Goldman breaks rank, y'all!

http://www.wral.com/news/education/wake_county_schools/story/8404190/

A brief victory but WOOT WOOT!

WOOT WOOT!

WOOT WOOT!

WOOT WOOT!

A little background: message_topic.aspx?topic=588787

10/6/2010 6:54:06 AM

^
You racist.

10/6/2010 9:00:05 AM

Okay, ranks, not rank. I don't know the origin of that phrase so I can never remember it.

And I should emphasize that this may be a very, very brief victory. Goldman claims she is still set on neighborhood schools. But who knows!

^Bite me.

[Edited on October 6, 2010 at 9:01 AM. Reason : WOOT WOOT!]

10/6/2010 9:01:32 AM

Quote :

"Bite me"

Where?

10/6/2010 10:56:32 AM

Goldman is for neighborhood schools, she is just opposed to the zoning plan. she wants to have base schools. i have yet to see what her plan for base schools is though.

10/6/2010 11:27:43 AM

Yes, but taking a step back from the Tedesco plan is awesome!

10/6/2010 12:04:36 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/10/06/723679/wake-schools-toss-out-zone-assignment.html

Quote :

"Tedesco, offering a handshake, approached Goldman before they left dais, saying, "I've enjoyed our friendship while it lasted." The startling change occurred after signs that Wake County's school board majority was ready to implode. Members had tossed insults and engaged in verbal warfare over the ongoing development of the student assignment plan. At one point, Tedesco called Goldman "a prom queen." The controversy seems certain to continue."

Sounds like it was quite a party.

10/6/2010 12:29:36 PM

so does she believe in proximity-based zoning?

or

does she believe in some mystical power of busing that will somehow improve everyone's grades, home lives, parenting skills/traits, determination, respect, sense of responsibility, and work manner?

10/6/2010 12:31:38 PM

10/6/2010 1:09:52 PM

how do you idiots believe in this shit?

a dumb fucking redneck in a "white" school is going to be a dumb fucking redneck in a "black" school.
a careless thug in a "black" school is going to be a careless thug in a "white" school.

a successful white student in a "white" school is going to be a successful white student in a "black" school.
a successful black student in a "black" school is going to be a successful black student in a "white" school.

a dumb fucking redneck in a good school is going to be a dumb fucking redneck in a bad school.
a careless thug in a bad school is going to be a careless thug in a good school.


the students and teachers are the problem, not the demographics. in now way can you say that diversity helps me learn precalc or grammar better. forced diversity is the biggest crock of our generation.

10/6/2010 1:33:03 PM

^Racist.

10/6/2010 1:38:56 PM

haha. the only argument your side has, which is unsubstantiated, bigoted, untrue, and a worn out and weak defense.

10/6/2010 1:40:36 PM

Quote :

"forced diversity is the biggest crock of our generation."

10/6/2010 1:48:10 PM

Quote :

"the students and teachers are the problem, not the demographics"

so, the people at the schools are the problem, not the people at the schools? well shit, maybe we should change around the people at the schools somehow.

10/6/2010 1:56:33 PM

You crackers probably think hate crime laws are a bad thing too.

I love how these school board racists can't even get along with each other.

10/6/2010 1:59:53 PM

^^you know exactly what I was saying, dipshit.
^crime motivation doesn't matter. only that a crime was committed. and I'm all for maximum punishments for all criminals.

10/6/2010 2:11:36 PM

9 outta 10, if you have punk-ass parents you are going to be a punk-ass student, no matter if Biff or LaQuita sit next to you in class.

10/6/2010 2:14:39 PM

^

10/6/2010 2:17:29 PM

The role of government is to educate these little twerps whether their parents want them to be or not.

Community schools = Slavery

^,^^,^^^ = Racists

10/6/2010 2:20:43 PM

Quote :

"crime motivation doesn't matter. only that a crime was committed. and I'm all for maximum punishments for all criminals."

Good thing the law doesn't agree with you whatsoever and intent is codified

10/6/2010 2:22:17 PM

Good thing you don't understand the difference between intent and motive.

10/6/2010 2:26:21 PM

^Racist

AND THE WINNER IS:


The bigots have lost. It's over. They have voted to scrap community schools. And now with all these personal insults, they'll never be able to form a majority again. They will be unable to sneak these carpetbaggers into office during the next election.

A victory for civil rights. Civil Disobedience works!

[Edited on October 6, 2010 at 2:47 PM. Reason : .]

10/6/2010 2:38:56 PM

I've brought it up before, but...

I spent some time in the Wake County school system. I was bussed across the county when there was a school within 5 minutes walking distance. I probably wasted 2.5 -3 hours per day on transit alone. It sucked.

I'll continue to vote so my kid never has to deal with that kind of crap.

10/6/2010 3:03:23 PM

^^ Let's bring the van just in case we have to arrest his fat ass.

10/6/2010 3:06:08 PM

^Weightist

10/6/2010 3:11:22 PM

Quote :

"She called for an "equity-based" system that still works toward community-based schools without “putting in lines and dividing communities.” Parents from WakeCARES, a group that lobbied to get the conservative majority on the board, don't know what to think now. “I want to say we're back at square one, but I don't even know if we're back at square one. I'm not sure where we are,” Allison Backhouse, one of the group’s leaders, said Wednesday. “Mrs. Goldman stated she supports community schools and doesn't support diversity busing, but I'm not sure what she supports at this point.”"

I'm thinking Goldman supports everyone paying attention to her for a little while, and that's what this is about.


Also, John Tedesco took the tiff to facebook.

10/6/2010 3:12:00 PM

The Hedgehog Wins

10/6/2010 3:23:46 PM

Quote :

"Good thing the law doesn't agree with you whatsoever and intent is codified"

Quote :

"Good thing you don't understand the difference between intent and motive"

lol... McDouche pwnt. Stay home.

10/6/2010 3:24:20 PM

Quote :

"Good thing you don't understand the difference between intent and motive."

Legal definitions:

Quote :

"Intent: A determination to perform a particular act or to act in a particular manner for a specific reason; an aim or design; a resolution to use a certain means to reach an end. Motive: An idea, belief, or emotion that impels a person to act in accordance with that state of mind."

These are different and I appear to have equivocated. So, I was wrong.

I was pretty fast to slap these two things together, and I think it was because of the context of our discussion. The context was hate crimes. wdprice3 suggests that crime motivation does not matter.

Suggesting motivation doesn't matter is an implicit claim that we should not have "hate crimes". However, the motives of the people involved are quite relevant as they contribute directly to the intent. In fact, there seems to be direct overlap between motives and intent in hate crimes; you want to terrorize/send-a-message-to an entire community that they're not welcome, are hated, whatever.

So let me retract what I said and ask a question instead: if someone's motives can be identified, and these motives clearly contribute to and overlap with the intent to commit a more egregious crime than the vanilla version (murder vs. a fag drag), why shouldn't motives matter?

Also LOL at all of these nutriders who are overjoyed I actually made a misstep. I usually speak carefully but did not here. Pretty funny that I can goof up and a bunch of Soap Box haters pop off

10/6/2010 3:39:58 PM

NOW YOU'RE JUST FLIP FLOPPING

10/6/2010 3:56:06 PM

Quote :

"if someone's motives can be identified, and these motives clearly contribute to and overlap with the intent to commit a more egregious crime than the vanilla version (murder vs. a fag drag), why shouldn't motives matter?"

Let me as an aside mention that I'm only going to answer your question rather than deride you personally in any way.

Your problem here is that you're assuming a fag drag is more egregious than a murder. If you accept this as fact, then yes, motive matters. I do not accept this as fact because what it is doing is effectively enforcing motive. It's suddenly "more wrong" to kill someone because you hate their sexual preference than it is because they stole money from you. The only reason that the law would be written this way is to encourage people not to hate other people's sexual preferences.

Now it's fine to make crimes with intent "more wrong" than crimes without intent because the purpose of that is to punish more harshly people who fully understand the consequences of their actions and commit their crimes anyway. We categorically want our citizens to do this less. Why they committed the crime should be irrelevant, in terms of punishment. We should not punish people differently solely based on their reasoning for committing the crime.

Of course, none of this is saying that a particular "fag drag" should not be punished more harshly than a particular murder. "Fag drag" has connotations of torture as well. But the "fag" part of it should be irrelevant.

10/6/2010 3:58:28 PM

so if one guy is going to murder another, what does the skin color/sexual orientation/etc/reasoning matter? dead is dead. murder is murder. crime is crime. no matter the intent, the murderer should still be put to death.

I fail to see how the same crime is any different, or should be punished differently, based on the criminals personal beliefs. How is it different if a guy kills someone just to kill than if a guy killed someone based on race/sexual orientation/etc? Both victims are dead, both were murdered. Why does one criminal deserve something different? Both should receive the same penalty for their actions, not their beliefs.

10/6/2010 4:00:26 PM

Quote :

" no matter the intent, the murderer should still be put to death."

The rest of your post was fine. You meant to say motive rather than intent here. We obviously want to punish someone who snaps and kills the man he just caught banging his wife differently than a serial killer.

10/6/2010 4:18:20 PM

NAACP Victorious in Battle Against Racist Parents

10/6/2010 4:52:57 PM

10/6/2010 5:12:23 PM

^^^yeh sorry, meant motive. haha.

and in the end, I don't think those crimes should be punished differently. both should be death penalties.

[Edited on October 6, 2010 at 5:14 PM. Reason : .]

10/6/2010 5:13:10 PM

Quote :

"Now it's fine to make crimes with intent "more wrong" than crimes without intent because the purpose of that is to punish more harshly people who fully understand the consequences of their actions and commit their crimes anyway. We categorically want our citizens to do this less. Why they committed the crime should be irrelevant, in terms of punishment. We should not punish people differently solely based on their reasoning for committing the crime."

Racially motivated killings are more than just killings. They're messages to a particular community. In addition to this attempt at intimidation, it opens up the possibility of race riots or more racially motivated violence depending on how egregious things are.

Quote :

"Of course, none of this is saying that a particular "fag drag" should not be punished more harshly than a particular murder. "Fag drag" has connotations of torture as well. But the "fag" part of it should be irrelevant."

Do you think it's irrelevant to the homosexuals who realize they might be next? Allowing people to target groups of people for special intimidation worsens the social condition for everyone.

10/6/2010 7:17:56 PM

This still has me soooooo giddy!

We've seen school board members flip before.

We need to thoroughly flip Goldman. And Margiotta is resigning next year! And Tedesco is continuing to reveal his ineptitude....


WOOOOOOOOOT WOOOOOOOOT!

10/6/2010 8:05:31 PM

(came here to post) ^ racist

10/6/2010 8:26:20 PM

Schools in NC are still horrible though... the whole busing thing seems like a smoke screen for the big problems.

10/6/2010 8:42:21 PM

^^^Didn't know he was resigning. After Margiotta led the charge against comprehensive sex ed, and helped organized a boycott of the N&O over it featuring a gay couple (maybe it was a wedding announcement), I think the less influence he has over education, the better.

[Edited on October 6, 2010 at 8:54 PM. Reason : .]

10/6/2010 8:53:10 PM

Quote :

"Racially motivated killings are more than just killings. They're messages to a particular community. In addition to this attempt at intimidation, it opens up the possibility of race riots or more racially motivated violence depending on how egregious things are. "

Then charge them with terrorism.

10/6/2010 9:37:50 PM

^^^Wake County's alright.

But we really need to get more money out to our rural areas. I bitch about schools that suck up tons of loot with no results, but we got entire districts that get scraps. Teachers start at around 23k/year in places where practically no teacher would want to move anyway. They put out newspaper ads for people with "some college" to come babysit classrooms.

^^I heard it from someone a few hours ago, and I was so stoked that I just believed it. It could be totally false, but I wanna enjoy the thought for a little while.

Okay, found some evidence:
http://www.wral.com/news/education/wake_county_schools/video/8198325/#/vid8198325



[Edited on October 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/6/2010 10:07:35 PM

This is great.

I didn't have to pray, or anything.

10/6/2010 10:19:14 PM

I wonder about all the people that got arrested in protest. Remember that one college-aged white guy that got arrested in one of the later meetings? Dude was crying as he read his statement. I guess that wasn't a wasted gesture after all.

Of course Goldman didn't really have a change of heart. She just had a tuff with her colleagues and changed her vote to stick it to 'em. But maybe the protesters had some effect in the back of her mind.

10/7/2010 12:01:50 AM

I am 100% for neighborhood based schools. This is NOT racist. Nothing is stopping a black/asian/hispanic from moving to Cary and attending a dominantly white Cary High.

Quote :

"the students and teachers Parents are the problem, not the demographics. in now way can you say that diversity helps me learn precalc or grammar better. forced diversity is the biggest crock of our generation. "

The issue with poor schools is not a correlation of race. The correlation is socioeconomics of the parents. Poor/Uneducated parents are more likely to not give a shit and/or do not motivate their children to excel in school. This then gets carried into the classroom.

10/7/2010 11:29:50 AM

ITT: Collectivists

10/7/2010 11:56:16 AM

Public schools...lol.

10/7/2010 6:51:05 PM

Quote :

"Nothing is stopping a black/asian/hispanic from moving to Cary and attending a dominantly white Cary High."

Nothing except economics.

10/8/2010 7:00:18 AM

There's houses for sale right now in Green Hope's and Apex's district that are quite affordable.

There's a lot more houses right now in Fuquay's district under $200K than there are in SE Raleigh's district. Fuquay-Varina is the 4th whitest high school in the county.

10/8/2010 10:14:29 AM