Why these billionaires are pledging away their wealth
August 5, 2010

Quote :

"FORTUNE -- On Wednesday, the Giving Pledge -- a movement spearheaded by Warren Buffett and Bill and Melinda Gates -- revealed the names of 40 individuals and families who are taking up the challenge to give away at least half of their net worth during their lifetime or at death. Along with a commitment, the philanthropists all posted a letter explaining why they were taking the plunge. Analyzing their remarks offers a rare glimpse into the minds of the richest of the rich: how they view their fortunes and where they think their money should go after they die. The most common philosophy: That a life of monetary excess can be an empty life if the wealth does nothing to advance a greater cause."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/05/news/buffett_gates_pledge.fortune/

I think this is great. Private money, individual decisions, no government here picking their pockets for this program or that.

Good for them!

8/5/2010 4:06:30 PM

[lock]

That's how this works, right? I can just get any thread I don't want to exist locked, right?



[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 4:09 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2010 4:08:50 PM

This is a perfectly legitimate topic about philanthropy. If you don't know what that word means, you should just look it up.

8/5/2010 4:24:45 PM

This is a perfectly legitimate topic to discuss, but because of your conduct in other threads, I'm requesting this one be locked.

8/5/2010 4:27:29 PM

HAY GUYZ LOOK AT ME; IM GIVING AWAY SOME OF MY BILLIONS. CHECK OUT MY LETTER FULL OF CLICHED REASONS WHY I DID IT. GOTTA RUN THO, ON MY WAY TO FIJI!!!!!!






Turns out billionaires are attention whores just like the rest of us.

8/5/2010 4:38:17 PM

It is very tough to find women that don't want you for your money, I admit.

8/5/2010 4:40:25 PM

^^ But their "attention-whoring" comes with privately donated billions of dollars in benefit to humanity attached to it. Call me crazy, but that seems worthy of attention.

^ Please stop posting.

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 4:46 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2010 4:41:37 PM

Quote :

"Some billionaires approached by the country's two richest men have already rejected the idea. Buffett wouldn't name names, but says that general dissatisfaction with the government played a role for some. (He says he frequently got a political lecture from those billionaires after making his request.)"

Hahaha I wonder who these assholes were

8/5/2010 4:46:23 PM

^ I certainly hope you're not implying that conservatives are less charitable than liberals.

8/5/2010 4:49:31 PM

People give their money away everyday for good causes. Its not the size of the gift its what compels you to give that makes philanthropy such a great thing. I personally think these people are compelled to give for attention, to save face in the public eye, and so that they will be remembered at boring dinner fundraisers after they're gone.







just my opinion tho

8/5/2010 4:53:29 PM

Who gives a shit if they have ulterior motives? We shouldn't demand that altruism come with their giant piles of money.

If altruism even exists. I'd say a fair chunk of all donations are motivated by a desire to put ones own conscience at ease, which is selfish in its own way.

So yeah, I don't care if every dime of this is a PR stunt or ploy to ensure one's legacy.

8/5/2010 5:17:36 PM

Quote :

"^ I certainly hope you're not implying that conservatives are less charitable than liberals."

No, you're the one twisting this into a political statement. Not me.

8/5/2010 5:37:40 PM

^ Just checking. No need to get testy.

8/5/2010 5:38:41 PM

Quote :

"Who gives a shit if they have ulterior motives?"

I guess I do. I'm not gonna pat these asshats on the back and tell them how great they are.

I'll quote Jesus (Luke 20):

Quote :

"45 Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples, 46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts; 47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation. Chapter 21 1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: 4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had."

So who deserves their name in the paper? The old lady or the rich men?






(yes, I just dropped a parable ITT)

8/5/2010 6:30:53 PM

A basic assumption on the part of the modern left is that people will not help out their fellow man, unless forced to at the point of a gun or by the threat of jail. Given how much "required charity" these billionaires are forced to give up, we're lucky they give anything at all.

8/5/2010 7:07:53 PM

Quote :

"A basic assumption on the part of the modern left is that people will not help out their fellow man, unless forced to at the point of a gun or by the threat of jail."

I don't consider that to be it, it's just better if we are forced to under the point of the gun there are several studies on different games that show the problems with human charity, we just don't look at it rationally unless it is on the aggregate.

8/5/2010 7:12:14 PM

Quote :

"d357r0y3r: Given how much "required charity" these billionaires are forced to give up, we're lucky they give anything at all."

As a percentage of their income, they pay a lot less in taxes than many middle class Americans.

8/5/2010 7:24:37 PM

Quote :

"I think this is great. Private money, individual decisions, no government here picking their pockets for this program or that. "

While it is their money and they can do with it what they want, during these troubled times mankind would be much better off if they used the money for entrepreneurship. Certainly there are some markets in need of arbitration at this time.

8/5/2010 7:44:08 PM

^^Bullshit. Go analyze some tax data some time. Given that taxes are progressive, the number of tax credits and deductions available to the middle class and the fact that 40% of those that filed paid $0 or less in taxes I'd wager that you have no evidence to support your claim.

8/5/2010 8:40:06 PM

^Why would I make a claim with no evidence?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/27/AR2007062700097.html

8/5/2010 8:55:26 PM

thats only income tax. there are a lot of other taxes to take into account.

however, another good argument for a flat or fair tax.

8/5/2010 8:59:08 PM

which other taxes are you referring to specifically?

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 9:07 PM. Reason : to too]

8/5/2010 9:07:07 PM

^^Yeah, what other taxes are you referring to?

8/5/2010 9:24:13 PM

^payroll, cap gains, property, sales tax. Dont they phase out deductions too?


A new report by the Congressional Budget Office shows that Buffett and Clinton have their facts quite wrong. Indeed, the "super-rich," the top 1 percent of households, are now paying a record 27.6 percent of federal taxes1 and a record 38.8 percent of income taxes. By contrast, the bottom 80 percent of households—representing 90 million households—pay 31.1 percent of federal taxes and just 13.7 percent of income taxes.2

In other words, the top 1.1 million American households pay a greater share of the income tax burden than the bottom 90 million combined.


report
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/12-11-HistoricalTaxRates.pdf

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 9:33 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2010 9:27:04 PM

Great, that's one anecdote. How about some data?

8/5/2010 9:30:27 PM

Its Cap gains vs earned income.

I wonder what his tax rate was when the market crashed? lol

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 9:38 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2010 9:37:18 PM

Quote :

"A new report by the Congressional Budget Office shows that Buffett and Clinton have their facts quite wrong."

would you mind posting it? the report you posted is from 2007

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 9:45 PM. Reason : its bridget needs to its only fair]

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 9:46 PM. Reason : oh and also she said as a percent of their income]

8/5/2010 9:44:40 PM

I thought this thread was going to be about health care...woops

8/5/2010 9:52:06 PM

I can play number games too - except mine make more sense when compared to reality:

Total Net Worth
Top 1 percent Next 19 percent Bottom 80 percent
2007 34.6% 50.5% 15.0%

Financial Wealth
Top 1 percent Next 19 percent Bottom 80 percent
2007 42.7% 50.3% 7.0%


So, just using your figures we can say that:

% of Total Government Taxes Received / Total Net Worth
Top 1 percent Bottom 80 percent
1.253 1.373

If we look at "Financial Wealth" or "total net worth minus the value of one's home" the ratio becomes far more stark.

Looks like the rich people are really hurting shelling out those taxes compared to 80% of the country.

Quick! Switch gears and start making an argument about how higher taxes on the rich hurt small business investment and will result in fewer small business jobs. Loneshark? Anyone?

Or you can just go with the old standby and say you never made any claims and that you were just presenting unbiased data.





http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

8/5/2010 10:00:07 PM

Kurtis636, for what it's worth...Buffett challenged his billionaire buddies to speak up if they paid a higher percentage of their income in taxes than their secretaries, and so far, none have come forward to claim the one million dollar reward that he offered. As for that data, feel free to click the link below.

eyedrb, we're not talking about the top one percent. We're talking about the top .00000001 percent (or whatever). Billionaires. And it's no secret that the majority of their income is taxed as capital gains at a rate of fifteen percent (sometimes even when it's not capital gains). And, percentage-wise, this is much lower than many people pay...certainly much lower than many folks on TWW complain about having to pay.


http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3090


So the data is out of the way...but seriously, I can't even believe you guys needed to see the data. You seriously thought billionaires actually forked over 25 percent of their income to the federal government?

Also, I think Lavim makes some good points.

8/5/2010 10:42:20 PM

I'm sure they don't, but I'm still not buying your assertion that they pay less % vs. "many middle class" folks. First, define middle class and then we can talk. If were going with the middle 33% of all taxpayers I'd be surprised if your assertion is correct. The people who are truly getting hit hard are those in the 50-75% range.

8/5/2010 10:54:24 PM

^It looks like you answered your own question.

8/5/2010 10:56:49 PM

Quote :

"While it is their money and they can do with it what they want, during these troubled times mankind would be much better off if they used the money for entrepreneurship. Certainly there are some markets in need of arbitration at this time."

LoneSnark

I would simply point out that "entrepreneurship" is the approach by which many of those million/billionaires made their money, Snark. And private giving by these individuals can have an obvious aggregate benefit.

For example, if I build, say, a medical clinic for lower-income people in a disadvantaged area, this could reduce the draw on government resources, which would benefit us all. I'm all for private giving--the more the better and we should incentivize it more.

And I want to help the poor, the sick, the injured (who often get forgotten), and other truly needy people. I am just wary of failed government programs that run in perpetuity, continuing to take our tax money year after year. I believe that private giving--if properly applied--can help greatly reduce the need for government-provided services.

[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 2:26 AM. Reason : .]

8/6/2010 2:25:42 AM

@TerdFerguson Warren Buffett addressed your issues.

Quote :

"First, my pledge: More than 99% of my wealth will go to philanthropy during my lifetime or at death. Measured by dollars, this commitment is large. In a comparative sense, though, many individuals give more to others every day. Millions of people who regularly contribute to churches, schools, and other organizations thereby relinquish the use of funds that would otherwise benefit their own families. The dollars these people drop into a collection plate or give to United Way mean forgone movies, dinners out, or other personal pleasures. In contrast, my family and I will give up nothing we need or want by fulfilling this 99% pledge. "

8/6/2010 11:15:05 AM