So yes, it revs up high. People don't like to rev them that high, because of it's power delivery, harshness, sound, vibration, so forth. Example, the e36 M3 motor has a lower redline, gets there more slowly, and makes less power up there, but it's a lot more inviting. If you'd said "free revving" I wouldn't argue it. You get in a 911, and you downshift just to hear, feel the engine. The e46 M3's just not like that, you downshift in that car to accelerate. It doesn't have that x factor... At anywhere near it's performance envelope, most cars are a lot more inviting to rev. I mean, even w/in your garage, I present to you the e39 M5. I drive that thing across it's power band, because it makes me want to. I... just don't like e46 M3s that much. It's too numb to be an M car, and too frantic to be a 3 series.

I will freely admit, they're very fun to drive sideways, and can be fun/surefooted w/a massaged suspension. It has one of my favorite interiors of all time. I may eat my words and own one at some point, just because I feel like it's one of the purer modern cars out there, especially from BMW. RWD only, single button defeat-able traction/stability, etc.

12/2/2010 12:35:35 AM

I like 'em.

I will say that I haven't yet owned one, though...maybe my enthusiasm would be dampened if I drove it every day.

12/2/2010 12:38:49 AM

I mean, relatively speaking "I like them" too, in the sea of cars out there, but it's below too many cars that I'd want to own, and that's a shame.

12/2/2010 12:44:43 AM

the sea of cars i would rather own in that price range runs too deep.
Unfortunate but true... now ... an s52 in an e30 yeah i'd be all over that 2500lbs of trying to kill me.

12/2/2010 6:51:47 AM

Ahmet,

I see what you are trying to say. S54 is definitely a harsh motor that sounds more metallic and mechanical than anything out there near its limits. I like that! Hell, when I first revved it to 8k I thought it will disintegrate to million pieces. To me personally, whether you call it free revving or rev happy is almost the same...we are playing with words at that point. I still think the car loves to rev, but it is the audible feedback that is far from smooth and I would argue most people will be hesitant to rev it up if they are not used to it or haven't driven the car for a length of time.

Agree that both S62 and S52 are both smoother and quieter to redline without much drama, I just don't associate that smoothness to car's ability to rev, as 90% of consumer cars are very much the same. E46 makes its power at the very peak of rev range, which def attributes to that craziness up top. S2000 feels the same to me and I like it.

On liking the car itself...I know you are not fond of them, but if you do like E36 and E90, this would be almost the perfect compromise. It is not as fat as E90, interior will not fall apart as in E36 and engine has decent power. It is definitely not as tossable as E36, but it makes a way better DD.

My only gripe with the car is 30k valve adjustments, 200lb of extra weight and subframe problem. Speaking of latter, I am driving a '10 accord rental for almost a month now, as mine is being repaired for subframe crack! At least they are doing it for free, after the class action lawsuit. I just don't like the fact they are using epoxy to fix it instead of welding steel plates, but it is better than nothing...

12/2/2010 9:13:58 AM

s2k is very inviting to redline. It sounds buzzy past idle so it doesn't really scare you. The k20 in those civic si's begs to be redlined.

12/2/2010 10:14:21 AM

I was going to say, how does the M3's engine compare to the S2000's in its sound as it approaches redline?

I've never driven an M3 but I've heard several driven in anger and I thought the exhaust note was just horrible

12/2/2010 11:03:20 AM

My 84 f150 however does not like to be revved.

12/2/2010 11:14:58 AM

Quote :

"I was going to say, how does the M3's engine compare to the S2000's in its sound as it approaches redline?"

Quote :

"when I first revved it to 8k I thought it will disintegrate to million pieces. "

12/2/2010 11:29:24 AM

rasp is kind of cool!!! it sounds like a loose heat shield but i still like it

[Edited on December 2, 2010 at 11:29 AM. Reason : .]

12/2/2010 11:29:39 AM

in my experience s2000's don't sound very happy near redline. they'll do it all day long but they are very coarse, as you'd expect from an inline 4. BMW's current/recent V10 on the other hand feels smooth up top based on my experience with the M5.

I prefer a boxer or a rotary at high rpm. They feel the most smooth and effortless.

12/2/2010 1:05:59 PM

Guys. The e46 sheds happy tears above 6k. You think that it's unhappy, but I promise...it's a fit of joy.

12/2/2010 1:18:16 PM

add to the list of dislikes... recent slew of posts on forums about loose or worse, sheared vanos bolts. it appears it happens more on '04 and up cars. it's like with any other car...always some problem area.
on the other end it is truly a great winter car with good st of winter tires.

12/2/2010 1:59:59 PM

^ you know who makes great winter cars?

Subaru! Lol

12/2/2010 2:36:57 PM

they do, but i like my front wheels only to steer!

awd is good only for getting you out of the snow initially. once you are moving there are no advantages over fwd or rwd. then, tires become limiting factor. ill take rwd with snow tires any day over awd with all seasons. all seasons take considerably longer to stop than winter tires.

12/2/2010 2:53:19 PM

Quote :

"ill take rwd with snow tires any day over awd with all seasons. all seasons take considerably longer to stop than winter tires."

12/2/2010 4:34:18 PM

No shit Sherlock but apples to apples winter tires on an awd car.. nothing compares in the snow not even SUVs and trucks.

awd has the off throttle oversteer and on throttle point and shoot that rwd won't ever have. Also in snow sometimes the front wheels acting like rudders isn't enough they need to have some power going to them to change direction (think jetski).

I'm not going to lie a good heavy car with a decent traction control system isn't bad in the snow but an awd car with snow tires is almost unaffected.

12/2/2010 5:38:47 PM

I live in Boston and rarely you see an AWD vehicle with winter tires. People almost decide on AWD car just so they can avoid the hassle of switching between summer and winter setup. If anything I see STI and EVOs on winter setups since they come with summer tires from factory, so they are pretty much forced to change out. Run-of-the-mill consumer AWD cars almost all ride on all seasons. On the contrary, you see a lot of fwd and rwd cars with winter tires. I agree that like for like, AWD is the best in snow, but reality is that most people with AWD never get winter tires.

Winter accidents don't come as a result of people being stuck in the snow. It is exclusively from not having the right tires that can reduce braking distance in ice/sleet weather. When it hits 10F here all season tires are worthless regardless of drivetrain setup.

[Edited on December 2, 2010 at 6:54 PM. Reason : f]

12/2/2010 6:51:26 PM

yeah... you live in boston how often do the roads get truely horrid in boston?... i'm from BFE lake affect snow new york (an hour north of watertown) where there isn't quite enough plows and it can snow 6' over night.

I'd agree that many accidents are because of reduced braking distances but awd cars also maintain stability in turns better than rwd cars.

12/2/2010 7:05:24 PM

more or less

AWD+snow tires > RWD+snow tires > FWD+snow tires > AWD on all season tires

One of my best friends lives in Boston and moved there from NYC. He had to buy a vehicle and I suggested an Impreza. He just has all season tires on it.

12/2/2010 8:19:22 PM

AWD+snow tires > RWD+snow tires > FWD+snow tires > AWD on other tires (some agressive summer tires work better on snow/ice than all season) > FWD + other tires > RWD + other tires

rwd cars with "other tires" can't hardly move forwards without going sideways some.

12/2/2010 8:25:49 PM

Yeah, my Evo IX (with all 3 diffs being limited slip) was pretty underwhelming on snow with summer tires (don't remember if they were Advans or Azenis).

12/2/2010 8:27:36 PM

Nothing is scarier than missing a shift in a Big Block Chevy.

12/2/2010 9:20:54 PM

^ it YELLS at you lol

12/2/2010 11:34:44 PM

Quote :

"AWD+snow tires > RWD+snow tires > FWD+snow tires > AWD on all season tires "

Are you on crack? FWD kicks the shit out of RWD in the snow. weight on the drive wheels and a tendency to understeer is a good thing... when's the last time you saw a RWD rally car? lol

I'll be driving my GTI w/ factory max performance all seasons all winter here in Boston. I wouldn't consider it with RWD. All seasons w/ a FWD were fine last year (except for my one rally excursion off an off ramp, but hey). Here's to hoping

12/2/2010 11:47:05 PM

Does master 2 shits not have any snow plows? cause yall act like its terrible conditions when it snows and i know in NY any decent city has the roads clear in hours.

12/3/2010 6:31:54 AM

^its pretty much fine everywhere within hours, yeh. i park on the street in the city and shoveling out and getting out of the snow bank created by the snow plow is a hassle but doable. Then outside the city, it gets a little worse. All of my oh-shit moments in the snow have been near where i work which is 25 miles north of Boston.

But overall, not bad enough for me to spend $700 on snow tires/wheels with a FWD car imo. Its def not like Buffalo or something.

12/3/2010 8:01:33 AM

Size D boobs > Size C Boobs > Size B Boobs > Size DD boobs > Size A boobs > Size F Boobs

AND DON'T TRY TO ARGUE WITH ME MOTHER FUCKERS BECASUE I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG!!

12/3/2010 8:44:32 AM

^^The only advantage FWD has over RWD in the snow is starting from a stop. Thats when the weight helps you. The rest of the time its a disadvantage b/c the chassis is unbalanced. And most oversteer tendencies are removed with traction/stability control. Over the years there have been plenty of RWD rally cars.

[Edited on December 3, 2010 at 9:09 AM. Reason : k]

12/3/2010 9:08:14 AM

^^

Size C > Size D > Size B > Size A > Size DD

12/3/2010 9:39:34 AM

^^no way. have you ever driven a RWD car in the snow or dirt? they don't turn for shit. The front wheels just rudder and plow sideways. they need some go to grip with really low traction. FWD accelerates and turns relatively well. i've never had typical FWD dynamic handling issues at "oh shit its slippery" speeds.

12/3/2010 8:56:28 PM

I dunno - my e46 M3 was plenty inviting. It seems to me that you like your cars with a city-bound power band - which is fine. It is just a matter of personal taste.

By comparison, the reasons you put forth as an argument against the s54 are all reasons I liked it.

I would say most people would make the argument against an e30 m3 as well.

12/12/2010 6:30:08 PM