which would you buy? insurance is slightly more for the bimmer. checked my bank and i have 100% approved financing for either car. just need to pick one now:

'02 bmw m3 w/ 111k miles for $15,000 out the door
http://www.avaautosales.com/inventory/view/6427482?2002+BMW+M3%2A%2A+BLACK+EDITION%2A%2A+INGLEWOOD+CA


'03 honda s2000 w/ 61k miles for $15,500 out the door
http://www.bestpriceautoonline.com/2003_Honda_S2000_Northridge_CA_173002291.veh#


[Edited on February 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2013 7:43:02 PM

Drive them both... I would go bimmer but I prefer brute force over finesse ( which I know the m3 isn't really a brute force car but in this comparo it is)

2/26/2013 7:52:42 PM

having driven both before, i love driving them about as equally. the s2000 handles a little better and there is a pure joy in driving it that's hard to describe. the m3 has the torque that the s2000 lacks though (as you've mentioned).

2/26/2013 8:01:37 PM

They're both great cars, period. I owned a 2002 s2000 and currently own a 2000 BMW M Coupe (s52, not the s54 thats in the M3 youre looking at).

If I got to pick one car to go for a sunday drive on some nice windy roads, I'd honestly take the Honda - the rpms, the gearbox, the feel, etc. I just enjoyed it more when I was really driving it. With that being said, which car would I rather own as my only, or primary car, Id take the M Coupe (M3 in your case). Power is waaay more usable, there's more power, it's much nicer around town, there's a lot more space for people, you can put things in the car without having to use the trunk, it's not always fun to drive a convertible, etc. With that being said, the Honda got decent mileage and is supposed to be bullet proof.

TLDR version - I think the honda is a more unique, fun sunday drive...but Id rather own the M3 due to power, practicality, and refinement (and it's still a ton of fun). I dont think youll find a more well rounded sports car at that price than an e46 M3.

2/26/2013 8:23:34 PM

I'm just not a convertible fan.

And torque is very nice, you pretty much don't even think about it when you have it. But when you don't, you'll be winding the shit outta the engine to get somewhere.

get the M3

2/26/2013 9:18:02 PM

M3

2/26/2013 9:19:53 PM

M3

2/26/2013 9:43:51 PM

colemania, thanks for you input. did you mod either car, the s2000 in particular? as ray mentioned, torque is very underrated and i like torque. the m3 doesn't have a ton more, especially in terms of torque::weight, but i'm curious to know what it'd cost to put more into the s2000.

2/26/2013 10:45:43 PM

well I'm guessing you'd need a new $2000+ convertible top right off the bat

2/26/2013 10:46:48 PM

wow, the s2000 actually has a better torque ratio. 18 per lb compared to the m3's 13 per lb. guess the difference would be where it's delivered and the s2000 doesn't have it where it's needed.

2/26/2013 10:59:44 PM

^^^ Nope, my s2k was completely stock from a performance standpoint. It's a 2 litre pushing out 240 hp naturally aspirated, so unless you go silly and bolt something on, you're not going to see much power from intakes, exhausts, software, etc. The car is light, has an awesome gearbox when youre pushing it, and just has a real connected feel...but it has a real wound up, high rev feeling to it. It's plenty fun, but it only gets shit eating grin fun if you have curves (it will never jolt you back into your seat the way other cars can). Ripping shifts at 9k is where the fun is, not by powering through anything.

I've never actually drove an e46 M3 (just e36 M3, z3m coupe, and e46 330), but from similar cars, I can say it's going to be much easier to live with. You dont need to have the RPMs up all the time to get them moving, despite the torque/weight ratio listed here i thought the s2k was just made to run really high, and the BMW is such a more refined car when it comes to traffic / having a normal car ride with someone / interior pleasantries.

I think the M3 is the better overall package without much thought. The s2k is more unique to drive, Id rather track a s2k, but Id rather live with a M3 in the real world (ride quality, space, interior quality, stereo, everyday driving). Unless youre fixed on the s2k or will be having a two car set up, go for the M3 in my opinion. But of course, drive them both (find local ones at the very least), and dont let us make up your mind.

[Edited on February 26, 2013 at 11:05 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on February 26, 2013 at 11:11 PM. Reason : oh, i hear gears are actually useful on the s2k, but you might go nuts after hway driving all day]

2/26/2013 11:01:27 PM

I think if I bought the S2k vs the M3, I'd be trying to mod it to make it faster where as the M3, I'd just drive it. plus it has a back seat, which works out more times than not.

2/26/2013 11:01:48 PM

save your money until you get promoted 2-3 more times

2/27/2013 12:15:25 AM

2003/2004 mustang cobra IRS and a fuck ton more pwr than these two lol.

/half hearted troll but what I personally would really do since I'd never let myself own a zo6 due to a stupid sense of brand loyalty.

2/27/2013 6:48:40 AM

If you spend 15k on an ap1 s2k I have a beach house in TN for you

2/27/2013 8:07:56 AM

lol, fly to FL and I'll sell you my M3 to you for much cheaper than that.

2/27/2013 9:37:04 AM

Quote :

"well I'm guessing you'd need a new $2000+ convertible top right off the bat"

Convertible top is nowhere near that. I got a nice canvas replacement top with a glass window upgrade (my S2000 was an MY2000 with a plastic window originally) for $600 and had it installed for $300.


To Superchevy: I have owned both an 1997 E36 M3 and a 2000 AP1 S2000, and in fact just sold the S2000 to a close buddy this past weekend so I owned both for about 8 months. I have extensively autocrossed/aggressively driven both cars. Both are great cars, but if you're even thinking about tracking the car I would go with the M3 due to the painful complexity of safety with tracking a convertible. My M3 has been a much nicer car to live with, way more room to carry stuff around and to the track, much more roomy for my 6'2" height, etc. And with a sunroof, I really don't miss the convertible top as much as I thought I would. Although I do have to say, considering that the M3's original price was like $10k more than the S2000's (off the dealer lot) the interior has held up WAY better on the S2000. The interior on E36 BMW's is pretty freakin crappy, not sure about E46's.

As Quinn mentioned, I would not buy an AP1 S2000 for that price. Mileage isn't really a problem on the S2000 (it's a Honda yay) and if you're intending to drive it hard it would be better to get a cheaper one that might not be as good cosmetically anyways.

Also, on the E46 M3, make sure you read up on the rear subframe issues and make sure they're not a problem or potential problem with this car. http://www.bimmerforums.com is your friend

2/27/2013 10:24:27 AM

Quote :

"If you spend 15k on an ap1 s2k I have a beach house in TN for you"

M3 assuming it doesn't have subframe issues and is up to date on all inspections. Much faster, more practical, and easier to live with.

Engine mods on an S2000 aside from forced induction are a waste of money.

2/27/2013 10:36:16 AM

M3

2/27/2013 3:25:02 PM

i appreciate everyone's response. i'll try to address more things when i have some time, but for now... as for pricing: looking around several internet searches, dealership websites, craigslist, for sale sections of forums, etc. before windling down my choices to both of these cars are priced very fairly when comparing conditions and options. granted, i'm only searched areas in close promixity to california. and maintenance isn't a huuuge issue, but it is a concern nonetheless. i do only plan on putting on only 7,500 miles annually, in the short term at least. as for tracking... fuck yeah! i'm about 15 minutes from laguna seca and 2.5 hours from infineon raceway, not to mention the countless mountain roads and hwy 1 of california.

oh and i got the price of the s2000 dropped to $15,193 total now.

[Edited on February 27, 2013 at 3:59 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2013 3:57:24 PM

I bought my '03 S2000 with less miles for less money. Three years ago.

Quick local CL check and I found three AP1's under 10K. All of those have more miles, but still 15K is too much for that car.

I kept mine for 14-15 months, then sold it for 12.5K I think. Loved that car, even though I have never been a convertible fan. There is a joy to driving an S2000 that is very hard to describe.

I have never owned a BMW for comparison.

2/27/2013 5:38:00 PM

they're probably cheaper on the east coast, but not really out here in california. why pay the ~$1-2k to ship for an older car with more miles? know what i mean? there isn't a big difference between the '99-'01 and '02-'03 ap1s, but i'd rather get the latter.

and you sold your '03 a year ago for only about $2000 less in a different market. $15,000 now for one with significantly less than half the avg milage in one of the colors i want (it matters to me) and in an area where convertibles are in high demand is not a bad deal for me.

i really, really appreciate everyone's comments, advice, and insights. however, i'm really not interested in going back and forth on justifying costs or suggestions for other vehicles. i would like to continue to read your experiences, insights, and whatnot regarding owning/driving these vehicles though. i am more than likely going to buy the s2000 tomorrow (the inexplicable joy of driving it that i agree with everyone about, maintenance costs, fact that it is no longer in production). is there anything i should check, such as mechanically, before i pull the trigger?

[Edited on February 27, 2013 at 9:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/27/2013 9:24:32 PM

^ Obviously, check the top - both on the inside and where things rub on the inside. The bolsters are notoriously bad for wearing out on the drivers side, make sure theyre reasonable. Ummmm, check out s2ki.com, the forums have a pretty nice pre-sale checklist or two that will really help you out. Also, its the best s2k resource on the web and is still pretty active. Also, to avoid headaches on the site, the 'secret compartment' is that the top of the center stack between the two seats lifts up (when I opened it after buying, mine had cobwebs in it...).

Dont worry about the M3 fans - the s2k is a really fun car that has low operating costs (maintenance, gas....not tires).

2/27/2013 9:37:00 PM

thanks, i have heard about the "secret compartment" before and now i know. interestingly i "found" it easily earlier this week while test driving an '01 s2000. in that experience, the "secret" was the location of the fuel door release. the salesman and i poured over the car for a few minutes and i happened to notice it while he was googling.

2/27/2013 9:43:37 PM

^Yeah, not sure why they hid that. I had a buddy who worked at a parts store call me to ask for a customer who couldn't find his.

2/27/2013 9:57:49 PM

haha! honda could've at least added a lil color to it, especially since it's so small. i do appreciate the stereo being hidden though.

2/27/2013 10:02:46 PM

Sumfoo1 I haven't seen many terminators going for 15k recently. You know something I don't.. But you win the thread with your answer.

2/27/2013 10:20:19 PM

15.5? fucks sake, I paid 12.5 for an '03 with 40k on the dash 3 years ago.

I mean, I guess MAYBE location will make that much of a difference - guess I'll take a road trip when I sell it.

[Edited on February 28, 2013 at 12:02 AM. Reason : ]

2/28/2013 12:01:00 AM

Hell, my first one was 3 years old when I bought it, with 37k miles...and a Comptech aftercooled supercharger, Comptech exhaust, nice component speakers, amps and JL audio sub in the trunk, and $4000+ of Fikse wheels...

...and I paid $20k.




the 2nd one was about 10 years old with 90-100k miles or so, and I paid $7700.

2/28/2013 9:34:49 AM

You guys need to chill with the S2000 pricing. You're out of the loop and don't realize a few things.

1) Prices are higher in California b/c it's CA and a convertible
2) S2000 resale has spiked in the last 1-2 years ever since they went out of production. I just traded in my S2000 last month for only 3,000 less than what I bought it for in 2008. And now its listed for sale for $2,000 MORE than what I bought it for. I mean sure maybe you can find some for cheaper but it won't be easy and they have probably been beat on. Well maintained and good condition unmodified S2000s are a commodity.

I would get the S2000, especially since you live in CA where convertible weather is more or less all the time. The BMW is more practical, but you could always wait to own something like that later in life when you NEED a rear seat and more space. The S2000 is more reliable and will have considerably lower running costs.

However if you plan on tracking it you will need an aftermarket roll bar installed for most tracks I would think.

2/28/2013 10:23:17 AM

To be honest I agree with everything said above

2/28/2013 10:39:24 AM

I, too, agree with TKE Teg.
Sold my S2k at a low point in the market, but they have definitely gone up in value to the point that most people who bought 3-4 years ago are going to do well if they sell now.

2/28/2013 11:57:22 AM

It's not worth 15.5 no matter how you look at it in my opinion. My car must be worth damn near what I bought it for 6 years ago???????

2/28/2013 7:15:35 PM

Shit, now I want to sell my s2000 - no one needs to know I rebuilt it in a parking lot

2/28/2013 7:18:36 PM

that M3 is horrendously overpriced. to put things in perspective. i sold my '01 almost 3 years ago with 125k miles for $15k flat. you need to negotiate harder.

both great cars, depending what you want out of it.

2/28/2013 7:55:36 PM

^^^last time I checked a car is worth what people will pay for it.

And on a funny related note I never took down my S2000's Craigslist ad, where it is advertised for $22k. I get around one hit a week for it ( I really should remove it lol).

2/28/2013 11:24:14 PM

All correct on the s2k pricing - a clean s2k costs more now than it did back in 2011.

When my friend drove my s2k into a wall this past summer, I got 17.8k from the insurance company (2002 s2k with 32k miles). Sigh.

3/1/2013 12:20:28 AM

flew down to la last night and bought the s2000 for $15,198. it was mint! turned a 6 hr drive home into 4.75 hrs, getting to know my new love. pics to come.

3/1/2013 12:59:19 PM

don't lift once it starts to snap on you

keep it pinned and drive out of it

3/1/2013 1:07:39 PM

^^^ I need to wreck my shit

3/1/2013 6:43:05 PM

^ Yeah, Geico did it based on recent, local sales. My pay out was based on a total of 4 cars sold according to the guy...was very generous.

3/1/2013 6:45:22 PM

I would have let my 05 with hardtop and every option drive away for a few grand more than you bought that one for.......but my CRX doesnt run yet and I just cut half the floor out....

3/3/2013 3:11:11 PM

Every option?

3/3/2013 4:17:58 PM

Down to 550$ headrest speakers .... PO checked every single box >40k sticker in glove bix

3/3/2013 5:24:28 PM

I didn't even know S2000s had options...I thought they were all the same.

I'm not up on AP2s, though.

3/3/2013 5:56:05 PM

weren't any from the factory - you can bet your ass the dealers threw a bunch of overpriced bullshit at them, though (at least the ap1's)

[Edited on March 3, 2013 at 7:43 PM. Reason : ]

3/3/2013 7:43:39 PM

Yeah there were quite a few options available.

http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2009/honda/s2000/packages_options.html

3/3/2013 9:30:15 PM

40

K

HONDAs

3/3/2013 10:17:31 PM

H8R yeah, i know. i racked up about 200 miles on carmel valley rd this weekend, and slid the tail out a couple of times on the wider corners. once, it wasn't intentional.

3/3/2013 11:09:41 PM

quickk update: as to be expected, i've been busy driving (1,200+ miles this past week). ran my rear tires bald already. great opportunity to get a pair of bfgoodrich sport comp2 245/50/16 yesterday. broke them in already, and spent this morning testing them out on the incomparable carmel valley rd. i've had the hardest time breaking them loose. amazing grip!

3/9/2013 4:45:44 PM