4/19/2013 9:14:31 AM

Cue goldbugs pretending they didn't spend the last few years attributing the rise in gold to Ben "The Printing Press" Bernanke going all-out Weimar on us.

4/19/2013 9:15:57 AM

what does the Fed have to do with this?

4/19/2013 9:21:39 AM

Everything?

4/19/2013 10:03:08 AM

lol.

this thread will go places.

4/19/2013 10:04:27 AM

The fed destroying money? Just what they want you to think. You guys aren't looking deep enough! The fed is creating gold!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher%27s_stone

4/19/2013 10:24:57 AM

Educational thread. I always thought the Philosopher's Stone was something made up by JK Rowling.

4/19/2013 10:42:52 AM

I expected a thread about the retrenchment of quantitative easing.

4/19/2013 10:44:50 AM

Weak Monkeys fall out of trees when you shake them.


It leaves more room in the tree for strong monkeys.

I bought more gold. I will buy more later.

4/19/2013 10:45:51 AM

Good on you face. Pretty obvious tactic to psychologically shake the weak hands out prior to the revaluation.

I had to cover margin on some shares & I picked up some silver to boot.

4/19/2013 10:48:42 AM

Yeah, the amount of money out there is def increasing.



It is definitely still increasing.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/

I don't understand. But not in a "It's complicated" sort of way, more of in a "OP doesn't know what the hell he's talking about" kind of way.

4/19/2013 10:51:40 AM

So in this analogy, people with a poor understanding of macroeconomics, consumed by unfounded fears of hyperinflation, are the strong monkeys?

4/19/2013 10:51:47 AM

The market price is what it is. The price is higher in part to people holding physical gold (long-term hedgers), but most of the fluctuation is due to people trading paper claims to gold.

The Austrian view holds that the long-term outlook for gold is much, much higher in terms of U.S. dollars. Yes, we all understand the mainstream view. The debt can be sustained forever, the deficit can keep going up, no problem, just make sure the Fed can keep goosing the economy and all will be fine. I don't buy it - I don't think it can be sustained.

[Edited on April 19, 2013 at 11:10 AM. Reason : ]

4/19/2013 11:10:31 AM

Quote :

"The market price is what it is."

It is what it is when it's down, but when it's up it's "I told you so"

Quote :

"we all understand the mainstream view. The debt can be sustained forever, the deficit can keep going up, no problem, just make sure the Fed can keep goosing the economy and all will be fine."

Nice strawman. I think the view is that it can sustainably go up given a complex set of things at work, and that there is a level where it gets out of control. It's a lot tougher to understand than the simplistic "personal finance" views people generally talk about.

Quote :

"Weak Monkeys fall out of trees when you shake them. It leaves more room in the tree for strong monkeys. "

This view would encourage investors to keep their money with Madoff.

4/19/2013 12:49:57 PM

Quote :

"The market price is what it is."

Tell us more about things that are what they are.

4/19/2013 12:58:10 PM

Quote :

" This view would encourage investors to keep their money with Madoff."

What does this have to do with owning gold as a way to preserve purchasing power?

4/19/2013 1:40:14 PM

Quote :

"Mr. Joshua something about shaking monkeys out of trees and such nonsense and then maybe some song lyrics 4/15/2013 8:32:36 PM"

4/19/2013 1:41:50 PM

Quote :

"It is what it is when it's down, but when it's up it's "I told you so""

No, even when it's up, it's still heavily distorted. Regardless of the price, the fundamental reasons to have gold are still there.

Quote :

"Nice strawman. I think the view is that it can sustainably go up given a complex set of things at work, and that there is a level where it gets out of control. It's a lot tougher to understand than the simplistic "personal finance" views people generally talk about."

I'm not sure how anyone looks at revenue and spending in the U.S., taking into account the political climate, and thinks that's sustainable and bullish for the dollar.

4/19/2013 1:54:51 PM

in this thread I learned that gun nuts, fluoride nuts, and psychopaths are gold buyers

4/19/2013 2:01:38 PM

You should try actually learning something rather than trolling TWW. There are plenty of people here that can have a reasonable discussion about serious topics. You aren't one of them.

4/19/2013 2:04:24 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure how anyone looks at revenue and spending in the U.S., taking into account the political climate, and thinks that's sustainable and bullish for the dollar."

You can still be bullish on the dollar. It's not hard when you look at how much worse things are in the rest of the world. The dollar looks great vs. the Euro, the pound, and pretty much every other currency you might ever consider.

4/19/2013 2:14:08 PM

Quote :

"You can still be bullish on the dollar. It's not hard when you look at how much worse things are in the rest of the world."

Is it really that much worse in the rest of the world? The U.S. has a hugely inefficient health care market, is overextended militarily, and has tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities. The U.S. is nowhere near being able to reduce a current or next year's budget, much less able to eliminate the deficit and pay down the debt. There may be some countries that are at a more critical stage in their collapse, but long-term, I think the U.S. has the most to lose. The U.S., issuing the reserve currency, is positioned to benefit the most from the current order.

With ZIRP, growth is pretty much as high as could be expected. Any hike in interest rates would cripple the economy.

With the recent debunking of Reinhart & Rogoff, we can't claim to know about any magical debt to GDP ratio where the economy fails, not that we ever should have. It's quite clear that the U.S. is not moving in a positive direction though. Sequestration is a joke when the untouchable parts of the budget are still through the roof.

[Edited on April 19, 2013 at 2:32 PM. Reason : ]

4/19/2013 2:30:44 PM

Don't get me wrong, I think we have serious looming financial issues, but compared to Europe we are still much better off. I'm by no means bullish long term on the US economy, but near to medium term we're still in comparatively good shape.

I think owning a small amount of physical gold or silver is probably a good idea, but not something you need to do in a significant way right now or as long as the US equity market is by far the place to be. Ultimately gold is good for 2 things: Holding during unstable/poor economic times and then selling once things stabilize/rebound in order to turn a profit and free up capital or as a safety net against economic collapse that you squirrel away.

I mean, gold is not going to go to zero, but the likelihood of shares in things like GE, Ford, Cat, etc. going to zero are slim to none and will probably be better investment vehicles for you.

4/19/2013 2:40:36 PM

Quote :

"What does this have to do with owning gold as a way to preserve purchasing power? "

Nothing, it has to do with the stupidity of the statement quoted. If you want to "preserve purchasing power" there are ways just as good or better than gold because they are more stable and less speculative.

Quote :

"Regardless of the price, the fundamental reasons to have gold are still there."

Do any of these have to do with the Thunderdome?

Quote :

"Is it really that much worse in the rest of the world?"

Is it that bad here? We have a great amount of growth and plenty of potential. Political problems have been around forever, and they happen everywhere.

4/19/2013 3:24:30 PM

Quote :

" Nothing, it has to do with the stupidity of the statement quoted. If you want to "preserve purchasing power" there are ways just as good or better than gold because they are more stable and less speculative."

You can argue that if you want but I don't see your argument written anywhere. I'd be open to it since there are alternative ways to preserve your purchasing power other than gold.

But, if you understand the current conditions in the gold market, his statement isn't stupid at all just reflective of the situation. The orchestrated smash in the spot price of Gold was used to shake weak hands out of the market, so I have no idea what this has to do with ponzi schemes as you infer.

4/19/2013 3:32:53 PM

Quote :

"You can argue that if you want but I don't see your argument written anywhere."

That would be why I posted it.

Quote :

"The orchestrated smash in the spot price of Gold was used to shake weak hands out of the market, so I have no idea what this has to do with ponzi schemes as you infer."

I feel like you're trying to figure out what I'm thinking rather than reading what I am saying. The "shake the tree hard and some monkeys fall out" argument could be used during any collapse. It speaks nothing to the strength of the tree and assumes it will continue standing. If the tree falls the monkeys that fell out made the right choice. The statement was stupid is all I'm pointing out.

4/19/2013 3:36:53 PM

Not if it applies.

4/19/2013 4:32:31 PM

good argument

thought provoking

throughly thought out

4/19/2013 5:28:22 PM

Not if it apples.

4/19/2013 7:49:28 PM

a monkey shakes golden apples out of a collapsed tree

4/21/2013 8:21:21 AM

1. even in the deep dark jungle people have laptops and even illiterate people have cellphones to check the prices of things: The World has gotten MUCH smaller.

2. There now exist very safe financial products that rival gold.

3. people are way more educated now than in the past. People know it doesn't really have such a high worth because it doesn't generate any revenue.

at some point, there will be a mass realization among the new aboriginal middle class that gold is worthless. That will spark off a world-wide permanent devaluation of Gold.

You can see people behave like this here in China about eating chicken whenever there is a bird-flu scare. These Shanghai people are already starting to hoard things other than gold and that trend will spread fast.

4/22/2013 1:15:02 PM