drunk right now, and have little knowledge of economics, so bear with me. If a state seceded, what would be the effect of losing the backing of the federal reserve/gold reserve?

7/27/2010 7:58:09 PM

Ideally, secession wouldn't be necessary. The states would refuse to enforce or acknowledge unconstitutional laws. Not surprisingly, nullification is hated by mainstream American statists. It immediately gets shouted down when mentioned. The general consensus seems to be that Congress should be able to pass whatever law it wants, with the only check being veto (not likely, under the great "pragmatist" Obama), or the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court can only check the power of Congress under the right circumstances.

I hope there will come a time when the states nut up and say enough is enough. The federal government has the states by the balls, though, since they can threaten to pull funding at any time. That's another danger of having a federal government with the power to tax (and, consequently, spend). It's a sham, really. People in every state give up a massive percentage of their wages to the federal government, and then are thankful when they get a few scraps back. The states should be fighting to keep more money in the state to begin with.

Quote :

"As far as I can see it, this would eliminate most of the problems in the world. Everyone would be free to do what they want. If one country (that was previously a state) wanted to drill off their coast, that would be their right without having to tangle with a legal system that considers environmental impact on nearby countries. If Holy Christian Republic of Texas wanted to change their school history books to remove separation of church and state they could do so without scrutiny from other states. If Arizona wanted to cut through the thinly veiled question people who walk like illegals law and straight up go whites only, they could."

You missed the whole point of federalism, I think. The idea of having a republic is that the federal government would be able to make laws concerning issues that involve commerce between states, or free speech, or the right to not get illegally searched by cops. I understand the point you're trying to make: we need a strong federal government to make sure everything is "right" (according to you) in the country. The problem is that a strong federal government will pass the "wrong" things when the authoritarian right is in power. That's not better than the alternative.

Quote :

"I'm a lil drunk right now, and have little knowledge of economics, so bear with me. If a state seceded, what would be the effect of losing the backing of the federal reserve/gold reserve?"

You mean, what would they do for a currency? They'd have a few options. They could still use dollars. There'd be nothing stopping them from doing exactly that. People in other countries can trade in dollars. They could also make their own currency. That would be a better idea. You could also introduce competing currencies.

I don't know why they would want to use dollars, though. The gold reserve means nothing. All of the dollars in existence are backed by a few hundred billion dollars worth of gold. Going off the gold standard means the currency can be inflated to worthlessness.

[Edited on July 27, 2010 at 8:20 PM. Reason : ]

7/27/2010 8:05:52 PM

Quote :

"Ideally, secession wouldn't be necessary."

I guess we're lucky that we're in an ideal situation then huh?

Quote :

"I hope there will come a time when the states nut up and say enough is enough."

Or are you saying it is necessary and now is the time?

7/27/2010 8:33:57 PM

Quote :

"If a state seceded, what would be the effect of losing the backing of the federal reserve/gold reserve?"

As the U.S. dollar is not backed by gold in any way, the effect would be nil. Also, Texas would not lose the backing of the federal reserve, as the federal reserve already has a policy of keeping operations in foreign dollarized countries, which Texas would be. In a sense, nothing would change. As far as things go, the U.S. dollar is a reasonably stable store of value, no point dropping it if you don't have to.

If anyone wants to drop the U.S. dollar, it would be Michigan, which is trapped in crushing deflation as caused by a chronic exchange deficit between it and the rest of the country. If Michigan could leave the common currency zone, then they could inflate their way out of their problems. In contrast, Texas is a net exporter of goods and services. No need to inflate there.

7/28/2010 12:43:35 AM

Secession wouldn't fix anything. But our country has veered away from its Constitutional limits, that it may someday take another revolution to get back on track. From the day the ink dried on that parchment, we have been in a struggle with ever increasing federal power.

7/28/2010 10:34:39 AM

Quote :

"Or are you saying it is necessary and now is the time?"

Now is absolutely the time for nullification.

7/28/2010 11:03:39 AM