I'm really not sure that the Apple LED Cinema Display is worth it... I'm looking for suggestions for a substitute that's close and more affordable than this... Thoughts and suggestions?

9/15/2011 3:27:42 AM

What you plan on using it for? $1299 for one monitor is a tall order to invest in.

Look at HP and Dell 30" offerings. IMO, both are superior over the apple crap monitors. I'd be more inclined towards HP but you can't go wrong with either. That is if you are looking for a 2560x1600 IPS matte monitor for more accurate colors than lower res TN alternatives... and if you got the money for one.

You should also check out HP's 27" LED IPS monitor for 729. I believe its the only LED backlit IPS monitor that isn't 24" or less. I haven't read up on the reviews for them, but if its similar to the 30" non-LED version, it should be pretty badass.

9/15/2011 5:30:48 AM

actually i just picked up the 27 LED Cinema display for $899 at B&H (no tax). I expect the price will drop more soon as Thunderbolt models start shipping, but they have a 30 day price guarantee.

I wanted to scoop one up before the Thunderbolt displays started shipping as I wanted to be able to use it with both my gaming PC and my Macbook Pro.

It's absolutely gorgeous....crisp and incredibly sharp. Before it, I had tried a Dell U2412M and the difference is like night and day. Primarily because of the horrible anti-glare coating Dell puts on their monitors. I was shocked to see the difference in clarity, vibrancy, and smoothness of colors (no sparkly effect on whites). To me, it's worth every cent and I went back through some of my Photo/Video portfolio and was shocked to see how beautifully the pieces were displayed.

In terms of substitutes, there is a Dell 27...but it has that terrible coating. I think it's a very good monitor if you hate glossy displays (like most people do).

The 27 Cinema is the only glossy IPS on the market besides one you can import from Europe. I purchased it specifically because of this......so that being said, understand I <3 glossy displays.

9/15/2011 9:08:54 AM

Quote :

"To me, it's worth every cent and I went back through some of my Photo/Video portfolio and was shocked to see how beautifully the pieces were displayed."

Yeah and beautifully inaccurate. Glossy makes colors look saturated and fake. I don't mind it on my laptop but I'd hate it on a large display. I love the Dell monitors.

I haven't tried the U2412M but I just got a U2410 as a replacement for my 2408 and I prefer it over the 27" Cinema displays. Of course the U2412M is not as good a monitor as the U2410 so I can't say anything but I'd shoot myself if I had to use a Glossy screen that big every day.

Hey if you're interested in a gaming monitor (TN) check out the Acer HN274H. I'm loving it. Barely any input lag compared to the IPS Dell and Apple displays. I love them for color reproduction but they're slow compared to TN panels.

I've been gaming with my mouth open for the last couple days on how much nicer a 120hz TN panel is than an IPS for gaming.

9/15/2011 10:11:14 AM

I need to see this acer in person one day.

9/15/2011 10:14:36 AM

Maybe it's because I've been on S-PVA/IPS monitors but switching to a TN for gaming is a world of difference especially at 120hz. It brings me back to the days of CRTs.

9/15/2011 10:24:09 AM

The U2412M isn't bad at all....I just hate the coating, but about 99.99% will never notice. Here is a link regarding AG coating on Dells if you are interested (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1512279)

Most of this is down to personal preference, really.....to me a 27 inch 1080/1200p TN monitor would be punishment....those are some big pixels, plus I bet it gets...sub-optimal....with limited vertical viewing angels.

To OP...I suggest you try them out yourself. Dell has an excellent return policy. I purchased the U2412M and wasn't happy, they gladly refunded the cash. Go to the Apple store and check out the display there and see if its to your liking.

Some people prefer flat, strict color reproduction and others prefer more pop and definition. It's much like high-end headphones that produce entirely faithful sound versus those that are maybe not as correct but are more "fun" to listen to. Depends on your purpose.

Let's just say games like TF2 and WoW look absolutely beautiful with the saturation and pop that a glossy display gives!

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 10:30 AM. Reason : link]

9/15/2011 10:27:23 AM

Quote :

"to me a 27 inch 1080/1200p TN monitor would be punishment....those are some big pixels, plus I bet it gets...sub-optimal....with limited vertical viewing angels."

It all depends how far you sit back from it. It is a little weird next to my 24" 1920 by 1200p monitors. The viewing angles aren't as great as the Dell's but it's fine sitting at my desk.

All I'm saying is I had the same opinion about a TN monitor before buying it then got it and will never go back to IPS for gaming due to the input lag. It feels like my mouse is drunk now when using one.

So I guess don't try a TN monitor then and you won't know what you're missing.

9/15/2011 10:37:01 AM

honestly thats the approach i am taking now with 120hz

When a glossy 120hz IPS display is on the market...I will be the first to order

9/15/2011 10:39:41 AM

Yeah but there's still going to be input lag.

Input lag and frequency are 2 very different things.

You could spray a matte IPS display with this:



And then it would be glossy.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 10:52 AM. Reason : s]

9/15/2011 10:51:25 AM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=472002&page=55

Cross reference with additional debate TN v IPS

9/15/2011 11:06:31 AM

i never got the whole input lag thing....i've never had a problem with that and i've gamed exclusively on VA panels.

9/15/2011 11:12:11 AM

Quote :

"i never got the whole input lag thing....i've never had a problem with that and i've gamed exclusively on VA panels."

To put it simply it's the time it takes your mouse movement to get to the screen.

Here's a good example of input lag:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOGHUBakFoo&feature=youtu.be&t=41s

I did that on my Acer TN versus my Dell 2410 (H-IPS) and the Dell was SLOW. I imagine it's the same on the Apple cinema display.

IPS panels just aren't as responsive as TN panels. That's why serious gamer use TN panels. Again you may not know what you're missing until you have something better. So don't try one or do and buy it.

9/15/2011 11:19:26 AM

i thought it was input lag and response time

input lag is due to scalers and internal electronics --> apple panel has no scaler

response time is def. higher on IPS panels. I think for a 12ms response time panel, you couldn't technically go higher than 83hz or something due to the lag

9/15/2011 11:41:16 AM

The input lag on my H-IPS Dell is pretty noticeable compared to the TN.

Don't know about the newer Apple 27". The older one had noticible input lag:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3946/apple-27inch-led-cinema-display-review/7

Did they change the technology in it since the last (2010) model?

As far as response time goes:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ultrasharp-u2711-ds-277w-multisync-pa271w,2968-14.html

Quote :

"I think for a 12ms response time panel"

Isn't that a little high? The dell 2410 is 6ms and most TN panels are 2-5.

I'm just saying for gaming there's much better options out there. It's going to look crappy compared to a 2ms, 120hz panel.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 12:30 PM. Reason : s]

9/15/2011 12:27:23 PM

I'll put my HP ZR24W up against just about any sub-$1000 monitor out there.

9/15/2011 1:01:17 PM

Quote :

"I'll put my HP ZR24W up against just about any sub-$1000 monitor out there."

For what? First of all it's an older S-IPS panel. The newer panels use H-IPS and have slightly better contrast/viewing angles I believe. Plus something like a U2410 has a higher color gamut.

Not exactly a gaming monitor either. Going to lose against faster 120hz 2ms panels.

-although I guess it is a decent gaming monitor. Low input lag from reviews.

Quote :

"i thought it was input lag and response time input lag is due to scalers and internal electronics --> apple panel has no scaler"

Did some more reading on this. The lack of the scaler greatly reduces the input lag so yes it will have less lag compared to your U2410 but still slightly more than a TN panel. Either way probably not noticeable at all. Still exists though.

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 1:20 PM. Reason : s]

9/15/2011 1:08:40 PM

it definitely will not look crappy next to a TN display

it may feel crappier to you, but most people can't notice a few milliseconds in response time

9/15/2011 1:18:36 PM

Quote :

"it definitely will not look crappy next to a TN display it may feel crappier to you, but most people can't notice a few milliseconds in response time"

I was talking more about the 120hz versus the 60hz than the input lag/response time.

After gaming in 120hz there's no way I could go back to 60hz no matter how nice the monitor is. Big difference.

9/15/2011 1:21:35 PM

yes 120hz is very different

if i could find the 120hz Asus locally (and possibly returnable), I would write a compare contrast

9/15/2011 1:25:30 PM

This is all great feedback! Thanks everyone! I think I'll have to see the Acer in person. I think I was trying to get over the Apple label, because while I love apple, and their monitor looks really awesome, sometimes there stuff is way to expensive... I could save up for them, but... I need a monitor now...

9/15/2011 1:26:01 PM

don't get the Cinema Display unless you really love glossy or need 2560x1440.

It is very fairly priced for a 2560x1440 monitor, but unless you need that resolution get something cheaper.

I paid the premium because I love glossy IPS over everything else....unless that is most important there are better options

9/15/2011 1:29:04 PM

I just couldn't bring myself to get the 27" Apple. It feels like the retarded step child of the nicer 30" 2560 by 1600 monitor they used to have.

Quote :

"if i could find the 120hz Asus locally (and possibly returnable), I would write a compare contrast"

My initial thought was - hey image quality on my IPS is still going to win out in gaming but then after turning on 120hz that easily won me over.

Yes once 120hz IPS LED backlit monitors come out I'll buy one. Don't know when that day will be though.

9/15/2011 1:39:56 PM

I've got one I'm planning to sell soon with 2 years warranty left. 27 ACD non thunderbolt for $750. Let me know.

9/15/2011 3:18:30 PM

The new HP 27" ZR2740w LED will beat the apple 27" hands down for a much cheaper price and is feature rich. I didn't realize that model literally just came out this week! lol

Can't do portrait mode on apple craptastic monitors. Also cat, you are the only person I know who actually favor glossy over matte... you are definitely the exception in this debate. Yes, we get it, you like glossy... stop staying it 20 times in the same thread. thx

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/09/hp-zr2740w/

[Edited on September 15, 2011 at 3:27 PM. Reason : ]

9/15/2011 3:26:54 PM

someone has a chip on their shoulder

and

9/15/2011 3:31:00 PM

Yeah but the Cinema display is purrtttty!

9/15/2011 3:36:44 PM

Pretty is subjective and part of behaviorism. We are on evolutionary prospective models.

9/15/2011 3:42:07 PM