Quote :

"http://www.highschoolot.com/content/story/8601859/"

this type of logic just drives me insane:

Quote :

"Greenberger said that only 41-percent of all high school athletes in the United States are girls, even though they make up half the student population. "That means schools are giving girls 1.3 million fewer opportunities than boys to play sports nationwide," she said. "It's past time to rally for girls in high school sports.""

it further drives me insane that this group will force our schools to spend (already strained) budget money on defending themselves in court and compliance over something as asinine as Title IX. right or wrong, the fact is that women's sports are a collective drain on most school's athletic budgets and rely on the men's sports (namely basketball, football and baseball) to fund them. compliance will require either the elimination of some men's sports or the addition of some women's sports. likely, it will be the former, effectively punishing boys playing non-revenue sports.

11/10/2010 12:47:18 PM

Quote :

"and baseball"

Yeah, right.

11/10/2010 12:48:38 PM

Quote :

"That means schools are giving girls 1.3 million fewer opportunities than boys to play sports nationwide"

Seriously, that's the conclusion she reached? It couldn't possibly have something to do with the fact that modern American culture encourages athleticism in boys more than it does in girls, causing less girls to be interested in sports in the first place? It's got to be the school's fault for not providing them opportunities?

Fucking stupid parents.

11/10/2010 12:51:57 PM

A 40+ person girls only sport in every HS across the country would fix this!

11/10/2010 3:31:38 PM

Quote :

"POWDER PUFF FOOTBALL"

Revenue generating, woman dominated, 40 person (ish). Perfect problem solver.

11/10/2010 4:57:19 PM

the problem is almost universally football. most other sports have a male-female equivalent in high school. the one sport that gets cut the most as a result (because that's usually what happens, cuts to male programs, not increased female programs) is wrestling.

11/10/2010 5:56:10 PM

Wake County already offers every womens sport sanctioned in North Carolina.

11/10/2010 6:48:19 PM

Is stripping considered a sport? I'd watch competitive high school stripping.

11/10/2010 6:48:25 PM

I hear pole dancing is excellent exercise. Would count as a trade too.

11/10/2010 6:49:33 PM

competitive dishwashing, sandwich making, and baking. problem solved.

11/10/2010 8:12:54 PM

The one thing I don't like about this is that cheerleading is not allowed as a sport to help balance against football, which is 99% male. While it certainly is not on the same level as football in terms of athleticism required, it still does require athletic ability, has regular competitions, is usually coached by somebody in the athletic departement, and is almost entirely female dominated. If they require some stupid shit like womens football, then the girls cheerleading budget should be used to help fund a boys cheerleading team, even if its only one guy involved. FAIR IS FAIR AMIRITE?

11/11/2010 3:52:55 PM

^yeah, make sure you sign up your two boys for that cheerleading team!

11/12/2010 12:58:38 AM

they should repeat this mantra:

"Equality of opportunity does not guarantee equality of outcome."

11/12/2010 1:16:21 AM

^^back in middle school we had several different guys join the cheerleading squad. And I am not really arguing for a separate male cheering program, but if they don't acknowledge that cheering is part of athletics, then it's bullshit that they are supposed to offer all of these additional programs above and beyond what they do for boys and use programs that are male dominated as the reason, while completely ignoring the biggest female dominated program in athletics.

11/12/2010 7:16:00 AM

Quote :

"Greenberger said that only 41-percent of all high school athletes in the United States are girls, even though they make up half the student population. "

41-PERCENT WTF our grandmothers would be shocked at this statistic which was probably like <5% when they grew up. Could the answer possible be that females may not be as much into sports as males???

ZOMG SEXIST HUR says some females may not be as much into sports as males. SHOCKING NEWS BREAK.

What does this group of lesbian feminsts expect? Should males start being denied the ability to play sports just because x% of girls decide not to play.

Someone else said it but go ahead and count cheerleading as a sport. I do not see it as one but for Title IX purposes there is no reason not to.

11/12/2010 8:39:20 AM

Quote :

"they should repeat this mantra: "Equality of opportunity does not guarantee equality of outcome."

11/12/2010 9:16:42 AM

^

11/12/2010 9:18:40 AM

^^Maybe the same thing should be said to some members of the NAACP with regards to education as it stands now?

11/12/2010 10:23:46 AM

zing!

so it begins

11/12/2010 6:10:24 PM

^^yes, but there is some blatant inequality of opportunity based on race

11/12/2010 7:59:55 PM

There are some shitty fucking parents. You can bus all the rich kids and all the poor kids to wherever you want, and as long as the parents don't give a damn, the kids probably won't either. It has nothing to do with skin color, and everything to do with culture and upbringing.

11/12/2010 8:13:48 PM

look up "residential segregation due to white flight"

11/12/2010 8:41:53 PM

Quote :

"look up "residential segregation due to white flight""

This is always an interesting point to me. Is the premise here that minority students are unable to succeed unless they attend school with white students? If not, then the issue is clearly a cultural issue, in which case it seems to me perhaps that effort is better spent trying to change the culture, rather than the symptoms that culture causes.

This applies equally to the Title IX complaint here. If relative to their population in schools, girls aren't participating in sports, perhaps the issue to address is why girls aren't participating in the sports rather than the fact that because they aren't participating, there may not be as many sports in the first place.

11/12/2010 11:40:26 PM

it's more that the typical white family is much wealthier than the typical black family, so majority-black school districts often don't have enough funding to provide decent educations

I mean the effects of historical discrimination are getting dampened out but we're not there yet

11/13/2010 12:28:01 AM

^Dude, I work in a school district that is majority white and surrounded by multiple school districts with a black majority. We spend almost half as much per child in money as the other districts do (one spends over 2x as much per pupil as we do) and we regularly spank them.

But in another twist to the $$ vs. culture argument, the local KIPP charter school is mostly black and the kids do really well; the same kids that a few years ago were in these failing school districts. Want to know why? Because they can enforce strict disciplinary rules, including kicking kids out, and you have to apply to attend. Those kids want to be there, our held to a far higher standard, and my school district looses some kids whose parents want them to be out there.

And if, as you say the majority black schools usually don't do as well, if a majority black school is doing better than a neighboring white majority school, should that school be forced to accept a certain number of white kids to help them out? KIPP currently has no affirmative action for enrollment, should they be required to accept a number of white kids to make things "more equal"?

11/13/2010 12:03:48 PM

not every school can be exceptional

11/13/2010 12:07:13 PM

I agree with you, just playing devils advocate. My main point to the post was that MOAR MONEY doesn't equal better education. You have to have kids that want to be there and parents that are involved in their kids education. Without that, the kids have no motivation and no support to do better. Esp. when they grow up in a culture that glorifies gangs and violence, and shows the only way to be successful is through sports, rap music, or drugs.

11/13/2010 12:53:52 PM

Title IX is a crock of shit. If enough people of one gender aren't interested in playing a sport, then it's simple, that sport isn't offered and other teams shouldn't suffer.

11/14/2010 12:53:34 PM

Quote :

"look up "residential segregation due to white flight""

You look up: "white flight not due to incoming black skin, but due to incoming black crime."

11/14/2010 4:36:07 PM

n/m. slightly different situation

[Edited on November 14, 2010 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2010 4:47:21 PM

Nighthawk, you seem to be a big fan of KIPP schools as an antidote for the presumably well funded/still failing black schools. What would you do for the highly motivated black students that don't win the lottery to get into a KIPP school? Is it just the luck of the draw?

11/14/2010 11:55:25 PM

^Up the number of charter school permits that the state allows. I know several teachers that would love to start another one in my area, but with the cap at 100, they are up shit creek to do anything about it.

And honestly, I'm not a huge fan of KIPP. What I am a huge fan of is the model they use. Parental involvement is a must. Students must want to be there. And discipline can quickly escalate to removal of the student from the program. That should be applied to all public schools, not just charter pseudo public schools. In my opinion there is a huge problem in our education systems setup. This great idea that everybody should go to college and nobody should drop out is bullshit. If you don't want to be there, why force a kid to stay? Early on kids should be told their options, including what the various trade schools/community colleges have to offer. You don't want to be a doctor, but you are a badass with a blowtorch and can weld all day long? Great! You worked on your car with daddy since you were 5? Perfect, get ASE certified and do that. But a lot of guidance counselors seem to push every kid to go to a university, and they have to stay in school. Etc. Fuck it, if they don't want to be there, let them seek alternative education options.

[Edited on November 15, 2010 at 7:06 AM. Reason : ]

11/15/2010 7:02:15 AM

Quote :

"This great idea that everybody should go to college and nobody should drop out is bullshit. If you don't want to be there, why force a kid to stay?"

I agree. There is almost zero vocational training in high schools now. It seems that apprentice programs could do really well, as well as involve local businesses.

High school should prepare you on how to be an adult...not a college student.

11/15/2010 7:36:07 AM

Quote :

"High school should prepare you on how to be an adult...not a college student."

Depends on the person. If they don't plan to go to college/aren't "college material" then sure. I do agree that not everyone needs to go to college though.

11/15/2010 9:03:03 AM

I think it was already implied that going to college was a subset of "being an adult" for some people but not for others.

11/15/2010 9:17:35 AM

^^^and we wonder why nothing is built in this country anymore

11/15/2010 12:46:05 PM

what I mean is that I would be an advocate for more classes in high school that prepare you for life on your own.

for example, I would favor schools requiring a personal finance class instead of classical british literature as part of graduation. people should attend college to study something like that...high schoolers have no interest and virtually no benefit in memorizing parts of The Canterbury Tales.

I am not slamming the arts here. they have a place. I just think we could do better in preparing teenagers on how to be adults. we could prioritize.

11/16/2010 10:07:11 AM

I understand that to an extent. I guess it just depends on what people decide should be taught at home vs. at school. I learned personal finance via my parents; I didn't really need a class. Then again it is useful and not everyone learns it at home.

[Edited on November 16, 2010 at 10:22 AM. Reason : .]

11/16/2010 10:21:53 AM

Quote :

"virtually no benefit in memorizing parts of The Canterbury Tales. "

There's more to life than balancing your checkbook and showing up to your shitty job on time.

11/16/2010 1:12:26 PM

I am not denying that there isnt more to life. are you denying that high schoolers dont give a fuck about stuff like that? especially ones who have no interest in higher learning? are you also denying that society as a whole would not benefit from high school grads having at least a baseline knowledge of interest, mortgages, insurance, estates, saving, etc...vs Grendel? in light of the epic financial crisis that has befallen our county, I find your comment funny. if more people knew how to "balance their checkbook" we might not be so bad off as a nation.

I am trying to be practical.

classical education should largely be left to the university level. there is no need to dedicate an entire senior year class to something like Brit Lit (wake county requires it...at least they did when i was in school).

again, arts have a place. I just think we could prioritize to practicality.

11/16/2010 1:26:03 PM

I agree that for some reason a lot of people don't learn that stuff and a lot of people would benefit from it but I would see personal finance stuff as more of an elective. I disagree that we need an entire class on that outside of that. It just takes an average level of intelligence and parents that spend a pretty minimal amount of time with their kids to have them understand how to balance their budget, save, etc. We just have a bunch of morons these days apparently.

11/16/2010 1:34:07 PM

I'd favor requiring them both.

11/16/2010 1:52:54 PM

Personal finance isn't elective in the real world. Arts are.

11/16/2010 2:08:23 PM

If anything, classes like Brit lit should be an elective. For me, reading literature and poetry was a waste of time. I didn't care, and I remembered what I needed to know for as long as I had to. Then again, lit classes in college were a total waste of time as well. I would have been better off taking more writing classes, but that wasn't an option.

11/16/2010 2:20:42 PM

Quote :

"at least a baseline knowledge of interest, mortgages, insurance, estates, saving,"

If every student was educated on interest, mortgages, insurance, and savings....

Than all of our banking friends, Pay-Day Loan buddies, and Big Box retailers would be missing out on all the monies from taking advantage of the average american's irresponsible financial actions.

Ken Lewis did not earn his golden parachute thanks to responsible budget minded customers!

[Edited on November 16, 2010 at 2:42 PM. Reason : aa]

11/16/2010 2:39:39 PM

Quote :

"I am not denying that there isnt more to life. are you denying that high schoolers dont give a fuck about stuff like that?"

And they're chomping at the bit to learn about mortgages? I'm not convinced that the technicals of balancing a checkbook is the problem anyway, it's the effort. Do you honestly think that the problem is high schoolers generally don't know how to add and subtract? Or is it more likely that they don't save their receipts and don't give a shit? Are they going to learn how to give a shit from a school?

Quote :

"I find your comment funny. if more people knew how to "balance their checkbook" we might not be so bad off as a nation."

So it's the common man's fault for the recession and not super rich people that are actually really good at math that continue to be super rich?

I think that the purpose of school is not to load them with procedural skills that would be useful in the "real world" business machine. I think the purpose of school is to teach children how to solve new problems that they will encounter that they did not have formal training on and teach them how to interact with other humans in a social setting.

Creativity is paramount. Trying to turn them into calculator drones will not solve any problems in our economy. I like the idea of offering vocational schools and courses but not at the expense of art simply because it doesn't seem utilitarian. Looking at an airplane for example, I'd argue as much art went into the design as did physics.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fuck, I'd be fine with making everything elective but the system is too huge and not funded well enough to allow it. Optimally children and their parents should be able to cater their education around their interests and aptitudes. Even so, I'd be against allowing them to never take anything that "they're never going to use, anyway".

[Edited on November 16, 2010 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2010 2:46:10 PM

Quote :

"So it's the common man's fault for the recession and not super rich people that are actually really good at math that continue to be super rich?"

I think there are a lot of people who saddled themselves with mortgages they didnt understand and could not afford because they lacked a basic knowledge of how they worked.

Quote :

"I think that the purpose of school is not to load them with procedural skills that would be useful in the "real world" business machine. I think the purpose of school is to teach children how to solve new problems that they will encounter that they did not have formal training on and teach them how to interact with other humans in a social setting."

I am not talking about procedure skills or business. I am talking about the tools a person needs to be a functioning, productive member of society. These include being able to navigate financials and plan for one's retirement...so the rest of us do not have to provide the teet.

11/16/2010 3:34:16 PM