Ok... would you rather have a large cube cam in block engine or a 25% smaller dohc dual variable valve timing engine


Basically...

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=13509

vs

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=12763

11/14/2012 12:10:33 PM

+1 DOHC VVT... boost later?

11/14/2012 12:31:08 PM

Both will get boost at some lol...


The 351 based engine will be a 408 @9.5/1 really.

my pros/cons are weird... i have to modify the engine bay to make the flipping heads fit on the dohc engine and i feel like it has more things to break on it... but i think it will hold boost better knock less and probably last longer mechanically... but the 351 based engine will fit in the stock engine bay, and have less electrical issues... maf sensors, cam position sensors, cam actuators, throttle position sensor/motor etc. to fail but the crank/rods/pistons may not last as long due to its in-ability to pull timing on a knock event or something.


[Edited on November 14, 2012 at 12:46 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2012 12:39:48 PM

This going in the Tbird?

11/14/2012 5:35:26 PM

67/68 mustang...


the t-bird is a dual quad car and is worth too much to fuck with in this manner.

ironically it has mechanical drums all around and drives like shit.

11/14/2012 5:45:23 PM

351 based. It will be so much easier to service. Put it at about 8.5 and really put the boost to it.

11/14/2012 6:11:53 PM

Yeah the lumpy idle of a big ole Windsor would be nice but the ability to hold boost of the mid motors is only exceeded by supras.

11/14/2012 7:39:20 PM

If time and money (especially money) are no concern, go with the DOHC.

The only reasons to go with traditional iron are:
1. Maintain some originality.
2. Money's an issue. Can't beat a big inch pushrod motor for cheap power.

I personally love the idea of a modern engine in an old car. Breathe some real usable life into it. While I do absolutely love a big inch pushrod engine, I think that carburetors are hunks of shit, and I especially can't stand having to constantly rejet Holleys.

Even a throttlebody injected pushrod engine is light years better.

The bonus with a pushrod carbed engine (with points) is that after the apocalypse, you'll have few problems keeping it running. Ditto that for third world countries. If neither of those situations apply, then fuck that shit.

11/14/2012 7:52:41 PM

It would be efi in the manner of a 90s 351 truck setup with aftermarket intake.

Just not all the cam stuff and drive by wire stuff.

The major downfall for the cammer is not fitting between the fenders means something like a heidt front end (revised mustang 2)


next to a 426 hemi

[Edited on November 14, 2012 at 8:12 PM. Reason : .]

11/14/2012 8:08:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csScrn44P04&feature=fvwrel

it fits with 429 fenders!!

11/18/2012 12:52:32 AM

maybe not.... only if you remove the upper a-arm and go strut style...

fuck.....

mastercylinder/brake booster combo looks like it'll be a bitch with the 5.0 too..


this sucks but i'm pretty much dead set on it now...

11/26/2012 2:02:36 PM

lol

11/26/2012 2:12:44 PM

I have a toy hauler with a ford triton v10. It gets <10mpg if I'm moving at any pace. Do I swap in the 5 or 6 cyl cummins from a sprinter, swap a ford turbo diesel v8, or sell it for a profit and buy a chevy diesel toy hauler? I'm shooting for 15mpg

[Edited on November 26, 2012 at 5:08 PM. Reason : 1999 e450 chassis]

11/26/2012 5:08:22 PM

ford's (2007) turbo diesel v8 would only get you to about 13 mpg in my experience

I'd prolly get a cummins

11/26/2012 5:26:50 PM

the 6.0 (03-06) got me 11-14 depending on what I was towing.

11/26/2012 6:22:26 PM

swap in a 4bta from a p30 step van and get 20+

11/26/2012 11:19:43 PM

E450 like econoline ?
1 you are driving a brick start drafting some bitches
2 How much are you hauling ? Could it be done with a sprinter?

I dunno but the flatbed 6.0 ford that gave me and my jeep a ride home from mebane got +2 mpg than my jeep with my jeep on the back of it. 19hwy on the jeep 21 for him but he had some power programmer looking thing avging his mpg the whole time so I wonder if it was tuned for it ??

11/27/2012 6:47:13 AM

^how was that mileage calculated?

tuner equipped vehicles usually get 17-22mpg depending on tire size/load/speed.

11/27/2012 7:22:45 AM

fuck if i know.... he re-set it for our trip and it was 21 when i got out.

11/27/2012 7:59:48 AM

gotcha, once people actually hand calculate based on tire rolling radius, etc. the numbers tend to drop.

11/27/2012 8:49:02 AM

fuck both choices.

big block.

/thread

11/27/2012 10:27:42 AM

e450 like this


I looked for a sprinter based toy hauler but I don't think one exists. I need to tow 3 sport bikes, several extra wheels, tires, tools, gear, and a dirt bike.

11/27/2012 11:03:27 AM

How did Nic's ghetto bullshit get brought up in here

[Edited on November 27, 2012 at 3:52 PM. Reason : .]

11/27/2012 3:47:53 PM

lol "ghetto bullshit" on a 50k toy hauler from a guy with a 20 year old nissan
obvious troll is obvious

11/27/2012 4:02:12 PM

Let's all compare the prices of our old man motorhomes!

11/27/2012 4:33:59 PM

but it's got a garage for my young man motorbikes

11/27/2012 5:11:26 PM

why not a 1/2 ton?

4 bikes X 400 lbs
several extra wheels and tires: 400 lbs
tools and gear: 200 lbs
trailer: 2000 lbs
------------------------
4200 lbs

11/27/2012 5:13:59 PM

sigh - until you've done this, trust me when I say having a single vehicle is the way to go, especially now that I'm in DC and have no room for the f250 diesel and 5th wheel that were my previous setup. a true toy hauler takes a fraction of the time to load, move, and park that a truck/trailer combo takes. It's also much more inviting for folks to ride with and help with the driving as you can sleep in a real bed when it's not your shift to drive.

after you've been riding for 3 days, the last thing you want to do is fuck with a trailer, only to get home at like 3am after 9873434289743 hours of driving and need to snake that motherfucker down an 11' wide driveway in the middle of downtown.

just as an example, I parallel parked the toy hauler in about 3min with a single pass with only the aid of my rearview camera, hopped out the cab and into my car and was still on time to my meeting (was parked illegally the night before and saw an open spot on the way to a meeting the next day). that's not gonna happen with a truck and a trailer.

[Edited on November 27, 2012 at 6:26 PM. Reason : also, my f250 is too big for every parking garage ive seen in dc, including the one for my building.]

11/27/2012 6:25:38 PM

You spent 50k on a gas motor home??!

Damn son... I would have hit a retired bus or something.

11/27/2012 9:34:51 PM

fuck no i didn't spend 50k. however, you'll be hard pressed to find a diesel toy hauler for less (than 50k)

11/27/2012 10:03:09 PM

This was a thread about 2 differing ford engines into a bad ass mustang. Not about piece of shit Rv's towing pile of shit kids toys and not you complaining about the downsides to a hobby that you knowingly chose to take part in.

Make your own thread.





[Edited on November 28, 2012 at 11:54 AM. Reason : .]

11/28/2012 11:48:30 AM

↑ thanks dawg....

i'd be cool having diesel swap intel in my thread if it ends up having Dr Pepper numbers

fucking money is tied up with my financial manager...

trying to get this one...

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/3372439518.html

shit's been frame offed already just doesn't have the engine/trans in it.

now... i'm going to completely mangle the engine bay restoration but still... can't hardly find a mustang that's not worth much more than its vin for 15k and i got this dude down to 17.

c'mon money man!!!
get back from vacation!!!!!

[Edited on November 28, 2012 at 1:22 PM. Reason : forgot to post link doh]

11/28/2012 1:21:42 PM

Oh that's nice! For the engine choices, what are your plans for the ride? All said and done I think you would be happier with the modern engine although it will of course be more of a headache to get right.

11/28/2012 3:02:34 PM

so i have to do a mustang II front end... probably heidt's

remove the shock towers... then i gotta rig up something to make the power brakes fit...

because there won't be any room on the fire wall.

then i have to modify the tranny tunnel to fit the big ass t-56 i want to use.
(gforce)

and then... i need to start thinking about wtf to do with the rear end... i really want to do a nice coilover setup but i sorta want it capable of running X275 radial drag classes which mandate stock suspension... so.... leaf's it is maybe.... cause i want it to handle too.


i'm also planning on tossing in a chromoly cage with an nhra 8.5sec cert

11/28/2012 3:33:40 PM

^what about that new IRS setup touted in the back-pages of hotrod mag?

11/28/2012 4:41:14 PM

600hp max and 8 grand with shitty brakes, wheel hops at drag strip and is kinda just show car bling bs IMHO

A full floater 9" with camber adjustments, 4 link or 3 link, watts link and big ass willwoods may be in the cards but no official drag racing that I could be competitive in with that setup ( puts me into full blown outlaw radial class which needs 2000 hp min to compete )

11/28/2012 5:22:59 PM

...in all reality, if you're out to build a car that's anywhere near a 'cruiser' i doubt it's going to fit into any class comfortably, except for bracket racing, just IMO

11/29/2012 7:55:17 AM

yeah... pipe dreams i know...

i guess what i should more look into is something fun for like hot rods drag week.


Should i go IRS? i mean someone could probably make the half shafts for it but the wheel hop etc worth it?

11/29/2012 9:52:31 AM

Quote :

"but no official drag racing that I could be competitive in with that setup ( puts me into full blown outlaw radial class which needs 2000 hp min to compete )"

Dr Pepper knows a thing or two about this issue


and no. fuck IRS. 9" all the way.

[Edited on November 29, 2012 at 9:53 AM. Reason : f]

11/29/2012 9:52:57 AM

^yeah.

And let it be known that I've only 'built' one vehicle in my life, so I'm not a know-it-all or what have you... I simply try to add insight if it appears that it's applicable for the conversation. I will gladly accept 'being put in my place' whever I am off-key.


triangulated 4-link with coilovers and a decent sway bar would be good

11/29/2012 10:00:51 AM

lol yeah i guess it is a back halfed chassis ehh?lol

so can leaf springs be made to handle worth a damn ?

i mean a trip to calvert racing can get it going straight pretty well... but track bar or watts link to locate it may help handling especially with a floated 9 with camber adjustability.

11/29/2012 10:08:25 AM

what is your purpose for this car?

are you gonna dd / autocross / drag race it?

11/29/2012 11:28:07 AM

lol i dunno i was going to get rid of the roo... but i'm probably going to have a hard time doing that now cause i just dropped it off for clutch/tranny fixes that will correct what pisses me off about it.

probably drive it when it's nice, take it to the strip a hand full of times a year and maybe hit up a track day or 2 at vir if i didn't ruin the handling with horse pressures and adapting the suspension to it.

[Edited on November 29, 2012 at 12:10 PM. Reason : .]

11/29/2012 12:08:38 PM

set it up for road racing / dd action.

315's all around

11/29/2012 2:15:59 PM

Lol we can't all be awesome...

So every one in agreement with 4 cam 302 over 1 cam 408?

Weisco is making a 351 stroker for the coyote too lol.

11/29/2012 3:52:38 PM

that is purdy tho...

11/29/2012 4:41:45 PM

yeah, it looks good, but wheel hop is a bitch.


And yes, 4-cam

[Edited on November 29, 2012 at 10:05 PM. Reason : -]

11/29/2012 10:05:22 PM

Sucks to change rotors too.

11/29/2012 10:14:41 PM

Yeah i'm still wondering if the cams are worth welding in a mustang 2 suspension, and trying to find some fancy trick to fit a brake booster in there. BUTTT

The single-point power to the engine wiring harness... makes my junk hard.

11/30/2012 11:11:24 AM

FUUUCKKKS....

i keep floundering one way or the other... and what it comes down to is how much i will drive the car vs how fast i want to go.

Because a track day kinda car really should have a small block ford in it... it's lighter with a lower center of gravity and allows usage of modified stock suspensions.

and mod motors don't quite sound this good.



The coyote is still light but needs to be converted to a mustang II style front end which isn't known for its handling prowess it needs a good bit of work to make the friggin master cylinder to fit then if i twin turbo it... its a whole other where the fuck do i put this puzzle.

[Edited on December 5, 2012 at 3:29 PM. Reason : .]

12/5/2012 3:28:41 PM