At what temperature do you keep your water heater? I have been trying to find the perfect medium between solid temperature and energy savings. 140 is where I want it, but I feel like it runs all the time if I set it there. What say you, TWW?

9/24/2012 2:27:00 PM

i have ours set for 120°F, i think...when i take a shower, i turn the hot all the way up and don't even bother with the cold...it's too hot for my wife, so she runs cooler water

any higher than that is a waste of energy, IMO...my dishwasher has a small flash heater built into it (as most do, i believe) and we only wash our clothes in cold water, anyway, so why does it need to be any hotter?

9/24/2012 2:34:56 PM

My dishwasher has a heater in it so that's not an issue. The showers are the issue. I tried 120 and it isn't hot enough. I could probably deal with it, but the GF wants it hotter. We also hand wash our pots/pans/knives, and 120 just doesn't cut it for soaking them in the sink.

9/24/2012 2:51:00 PM

~120

9/24/2012 2:52:23 PM

I have a gas water heater and it just has a dial with an arrow pointing to hotter.

9/24/2012 2:56:52 PM

Are there not timer devices that you can install on your thermostat that operate the same way as timer HVAC thermostats?

9/24/2012 3:03:46 PM

Mine is thermometer checked. Don't want no neighbors kids getting burned and costing me a lawsuit, son.

9/24/2012 3:04:24 PM

Quote :

"Are there not timer devices that you can install on your thermostat that operate the same way as timer HVAC thermostats?"

Do you mean that it would turn it on only at peak times and keep it off the rest of the time? I don't think that would make much sense for a water heater. I think it would use less electricity to keep water hot versus heating it up from cold, but I might be wrong.

9/24/2012 3:12:39 PM

^the water heater in my house growing up had one. I'm pretty sure it's more economical, since you're not using water for most of the day, thus it's not keeping water hot when it's not being used. I could be wrong, though (advances in heaters/insulation/etc.) But even those changes would make it seem even more economical to have it on a timer.

a quick google search suggests a timer is not worth it. FWIW. (saving a few dollars per year for a $40 timer)

[Edited on September 24, 2012 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

9/24/2012 3:25:16 PM

Quote :

"We also hand wash our pots/pans/knives, and 120 just doesn't cut it for soaking them in the sink."

i handwash our SS pots/pans and henckels knives, so i'm with you there...but i have virtually no problem with soaking at that temperature...everything comes off without much scrubbing

fwiw, i have a water softener that, while unnecessary because raleigh's city water isn't really hard, makes a noticeable improvement in the effectiveness of soap in general (softer clothes, cleaner dishes from the dishwasher, less "tight" skin after showering)

if i run low or out of salt, i can tell just from showering or washing dishes

9/24/2012 3:32:40 PM

It is electric or gas? I swear, I have my turned up WAY hot because we have a shower that dumps 10 gallons/min of water. It was either buy a tankless, or keep the water hoter, using less of it to heat the combined stream. I can't even tell I've done it in our gas bills. Electric is going to be a lot different, however.

9/24/2012 3:46:25 PM

i keep it as hot as it will go.

(for the same reason as ^)

[Edited on September 24, 2012 at 4:13 PM. Reason : ]

9/24/2012 4:13:07 PM

when my gf started living with me i had to turn my gas heater up a tick or two to deal with the extra usage.

i also have noticed next to no change in my bill (maybe 1-2 bucks a month...MAYBE).

[Edited on September 24, 2012 at 4:23 PM. Reason : eh]

9/24/2012 4:23:03 PM

120

9/24/2012 4:56:08 PM

160 for legionnaires and long hot showers...

Seriously though any modern water heater should be insulated well enough that you only heat the water you use.
Use less hotter water and its fine... Honestly it should be do close you can't tell.

I had a condo with a hot water heating coil and the higher temp at the water heater made the power bill go down due to less fan energy.

9/24/2012 5:05:36 PM

Quote :

"It is electric or gas? I swear, I have my turned up WAY hot because we have a shower that dumps 10 gallons/min of water. It was either buy a tankless, or keep the water hoter, using less of it to heat the combined stream. I can't even tell I've done it in our gas bills. Electric is going to be a lot different, however."

Sorry, I probably should have given more details. It's electric, less than a year old, not sure of the capacity because I am too lazy to go under the house and look. And I have the same issue as above, our showers dump water.

9/24/2012 7:10:14 PM

Quote :

"It's electric"

boogie woogie woogie

9/24/2012 9:16:27 PM

I have to tell my guest to not turn on the hot water without turning on the cold.

9/24/2012 9:45:21 PM

OLDIFICATION OF TWW

9/24/2012 10:46:28 PM

i spent $5 on a new showerhead that only does 1gpm (i think...it MIGHT be 1.5gpm, but i know it's less than our kitchen or bathroom faucets)...it was on sale, but the regular price is only $10

it's by far one of the best showerheads i've owned

9/25/2012 9:57:21 AM

I have never understood the showerheads that just dump tons of water. Seems like a total waste of water and energy to me /shrug.

9/25/2012 10:00:37 AM

^ ditto...i don't understand what advantages they offer, either...the old one was 2.5gpm and this one has the same spray diameter (ie. it covers just as much area), but it's just not as hard (though it's not weak, either)

oh, and our hot water heater is the standard 50-gallon model and we've never once run out of hot water (and do frequently take one shower after another or one in each bathroom)

[Edited on September 25, 2012 at 10:22 AM. Reason : .]

9/25/2012 10:20:31 AM

I have never had any luck with shower heads. It seems like every one I buy is shittier than the last, regardless of price. Maybe I will give it a go one more time.

9/25/2012 10:31:54 AM

i just did a quick check of home depot and lowe's websites and i can't find the one i have...though when i bought it, it was on display at one of them

this is it, though: http://www.amazon.com/Niagara-Earth-Massage-1-25-Showerhead/dp/B003UQ6PS2/

$8, 1.25gpm, and 4.5/5 stars with 11 reviews...i think it's awesome (though it IS white...i think they have a chrome option, too)

9/25/2012 10:37:46 AM

I really only need to replace the one in our 2nd bathroom (which is the one I shower in), so I don't really care if it's white or chrome. My GF is in love with her shower head (Master Bath), so I couldn't change that one out even if I wanted to. lol

[Edited on September 25, 2012 at 11:00 AM. Reason : n]

9/25/2012 11:00:06 AM

i wasn't sure if it was worth creating another thread over this, so i'll just use this one

so...hot water seems to be out and given that the hot water heater we have is 12-13 years old, i suspect it's shot

admittedly, i haven't "checked" it, but i'm not sure what it could be as the "hot" water is barely warmer than the cold

anyway, i'm looking for an electric (we don't have gas) tankless heater...suggestions on size/throughput? i've found several calculators online that, if i follow their formula, suggest i need something like 9gpm, but i can't figure out WHY

our showerheads are 1.2gpm, our bathroom faucets are 2gpm, and our kitchen faucet is 2.5gpm

while i'm sure you can tally up everything and say you need that, it's silly as no one is going to be using both showers, all 3 bathroom faucets, and the kitchen faucet at full heat at the same time

so i'm looking at something that's around the 5gpm range...anyone have experience with one around that size? is it enough for you?

10/17/2012 7:13:44 AM

are your washer and your dishwasher going to be run off of this too?

Obviously you can control what items are being used at the same time in your own house, but you just have to think of all the users.

10/17/2012 8:10:54 AM

yeah, i had forgotten about the dishwasher...but we don't use hot water with our clothes washer very frequently, just when doing a "sanitize" load after washing camping/yardwork clothes and/or dog beds/towels from their baths

i did, on a whim, reset the breaker (even though it wasn't thrown) and 30 minutes later, hot water is back...i also went under the house and found a little box next to the hot water heater and i can't figure out what it does

it LOOKS like a fuse/breaker, but it specifically says on the outside that it's NOT a "fuse" (though i suppose it could still be the breaker)...it sits between the main and the heater itself...in any case, i didn't do anything to it

we have friends coming into town this weekend who are staying with us, so i'd really appreciate it if the heater will work through the weekend

after that, i'll look at tankless again...my budget is around $1k all said and done and while the unit(s) aren't that expensive, really, buying wire, new pipe, and breakers will easily add $200

i'm thinking about doing two smaller units because of the way the house is set up (showers on opposite ends of the house with kitchen/dishwasher/clothes washer in between)

10/17/2012 8:53:45 AM

that little box is probably a disconnect. If you pull out on the little handle inside it will break the power to the water heater as if the wires were not connected, but it wont break it in case of a current overload.

10/17/2012 9:53:03 AM

Quote :

"that little box is probably a disconnect. If you pull out on the little handle inside it will break the power to the water heater as if the wires were not connected, but it wont break it in case of a current overload."

from what you describe, that sounds exactly like what's there...it appeared to have a little handle, but i couldn't tell if it was supposed to be flipped or pulled out (and didn't have much desire to touch it, anyway)

why would it have one if it's got a breaker, too? just doubly safe in cases where you have to work on or replace the heater?

10/17/2012 10:01:51 AM

I think so, I once got into one where i found that only one side of the circuit was getting broken by the circuit breaker. I felt the voltage but thankfully was standing up on the soles of my boots, if i had been under a house sitting in wet mud from the failed water heater it would have been pretty bad. If that one had a disconnect then i would have been doubly sure it was off.

10/17/2012 10:06:22 AM

A little black plastic thing coming straight out of the front? Like:


Its a disconnect, and its probably not your problem.

10/17/2012 10:07:05 AM

^^ ah, good point...dealing with water and electricity at the same time is scary

^ similar, yes...and i don't think it's the problem, either...it's curious that resetting the breaker (even though it didn't appear tripped) SEEMS to have brought back my hot water (there wasn't any, then i reset, and 30 minutes later i have hot water)...but i'm not complaining

the heater's old; it's going to die someday relatively soon, so i'll still look into tankless...i'm just hoping to make it past monday morning

this one looks promising, though i was considering something in the mid-30s kw: http://www.amazon.com/Ecosmart-ECO-27-Modulating-Technology/dp/B002635ODW/

[Edited on October 17, 2012 at 10:14 AM. Reason : link]

10/17/2012 10:10:56 AM

you may have an element that's going out, there are some tests you can look up to determine if they are going out if you have a multimeter.

http://waterheatertimer.org/How-to-test-water-heater-element.html

By no means should you do this stuff if you aren't comfortable with the electricity.

10/17/2012 10:18:22 AM

Quote :

"I have never understood the showerheads that just dump tons of water. Seems like a total waste of water and energy to me /shrug."

Thats because you likely don't have a foot long waterfall showerhead that shoots out a blade of water like its coming off a cliff, or a 12 inch wide flush ceiling mounted rainhead that makes you feel like you're in a torrential downpour

If you have regular shower heads, you're right, much more than 2.5 GPM is just extra pressure. But when you expand the shower head size, flow makes a big difference.

Picture below is before everything was finished. The thing on the top right is the waterfall fixture.



[Edited on October 17, 2012 at 1:19 PM. Reason : .]

10/17/2012 1:18:14 PM

please to stop using "hot water heater"... if its hot it doesn't need to be heated...

water heater...

also ^ added pressure?

Pretty sure when you increase flow... flow increases...

right now we live in an apartment so since we can't make a steam shower...

we use this

http://www.lowes.com/pd_89235-72981-58065-RB_4294857109__?productId=3374028&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

is it a huge waste of water.... yep... is it awesome to shower with... yep...

10/17/2012 1:40:31 PM

^^Well, I understand the concepts of the flow and pressure relating to the different heads as part of my job is working with fluid mechanics

I just meant I don't understand the purpose in a residential setting. We had something almost identical to that in a hotel in costa rica and while it was kind of cool for vacation I couldn't see using that much water and energy at home.

Don't get me wrong, it definitely looks really nice and will impress when selling the home so I'm not trying to downplay it. I just don't think I could justify putting one in myself whenever/if we redid our bathroom.

As long as you enjoy it though, I can't say it was a bad decision.

[Edited on October 17, 2012 at 1:49 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on October 17, 2012 at 1:49 PM. Reason : ]

10/17/2012 1:43:53 PM

^^ Yeah, I guess you are right. I think what I was trying to say is that the extra 'flow' across the same size openings isn't going to necessarily improve your experience much in a fixture that was designed for low flow. The pressure in the line doesnt change.

^ Well, all I can tell you is that I am really dissapointed when I get into other shows now. Its obviously a matter of taste. I can't tell much or any difference in the water or gas bill.

[Edited on October 17, 2012 at 1:50 PM. Reason : .]

10/17/2012 1:49:15 PM

ohh dude i totally don't need it... the only thing i like is when you take the hand thing down you don't freeze your ass off due to the lack of water hitting you.

and i was giving the other guy shit about the pressure.
i know you're a PE in the hvac world or something along those lines.

10/17/2012 1:51:04 PM

^ haha yeah I meant to respond to CarZin. You beat me to the punch so my post wasn't responding to the right person.

And don't worry I'm certainly not saying it's stupid or anything, I was just saying for some reason the concept of the waterfall shower setups is lost on me. If you're enjoying whatever setup you put in on a regular basis then it was definitely worth it to you though. As long as I have good enough pressure I'm good to go. Nothing worse than low-pressure showers.

[Edited on October 17, 2012 at 1:54 PM. Reason : ]

10/17/2012 1:53:18 PM

My water pressure, no joke, is 90 PSI. At least according to the guage I purchased. Its insane.

10/17/2012 1:58:05 PM

^^ yeah... i went to one place and they had a high flow shower head with no building pressure and luke-warm water...

It felt creepy... like i imagine being peed on by a few people would.

10/17/2012 2:38:48 PM

10/18/2012 1:35:55 PM

get a solar thermal box on your roof. it's great.

10/20/2012 10:40:06 AM

Quote :

"don't get a solar thermal box on your roof. it's great expensive and not even remotely cost-effective."

10/20/2012 5:38:00 PM

Dat 190 percent 120 degrees F.

10/20/2012 11:59:28 PM

I set it at 120 in the summer, 140 in the winter. I have a gas tankless and will always use them in the future where gas is available.

10/21/2012 4:27:52 AM

hmmm...we had hot water until this morning and i flipped the breaker and no dice after 30 minutes...i then reseated the disconnect (thanks to bubster5041 for identifying that for me) and 30 minutes later, i have hot water again

the connectors on the disconnect don't look TOO bad, but they are a bit corroded and it might be enough to make the connection inconsistent (with a little wiggling, at least)...it doesn't fit in there too tightly

the first time i went down there and messed with it (just pushed on it, didn't actually pull it out), it started working...reseating it THIS time seems to have fixed it...i'm wondering if that's the issue

i'm sure i can replace it easily enough, or perhaps even just clean the connection...but i'm still gonna get a tankless

i'm concerned the 27kW unit won't be enough, so i'm also looking at this stiebel eltron 36kW unit for $686 (which is $200 more than the 27kW ecosmart i linked to earlier): http://www.amazon.com/Stiebel-Eltron-36-Electric-Tankless/dp/B001AHO8AK/

only problem is our house has standard 200A service and this sucker pulls 150A at peak...the ecosmart 27 pulls 112.5A

i don't ever anticipate maximum draw on either unit, really, but i suspect it's a bad idea to do the 36kW unit unless i have 400A service

[Edited on October 21, 2012 at 2:44 PM. Reason : .]

10/21/2012 2:40:54 PM

Quote :

"My water pressure, no joke, is 90 PSI. At least according to the guage I purchased. Its insane."

Be careful. Pressures that high can damage plumbing and lead to premature failure of valves and fixtures. I have had two water leaks under my house in the past two years where a 160 psi supply line was split. I got the pressure checked, and it was at 90 psi constantly, and spiking to 110 psi and higher overnight. I got a pressure reducing valve installed to knock it back to 60 psi, so hopefully that will stem the problems for a while. I can't tell any difference in the shower because I already had a low flow head which I ran at about half open. Water hose still has plenty of pressure. Takes a little longer for toilets and washing machine to fill up, but who cares about that? The kitchen sink doesn't knock dishes out of my hands anymore.

10/21/2012 3:03:12 PM

city services will come out and measure the pressure from your spigots if you ask. newer houses will have pressure reducer valves installed at the main shut off valve.

Carson, your shower is awesome. I'm planning on doing something similar.

10/26/2012 2:36:45 PM