How has this become an issue again?

2/23/2012 12:32:12 AM

Lol

2/23/2012 1:29:15 AM

I literally can't believe this has been talked about in any capacity in a primary or even in general at all. What year is this?

2/23/2012 7:58:55 AM

44% of Americans still believe that the Earth and all the animals were created as is less than 10,000 years ago. Why is anyone surprised by the prevalence of social cro-magnons?

2/23/2012 8:44:14 AM

Personally I'm more concerned about all these women I see in the workplace lately. Don't employers realize the feminine psyche is inherently unstable and prone to hysteria?

2/23/2012 9:13:26 AM

^^ source?

2/23/2012 9:17:25 AM

Right-wingers need something to focus on other than the destructive, insane downward spiral of the GOP

2/23/2012 9:17:36 AM

^^ here is A source (its from 2010 and its a survey so take it as you will)

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/laurilebo/3952/40%25_of_americans_still_believe_in_creationism

2/23/2012 9:32:06 AM

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/Evolution-Creationism-Intelligent-Design.aspx

Good news though, looks like it's down to 40%.

2/23/2012 9:38:07 AM

OMG only 16% of the US believes in Evolution in its true form

2/23/2012 4:05:23 PM

Well, give the "with God guiding" people some credit. They at least accept the evidence put forth by science. They just can't let go of their god. Also, they cherry-pick the fuck out of their holy book.

2/23/2012 4:27:17 PM

Hell, there are people who still give reverence to spiritual forces within nature, which is actually the oldest of religions going back to the development of humans. I have a harder time believing in one, ever present, all-seeing sky daddy than I do in those.

2/23/2012 5:02:51 PM

Quote :

"OMG only 16% of the US believes in Evolution in its true form"

i wonder what % of those are agnostic vs atheist

remember guys: christian religion is 100% evil. instead of fostering things like love, support, caring for the needy and sick, and family... it is totally hell bent on a totalitarian state of govt.




[Edited on February 23, 2012 at 8:17 PM. Reason : -]

2/23/2012 8:02:37 PM

Quote :

"instead of fostering things like love, support, caring for the needy and sick, and family"

You can do all of that without religion.

Quote :

"it is totally hell bent on a totalitarian state of govt."

Religion isn't necessary for the above quote...but it sure helps

2/23/2012 8:48:40 PM

Birth Control issue should not rise again until humans are endanger of extinction.

2/23/2012 9:22:07 PM

Quote :

"i wonder what % of those are agnostic vs atheist"

What does this question have to do with anything? Often those two terms are interchangeable anyway.

Quote :

"remember guys: christian religion is 100% evil. instead of fostering things like love, support, caring for the needy and sick, and family... it is totally hell bent on a totalitarian state of govt. "

Have you had a stroke?

What the Christian religion is responsible for is 40% of Americans being fucking retarded regarding science and a similar number being fucking retarded on social issues.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 10:04 AM. Reason : gerunds]

2/24/2012 10:03:56 AM

No it's impossible to compel people to do good things without threatening them with a dunk in the lake of fire.

2/24/2012 10:34:34 AM

remember guys:

keep believing what the media says about christianity. it's all a big hoax to get totalitarian leadership in place and warp your minds into a sad state of existence.

that's why it teaches and promotes, love, family, humility, hard work, honest, patience, and peace (well not most muslims currently and I don't speak for them... and i'll trade the inquisition to your atheist stalin since both 'sides' have obviously screw up)

2/24/2012 10:35:52 AM

yo pack bryan open a history book for the love of fucking christ

spend 2 hours a weekend at the ncsu library or something, please. fucking please.

2/24/2012 10:39:04 AM

Quote :

"What the Christian religion is responsible for is 40% of Americans being fucking retarded regarding science and a similar number being fucking retarded on social issues."

i'm sure a guy like you won't be truthfully happy until every family that goes to church with kids and 2 parents is completely wiped from existence in the universe

maybe one day you'll get your way.. but evolution and it's survival with the 'normal' family structure and organizations that promote love of neighbors and families have prevented that for 10's of thousands of years. so good luck swimming upstream.

2/24/2012 10:40:31 AM

ha now you're just ranting and going absolutely nuts since you obviously refuse to accept that people can be happy based on religious teachings.

birth control (which was seeded by obama last month into the media discussion) doesn't belong in law books. neither does abortion. neither do a lot of things.

you'll continue your ranting and going nuts until you come to that realization

2/24/2012 10:47:04 AM

This thread's about birth control, you know, a woman's right to sovereignty over her own body. Not peace love and caring. So why don't you stop trying to vaguely pump up Christianity and instead talk about the actual issue at hand, its political drives to actively repress and assault the liberties of women.

2/24/2012 10:55:02 AM

^are all atheists as illiterate as they are vengeful?

2/24/2012 10:56:26 AM

Quote :

"that's why it teaches and promotes, love, family, humility, hard work, honest, patience, and peace (well not most muslims currently and I don't speak for them... and i'll trade the inquisition to your atheist stalin since both 'sides' have obviously screw up)"

Stalin wasn't a dick because some atheist holy book told him to be one. He was a dick because he was a power-hungry totalitarian obsessed with maintaining a dogmatic regime.. Sounds a lot like a religion to me.

Quote :

"i'm sure a guy like you won't be truthfully happy until every family that goes to church with kids and 2 parents is completely wiped from existence in the universe "

I don't want anyone wiped from existence. I want their stupid ideas wiped from existence and replaced with better ideas, more aligned with reality, and less likely to fuck things up for the rest of us.

Quote :

"maybe one day you'll get your way.. but evolution and it's survival with the 'normal' family structure and organizations that promote love of neighbors and families have prevented that for 10's of thousands of years. so good luck swimming upstream."

Which has absolutely nothing to do with believing in mysticism. And you're smoking something if you think "normal" family structure is prevalent in this country or the world in general. Or if you think a particular family structure has been constant in this history of this species.

Quote :

"ha now you're just ranting and going absolutely nuts since you obviously refuse to accept that people can be happy based on religious teachings. "

I accept that people can be happy based on religious teachings. I just want them to know the cost of that happiness and that they can be happy without the mysticism and the shit that it brings. People can be happy with heroin as well.

Quote :

"birth control (which was seeded by obama last month into the media discussion) doesn't belong in law books. neither does abortion. neither do a lot of things. "

Yep. Guess why it is. What could possibly motivate Americans to want to dictate what women do with their bodies? In before GrumpyGOP chimes in with "human nature."

Quote :

"you'll continue your ranting and going nuts until you come to that realization"

I'll continue to support reason and counter irrationality until I die probably.

Quote :

"This thread's about birth control, you know, a woman's right to sovereignty over her own body. Not peace love and caring. So why don't you stop trying to vaguely pump up Christianity and instead talk about the actual issue at hand, its political drives to actively repress and assault the liberties of women."

A-fucking-men. I just can't let misinformation stand as the last comment though, lest the trogoldytes think the atheist conceded a point.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 10:57 AM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 10:56:42 AM

oh OK. i get it now.

if it's going to be an all out attack on religion make sure it's against corrupt leaderships that are currently forcing you out of certain freedoms. and feel free to eradicate them at your will. i don't care about the structures.

and while you are certainly free to rant and defecate on peoples personal heartfelt beliefs of loving your neighbor and the possibility of life before birth and after death on the internet under anonymity until your fingers are raw... by all means go ahead... but it doesn't mean you have the right to re-write a lawbook so that we are all living one single social lifestyle that is 'approved' by your cause.

thanks. sincerely,

all libertarians.

2/24/2012 11:05:45 AM

^you keep saying how much love and charity religion spreads and it may do its fair share of that, but you don't need religion for that.

Name one positive thing that religion is the answer for, that you can't find elsewhere. Religion has done a lot of good things, but we didn't need religion to do those good things. But we do need religion to defund science and strip the rights from women and homosexuals.

2/24/2012 11:11:22 AM

^^What are you talking about?

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 11:11 AM. Reason : ^^]

2/24/2012 11:11:41 AM

this is about poor people not getting morning after pills and condoms

why are you ranting and flailing about how much you can't stand people that are active in their communities doing service and helping others?


again: focus your rants on things like sharia law, the vatican, and preachers raping teenagers. not the true followers who simply want to be 'community organizers' like your dear beloved comrade in chief is/was.

2/24/2012 11:15:40 AM

What you don't get pack_bryan is that nobody is trying to stop you and all the other white Christian heteros from having families. Nobody, at all. We're just trying to let people who don't want to do that do other things. Problem is, you and your kind have been treated with privilege and exclusive consideration and benefits from the state and society-at-large for centuries.

As a result, you interpret other lifestyles getting consideration as being an attack on you and some kind of discrimination. It's basically the attitude of a spoiled child throwing a tantrum when he sees a parent buying another child a Baby Ruth bar, even as his mom already bought him a whole fucking bag of Snickers minis.

You can have as much abstinence as you want, and marry and divorce as many women as you want, nobody gives a shit. So stop giving a shit about what other people do, it's none of your fucking business.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 11:19 AM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 11:16:58 AM

You're confusing a war on religion with not always getting your way.

2/24/2012 11:20:02 AM

^^^^^ Yup. Like jumping in a pool after sitting in a sauna, it feels really fuckin cold but in truth it's just room temperature. Just wait until people start (accurately) calling Christianity a death cult, he'll probably shit his pants.

2/24/2012 11:22:14 AM

Quote :

"white christian heteros"

make sure you stop by the 200 black christian congregations this week around the triangle and mention that.

it's obvious that you are behind your keyboard seething in fury at the fact that there are white families that just don't want to pay taxes to fund every single thing that can be thought of

again. your rage at white people and home christian values is aimed at the wrong sources. sharia law is having a hay day in several countries right now taking root.

good job keeping your focus on the 'true evils' of the world.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 11:28 AM. Reason : ,]

2/24/2012 11:22:56 AM

Yeah because gays have been getting their way for ages. And by "their way" I mean "dragged behind trucks."

2/24/2012 11:24:48 AM

man it's almost laughable how bad your aim is with your anti-religion rage

just because some dumb rednecks drag a gay behind his truck..
or some dumb niggers rape a woman...

yep clearly the conclusion is it was their religious affiliation with christianity and their white skin

2/24/2012 11:31:16 AM

I never said it had anything to do with religion that gays are treated like garbage (though to be fair religious arguments seem to back up 90% of anti-gay speech, followed closely by "Ew it's gross" which ranks highly among 7 year olds).

What it does have to do with is your ridiculous assertion that gays know anything about what it's like to "always get their way."

As a white Christian heterosexual male you get your way 99% of the time, society has been structured for your particular enjoyment for thousands of years. Everything you want to do is legal, readily available, and encouraged of you. The only thing that is being attacked is your presumed right to deny other people similar treatment. Again, you are a spoiled child.

None of us give a shit about you practicing your "home Christian values" or whatever. Do so to the fullest extent. What we do give a shit about is your apparent belief that it's your right to turn those values into exclusive restrictions placed on the rest of society.


[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 11:33:04 AM

can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into. That's the problem with religion, they get them young and destroy their mind. The appropriate emotion is pity, not anger. I feel sorry for them, they didn't have a chance.

2/24/2012 11:35:38 AM

haha

again. you guys need to turn your anti-religion religion cannon at the sources of the problems like sharia law, dictators, and huge corrupt religious entities like the vatican

stop pointing your agression at some happy go lucky clueless suburban white families that just want their kids to grow up in peace. i know they're easy targets.. with your idiotic beliefs, but try to keep calm under this huge stress they cause you.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM. Reason : 're]

2/24/2012 11:49:05 AM

Irrationality is the problem. The 'happy go lucky clueless suburban white families' are enablers. Moreover, how they vote, and how they convince their friends and children to vote may have just as much or more of an impact on me and my family as sharia law, dictators, and the vatican.

"Sharia law, dictators, and huge corrupt religious entities like the vatican" as well as the oppression of women and homosexuals are the cost of your comfortable irrational beliefs. Just remember that.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 12:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 12:05:33 PM

You are so pathetic pack_bryan lol

HELP HELP IM BEIN REPRESSED BECAUSE I CANT REPRESS OTHERS TO THE EXTENT I USED TO ;_;

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 12:10 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 12:09:56 PM

I was going to come in here and talk about the constitutionality of forcing companies to offer this stuff. I was also going to ask why in the hell insurance companies don't all cover contraception anyway, since it has to be cheaper than childbirth and the associated complications.

But then I saw that disco_stu shit all over this thread in the forth post and continued to shit all over it while encouraging others to shit all over it for the remainder of this thread's sad, short life.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 1:31 PM. Reason : oh, and the mechanics of manufacturing this issue for the campaign...but instead, shit]

2/24/2012 1:29:44 PM

Quote :

"How has this become an issue again?"

simple: Obama wanted to remind people that there are some religious nutbags in the GOP field, and he's not above using that to his advantage in getting reelected. God knows he can;t run on the economy, lol

2/24/2012 1:32:32 PM

This is what we've come to: aaronburro has posted the closest thing to a relevant response in this thread.

But let's face it, this couldn't have been all -- or even mostly -- Obama's doing. Republicans had to take the bait, and I can't fathom why they did it.

2/24/2012 1:35:49 PM

ITT, aaronburro's misleading biased tripe is a "relevant response" and my response to typical irrational garbage is "shitting on the thread."

Quote :

"Republicans had to take the bait, and I can't fathom why they did it."

I would answer this, but I'd assume instead of addressing it you'll take to dismissing it. Maybe it was their "human nature" that drove them to ardently defend an indefensible position.

Or maybe, just maybe, they're pandering to the 40% of Americans that get their moral teachings from Bronze Age mythology. There, now it's an on-topic response.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 1:57 PM. Reason : misleading might not be the word I was looking for]

2/24/2012 1:48:42 PM

what in the flying fuck is indefensible about the 1st Amendment? just curious...

2/24/2012 1:58:13 PM

I'd normally ask "what about Birth Control is a 1st Amendment issue" but I know that you think parents being allowed to kill their children in the name of religion is also a 1st Amendment issue so we'll just agree to disagree on this one.

2/24/2012 1:59:50 PM

you'd have to be completely ignorant to say that there is no potential 1st Amendment issue at stake when you are talking about forcing people to do something that is specifically covered by a religious belief, and obviously so. No, this isn't "agreeing to disagree," this is you just burying your head in the sand. You don't have to agree with someone else's beliefs in order to acknowledge the existence of said beliefs. I understand, you think you should be able to force your beliefs on others simply because "your beliefs are right". I don't roll that way.

Quote :

"but I know that you think parents being allowed to kill their children in the name of religion"

and when you frame it so dishonestly, it's no wonder that you have your head so far up your ass on the issue at hand

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 2:15 PM. Reason : ]

2/24/2012 2:15:03 PM

I do not think the 1st Amendment guarantees you the right to impose your will on others just because you yell "religion!" while you do it. I believe that precedent agrees. You don't think this. I'm not sure we can get past this.

Quote :

"and when you frame it so dishonestly, it's no wonder that you have your head so far up your ass on the issue at hand "

I don't think it was dishonest, but I'll explain what I believe your position to be more fully. You think that allowing your children to die instead of providing them with life-saving medical care is a 1st Amendment issue. I do not.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2012 2:20:30 PM

Its time to tax the church.

2/24/2012 2:25:48 PM

Quote :

"Maybe it was their "human nature" that drove them to ardently defend an indefensible position. Or maybe, just maybe, they're pandering to the 40% of Americans that get their moral teachings from Bronze Age mythology. "

I don't buy that most politicians in the religious right do the things they do because of their religion. Which is not to say that religion can't be the cause of such poorly-thought out actions. I just think that politicians, by and large, are amoral mercenaries who adapt their positions to the political reality of their constituencies.

That brings us to the pandering, which may be the reason behind Republicans taking the bait. If so, it was an uncharacteristically stupid tactical move. I'm flabbergasted by it. The Republican response had basically no support from women, approval from a minority of Catholics, and was generally a piece of cake for Obama to parry and turn against them. Why take this route, especially in an election that's focused overwhelmingly on the economy rather than social issues? Stupid as you make think religion and religious people, disco, they're more apt to vote with their wallets than with their Bibles.

To top it all off, they had a safe, topical social issue that appeals to their base way better than who pays for the pill. Washington just allowed gay marriage. Maryland's about to. Here you've got an issue where Rick Moonbat Santorum and Mitt "Look how conservative I am!" Romney can go to the conservative base and say, "See what's happening! We're losing the fight against gay marriage, it's encroaching on us everywhere! You need me to stop it!" Yet I've heard little enough about that from the Republicans, but they all had bullshit to spout regarding contraceptives.

My suspicion is that the whole thing was mostly a media creation. It's an economics election, but economics bore people.

---

And allow me to correct you. 40% of Americans apparently get their science lessons from bronze age mythology, but a good deal more get their moral teachings there.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 3:27 PM. Reason : unless not understanding evolution is now immoral]

2/24/2012 3:26:31 PM

^we should hope that they don't get their moral teachings from there. And if they do, they cherry pick the good parts because that thing contains far more vitriol, violence and bigotry than could be considered good morality

2/24/2012 3:58:22 PM