Should the private lives of politicians be any of our business, if whatever they do happens on their own time with their own resources and doesn't break the law?

6/7/2011 12:48:11 PM

Generally, I only care about the way a politician votes. Their personal life has no effect on me, though tabloid-style reporting on politicians often serves as a distraction from the issues that actually matter.

While I don't consider exchanging lewd pics/sexting via cell phone a particularly egregious act, I think this kind of behavior from politicians is telling. I would compare the current culture to that of the Roman empire prior to its decline; debauchery became the norm. Public office stopped being about civil service, doing the best thing for the people, or standing on principle; politicians were simply looking to extract whatever they could from a position of power, be it wealth or sex. This tends to be the case regardless of culture or political stability, though it becomes more pronounced as political power becomes more lucrative than it should be.

6/7/2011 1:35:46 PM

^good answer.

Im more troubled with them lying about it. If you lie about this, what wont you lie about?

Weiner's case is great. He spends almost a week attacking reporters for questioning his story, claims to be the victim, then admits to lying. The press eat that shit up. His name is just a bonus.

Quote :

" doesn't break the law"

perjury is breaking the law.

[Edited on June 7, 2011 at 1:45 PM. Reason : .]

6/7/2011 1:44:39 PM

It's not perjury unless it's under oath in a court of law.

6/7/2011 1:57:03 PM

^I was talking about clinton, not weiner.

6/7/2011 2:00:30 PM

Hmmm...if I'm being honest, I suppose I do care a little bit about this stuff. For example, if a politician has multiple babies from his extramarital affairs...it's certainly none of my business, but if I became aware of it, I doubt I'd be able to totally ignore it. I wouldn't run around hollering for a resignation, but their personal life is going to shade my perception of their political work at least a little bit.

6/7/2011 2:03:06 PM

Quote :

"debauchery became the norm"

It is.

6/7/2011 2:07:19 PM

I'm ok with people of less than noble character running our country

6/7/2011 2:07:46 PM

Debauchery has always been the norm, we just hear/see it alot more and a lot faster today.

Jefferson had children with his slaves.

6/7/2011 2:15:51 PM

Yeah, but Jefferson never lied about it under oath.

So Jefferson is good, and Clinton is bad.

AHAHAHA

6/7/2011 2:32:37 PM

^know you are rolling your eyes, but surely you can see the difference.

6/7/2011 2:42:20 PM

^^ I thought we were talking about debauchery.

[Edited on June 7, 2011 at 2:43 PM. Reason : ^^]

6/7/2011 2:43:23 PM

As long as they don't play the morality card (run on family values, push the family values agenda, etc.), their behavior doesn't directly impact their work, they're not doing anything illegal, and they don't flaunt it for the tabloids, I don't really care what they do in their own free time.

Quote :

"Public office stopped being about civil service, doing the best thing for the people, or standing on principle; politicians were simply looking to extract whatever they could from a position of power, be it wealth or sex."

How is this any different than the last two hundred plus years of American history? Even a cursory look brings up plenty of examples of people profiteering off of government connections, putting buddies into the civil service to curry favor and reward supporters, passing legislation to support whatever special interest their aligned with, former generals using military connections for private business, etc. The only thing that's really changed is the scale (which grew with our nation) and how quickly and broadly it's known (better communications and journalism).

6/7/2011 3:23:20 PM

^^No, we were talking about something that happened twelve years ago where Clinton may or may not have perjured himself.

But we're going to pretend that he definitely perjured himself and that it was some horrible injustice that he was acquitted and that the Starr investigation/impeachment was justified. Because we're fucking douchebags.

6/7/2011 3:39:31 PM

I don't care about the moral aspect of it too much, but I am concerned with the judgment aspect.

If some teenage girl sends naked phone pics to her boyfriend, I think maybe she's not a genius -- those pictures get out pretty often. A major American politician starts sending naked pics to random women through the internet? I think he's a goddamn moron.

Think about it. This is a grown-ass man with an important, high profile job who knows that there are lots of people out there who would love to destroy his political career, possibly at the expense of his family staying together. He knows this, and he's so desperate to have people look at his dick that he sends these pictures out anyway? Either he's a moron or he's got profound psychological issues, either of which makes me seriously question his judgment.

Making matters worse is the way these things always tend to compound themselves into a whole series of bad judgments: The pics, which were dumb; yelling at the press for asking about the pics, which is dumb; concocting the preposterous series of lies and evasions he used for a week that nobody believed and undermined his credibility even further, which was dumb beyond comprehension.

It's similar in that regards to my thoughts on John Edwards:

Quote :

"Really, what Edwards has done is pile on several examples of shitty behavior which, by themselves, I might be able to overlook. Cheating on your wife? I can live with that. It's really between you and the missus(es). Having an illegitimate child? Not such a big deal. Lying about an illegitimate child? Kind of lame, but could easily be outweighed by good public work. Exploiting your wife's terminal cancer for political gain? OK, even more lame, but when life hands you lemons... But cheating on your terminal-cancer wife that you exploit in an affair that produces an illegitimate child that you lie about...that makes me certain that you would do absolutely anything and everything to gain power for power's sake."

6/7/2011 4:14:48 PM

6/7/2011 4:19:43 PM

Another example of a moron. I'm sorry, but you either get to be a national politician or you get to have anonymous gay sex in bathrooms. You do not get both.

6/7/2011 4:20:32 PM

I'm not sure poor sexuality judgment means poor judgment in the political arena.

It might if someone gets turgid during discussions of legislation.

6/7/2011 4:23:14 PM

He's a politician. Everything he does is in the political arena. He knows that if he gets busted smoking pole in the airport bathroom that his career is toast. He is willing to risk his entire life's work to get his nut? That worries me. It makes me wonder what else he might do.

My theory is, if you're willing to lose your job and family in horrible disgrace over some sexual practice, it's not a huge jump to outright corruption or even worse crimes for the same reason.

6/7/2011 4:29:11 PM

^Should we then investigate the private lives of corporate executives?

6/7/2011 4:38:45 PM

Quote :

"My theory is, if you're willing to lose your job and family in horrible disgrace over some sexual practice, it's not a huge jump to outright corruption or even worse crimes for the same reason."

Because people really consider the consequences when they're enslaved by sin.

6/7/2011 4:46:48 PM

I am having trouble finding fault with anything Weiner has done, except putting too much trust in that twitter follower.

Sure, his wife might not be happy about him looking at other naked women. But, until he starts having physical contact with other women, she should be mildly annoyed at worst.

6/7/2011 4:47:18 PM

Quote :

""[I]f you go back to the year 2000, when we had an obvious disaster and - and saw that our voting process needed refinement, and we did that in the America Votes Act and made sure that we could iron out those kinks, now you have the Republicans, who want to literally drag us all the way back to Jim Crow laws and literally - and very transparently - block access to the polls to voters who are more likely to vote Democratic candidates than Republican candidates. And it's nothing short of that blatant," DNC Chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL) told TVOne's "Washington Week.""

Well according to her every Republican is racist. FIE; FIE ON YOU REPUBLICANS.

6/7/2011 4:56:36 PM

Quote :

"Think about it. This is a grown-ass man with an important, high profile job who knows that there are lots of people out there who would love to destroy his political career, possibly at the expense of his family staying together. He knows this, and he's so desperate to have people look at his dick that he sends these pictures out anyway? Either he's a moron or he's got profound psychological issues, either of which makes me seriously question his judgment."

Or maybe we should all stop being such stuck up prudes. He should have just admitted to it and said "Yea, I sent those pics. Big friggin whoop - you got something bigger?

6/7/2011 4:56:47 PM

Quote :

"He knows this, and he's so desperate to have people look at his dick that he sends these pictures out anyway?"

He probably should've just gone to Chatroulette.

6/7/2011 4:59:12 PM

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"Should we then investigate the private lives of corporate executives?"

"We?" I'm not saying "we" should investigate anybody. But in politics -- as, I suspect, in the corporate world -- relationships are often adversarial, and if those adversaries want to seek out and exploit bad behavior in one another, I think they're within their rights. That is to say, there isn't much incentive for you or I, or often even the press, to do a lot of snooping in anybody's private life. But somewhere out there, someone does have an incentive: a conservative blogger who wants to take Weiner down, a corporate higher up who doesn't like one of his colleagues for whatever reason, etc. If they uncover something, by all means let them share it, and let us react to it.

Quote :

"Because people really consider the consequences when they're enslaved by sin."

I want my representatives to consider consequences at a higher level than "Maybe this dude wants to suck my penis in this stall."

Quote :

"Or maybe we should all stop being such stuck up prudes."

Maybe we should, but that's neither here nor there. The quality of your judgment isn't based on how it would work in an ideal world, it's based on how it works in this one.

[Edited on June 7, 2011 at 5:02 PM. Reason : ]

6/7/2011 5:01:15 PM

Quote :

"I want my representatives to consider consequences at a higher level than "Maybe this dude wants to suck my penis in this stall.""

Oh by all means. I wasn't saying he was a fit candidate.

6/7/2011 5:02:31 PM

Quote :

"Maybe we should, but that's neither here nor there. The quality of your judgment isn't based on how it would work in an ideal world, it's based on how it works in this one."

True.

However, you can't use such a minor hormonal indiscretion to make any determination about his legislative performance. I doubt he's voting with his penis.

6/7/2011 5:21:06 PM

Quote :

"That is to say, there isn't much incentive for you or I, or often even the press, to do a lot of snooping in anybody's private life."

As an employee or a stockholder, shouldn't I know if the married CEO of Exxon is having homosexual orgies?


Because, if your hyposthesis holds true:

Quote :

"My theory is, if you're willing to lose your job and family in horrible disgrace over some sexual practice, it's not a huge jump to outright corruption or even worse crimes for the same reason."

Then the CEO is not going to be competent or qualified enough to hold that position.

6/7/2011 5:32:08 PM

Quote :

"where Clinton may or may not have perjured himself. "

Wow. I suppose the twin towers may still be standing too.

You should also learn your history.

BTW, the correct response for Clinton was "it is none of your business". That is not breaking any law.

6/7/2011 6:24:01 PM

Yeah, you're right. I definitely need to bone up on the precise details of Clinton's testimony and really work through pressing matters, like whether or not cigar-vag contact meets the court's definition of sexual relations.

In fact, wish I could have been an adult at the time and gotten to hoot and holler over every salacious, leaked detail as it happened!

Then 12 years later, I could still be talking about it and telling young people that they need to learn their history.

6/7/2011 8:10:17 PM

Obviously , no one cares or is surprised that a middle aged ugly dude wants to get his dick sucked by a girl he never could have gotten in high school.

The bottom line is most politicians have overachieved greatly. They honestly can't believe they've made so much money, have so much power, etc since they were one of those people that never bothered getting a real job.

Now they have women willing to fuck them? What do you want them to do, not fuck them? That's unrealistic.


Who cares what they do in their spare time... but if they're a piece of shit like this Weiner guy? He should fucking fry.

He's made a living off of screwing ordinary Americans for his own personal wealth and power. Why wouldnt anyone care to find out that he's also a cheat and a liar?

Laugh my sac off at Nancy Pelosi being offended. She gets rich by giving private government information to her asset manager husband and then spends millions of taxpayer dollars on her private airplane parties, but she's outraged that guys like young pussy. Typical of an old woman.

Newsflash: Guys like pussy, congressmen are shady as fuck.

Back to the real world.

6/8/2011 12:22:12 AM

Quote :

"However, you can't use such a minor hormonal indiscretion to make any determination about his legislative performance."

And -- as I tried to imply -- I don't. At least, not directly. But a man who is willing to destroy everything he has worked for over a blowjob (or whatever sexual thing we want to put in here) strikes me as awfully likely to destroy other things over the same incentive. If it stops at his own career, well, fuck it, I don't care who gets themselves ostracized. But I do confess that I worry he might be willing to offer up a little bit more -- be that his own willingness to vote for certain things, state secrets, what have you.

I may be alone in thinking that the difference between "the destruction of your entire life's work and family" and "the destruction of your entire life's work and family, and some prison time" is not huge.

Quote :

"As an employee or a stockholder, shouldn't I know if the married CEO of Exxon is having homosexual orgies? "

Yes, you should, and for the reason stated. My assumption was that somewhere on the chain of command (or possibly within a competing corporation) there would be someone with a much more acute incentive into researching such things. I don't expect you or I, as regular citizens, to investigate the personal lives of everybody "above" us in terms of political or corporate life. Turns out, someone already exists who already has those motivations.

6/8/2011 1:48:45 AM

This "the way the world is" argument is bullshit.

It'd be like saying 60 years ago we should have investigated whether a congressman or ceo was having a relationship with a black woman. It's also like saying we should fault a congressman for being openly gay or an atheist (since these do currently have career consequences)

6/8/2011 8:52:15 AM

^^The fact that there are a lot of prudes in this country doesn't mean it's appropriate to pander to them. Peoples perceptions aren't going to change until after the rules are broken. For example, fhe fact that most bus-riders did not want Rosa parks to sit in the front is not justification against her sitting there.


I'm not saying Weiner is some social revolutionary. Clearly he tried to weasel out of it. I'm just saying the action itself was harmless and shame on anyone who thinks otherwise. Also, I think there's a big separation between committing adultery (your example of a "blow-job") and sending a picture of your clothed groin over the internet. That's about as debaucherous as DVRing The Hangover.

Edit: Frankly, the fact that he knows how to take a picture of his junk, transfer it to his PC, upload it to the internet AND tweet said upload to a pretty follower tells me that he is a lot smarter than the average congressman.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

6/8/2011 9:36:38 AM

This kind of thing will become less important as more old people die.

Our generation will probably focus on job performance exclusively.

Not weiners.

[Edited on June 8, 2011 at 10:16 AM. Reason : ...]

6/8/2011 10:16:14 AM

6/8/2011 10:54:36 AM

Quote :

"It'd be like saying 60 years ago we should have investigated whether a congressman or ceo was having a relationship with a black woman. It's also like saying we should fault a congressman for being openly gay or an atheist (since these do currently have career consequences)"

Risking your career over civil rights or your beliefs =/= risking your career over your boner.

Quote :

"Also, I think there's a big separation between committing adultery (your example of a "blow-job") and sending a picture of your clothed groin over the internet."

And here we differ. Incidentally, good luck in your future relationships, you're gonna need it.

6/8/2011 11:30:02 AM

Quote :

"I definitely need to bone up"

/thread

6/8/2011 11:42:35 AM