So the FBI and local police (exactly who is difficult to pin down) arrested show up at a guy's house, handcuffed him, and drove away with him. Apparently their reasoning was that he posted stuff that sounded like every other Ron Paul supporter on Earth, which made him sound dangerous.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/20/outcry-after-military-veteran-detained-for-anti-government-facebook-posts/

Here is the "what is this, I don't even..." part:

Quote :

"Raub's supporters characterized the detention as an arrest, complaining he was handcuffed and whisked away in a police cruiser without being served a warrant or read his rights. But authorities say it wasn't an arrest because Raub doesn't face criminal charges. Col. Thierry Dupuis, the county police chief, said Raub was taken into custody upon the recommendation of mental health crisis intervention workers. He said the action was taken under the state's emergency custody statute, which allows a magistrate to order the civil detention and psychiatric evaluation of a person who is considered potentially dangerous. He said Raub was handcuffed because he resisted officers' attempts to take him into custody."

I can be detained by authorities without being arrested?

It's apparently more complicated since some argue that they Feds didn't even have the right Facebook account. Anonymous argues the government probably created Facebook profiles for the purpose of arresting him, which is quite a... spectacular claim.

It's also contested that they
- didn't read him his Miranda rights
- they only charged him with resisting arrest, which isn't supported by the video shot

Shooting video of the arrest sounds like the exact thing I would expect the mother of a Ron Paul supporter to do.

8/21/2012 9:25:48 AM

My reading is that this guy wasn't arrested, but was involuntarily committed to a mental health facility. Most states allow someone to be involuntarily committed because they may be a "danger to themselves or others." All of the state laws are different on how they go about doing it or how much evidence is needed to commit someone, but I know in NC two mental health specalist review your case/interview you before you are committed and then I think you can appeal to a judge to be let out, In other states they can only keep you a few days before you have to consent to being there ie. there are some safeguards in place to keep people from being locked away for no reason.

So this situation is not technically an arrest, so no miranda rights are needed. And it should never be treated as an arrest either, or else we risk criminalizing mental health issues which is a different topic entirely.

my understanding is that cops don't have to be arresting you with something to put you in hand cuffs. If they are dealing with you (questioning, detaining, whatever) and feel like you are a danger to them, they can put you in cuffs. Not necessarily agreeing with this but thats what I think happened in this instance.

Now in this instance is the system being abused? Possibly. It should take more than some facebook posts to commit someone, its especially suspicious because his mom obviously doesn't support the commitment. At the same time I don't see any special motivation for the police to commit this guy when there are literally tens of thousands of people making the types of comments he made. Although I'm unfamiliar with Va law, I would guess that some type of safeguards should take over soon so that he can be released.

8/21/2012 12:36:52 PM

Quote :

"Most states allow someone to be involuntarily committed because they may be a "danger to themselves or others." All of the state laws are different on how they go about doing it or how much evidence is needed to commit someone, but I know in NC two mental health specalist review your case/interview you before you are committed and then I think you can appeal to a judge to be let out"

I was reading that on DailyKos. But what does it mean that the judge granted their request to hold him for a month? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Quote :

"So this situation is not technically an arrest, so no miranda rights are needed. "

Wouldn't he have to consent to it though? Or at least wouldn't other people who know him have to consent to it? And if he didn't consent to it, wouldn't they then have to arrest him? Maybe I don't understand. They took him forcefully without a court's permission. I could believe what you say, but it just doesn't fit that. Under who's authority did they commit him? A single anonymous Facebook friend who called the police after reading his posts? I don't think the police want this called a kidnapping. They want to call it an "escort". Ok, then the people who they were escorting him for kidnapped him. There is no happy alternative to calling it an arrest.

Quote :

"At the same time I don't see any special motivation for the police to commit this guy when there are literally tens of thousands of people making the types of comments he made."

I could believe that someone in the police force screwed up. But why would they commit him for a month? He was a writer and there are like 5 articles out there, all of which seem... like they would fit in TSB perfectly. It's vanilla succession stuff.

This isn't so much about him, but about the authorities doing their absolute damnedest to stir up a hornet's nest. What in the hell could they possibly have been thinking? "Hey, there seems to be a large online community afraid that the government is coming to get them". "huh, I know how we should deal with this, let's go kidnap one of them".



[Edited on August 21, 2012 at 1:43 PM. Reason : ]

8/21/2012 1:42:51 PM

First, let me say that I'm shooting from the hip a little here, the only experience I have has been through an old friend's experiences over this past year (committed and released in a few states). I don't really know the inner workings of mental health laws throughout the country.

just trying to show that this might not be as sinister as it seems on the surface. Also I'm not sure I 100% support involuntary commitments (as I can see them being both helpful and harmful and possibly abused by the state or family member)

Quote :

"But what does it mean that the judge granted their request to hold him for a month? That doesn't make any sense to me. "

Again I don't know Va's laws, but I do think the state can involuntarily commit people if they are deemed a danger. In the case of my friend, he was committed after a random bystander called the police on him based off his strange behaviour. The police approached him and deemed him to be mentally unstable, dropped him off at a mental hospital where they evaluated him for a day or two and then submitted the evidence to a judge who decided if the person should be committed or not. In most cases laws still only allow a person to be committed for a certain time period, I'm guessing in Va its for only a month.

Quote :

"Wouldn't he have to consent to it though? Or at least wouldn't other people who know him have to consent to it? And if he didn't consent to it, wouldn't they then have to arrest him? Maybe I don't understand. They took him forcefully without a court's permission. I could believe what you say, but it just doesn't fit that. Under who's authority did they commit him? A single anonymous Facebook friend who called the police after reading his posts? "

Admittedly this is the most sketch part about the situation to me, obviously a mentally ill person doesn't need to consent for them to be involuntarily committed. I still find it strange that the cops pulled up to his door to get him. But the reality is we don't have any information on who might have committed him and I'm guessing there may be privacy laws on the police releasing that kind of info. If an adult is willing to take him (his mom) then I don't see why they wouldn't release him into her custody though (unless she is somehow deemed unfit).

Quote :

"This isn't so much about him, but about the authorities doing their absolute damnedest to stir up a hornet's nest. What in the hell could they possibly have been thinking? "Hey, there seems to be a large online community afraid that the government is coming to get them". "huh, I know how we should deal with this, let's go kidnap one of them". "

I mean, they could be thinking, this guy is mentally ill and needs help

8/21/2012 2:56:30 PM

story update

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/attorney-of-former-marine-detained-for-facebook-posts-to-beck-psychiatrist-threatened-to-brainwash-my-client-with-meds/

gems:

Quote :

"Whitehead said that veterans have since been contacting him from across the country claiming they too were victims of wrongful detention in psychiatric institutes like Raub. Apparently, there are civil commitment laws in other states as well, he said. “It happens. There’s about 20,000 civil commitments alone in Virginia each year,” he added."

I want to try to see the other side where VA is really interested in the well being of us all, but...

Quote :

"Further, in a surprising twist, Whitehead revealed a startling allegation that his client made regarding an incident that occurred before his release. Raub complained to his attorney that one of the psychiatrists that he was seeing threatened to “brainwash” him and force him to take medication."

...what?

oh woah woah woah

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/08/24/vets-nationwide-people-disappearing-174701/

Quote :

"Whitehead tells Beck that he is getting calls from military veterans all over the country subjected to the same Nazi style psychiatric detention for their political views. More alarming, is when Beck asked if people of left-wing ideology – specifically members of Occupy Wall Street – are being detained Whitehead responded saying he can’t say for sure because people all over the country are just disappearing."

I swear to god, I'm a moderate TSB poster! This is stuff I expect from our crazies.

[Edited on August 27, 2012 at 9:45 AM. Reason : ]

8/27/2012 9:28:34 AM

8/27/2012 10:26:01 AM