As requested -like I need an excuse-... Here’s my thoughts of the three cars.

So I have all 3 at the moment. I have instructed in, or driven, or raced all 3.

OK,
The 996 turbo (mine is modified with factory track suspension, a little over 500 hp with tuning, bypass valves, etc), Pagid Yellow pads, stainless lines;
Fantastic NVH vs. feedback. Amazing manners putting power down, driven properly has a tad of easily controlled oversteer. Turbo lag is close to non existent, but it feels like it’s yearning for more rubber. Someone not used to a 911 may find it goes up against under/oversteer constantly near the limit, though the limits are comically high on the street, I could imagine a less experienced driver being confused with the sudden onset of either at the limit. On a related note, it’s difficult to smoothly drift, the boost build up is not consistent and minute corrections are difficult to say the least, but again driven properly and not just for hooning, the car’s just great. One downside -and I’m not just trying to be a douche- it makes other cars seem utterly boring. This car also has a sense of occasion that I’d not felt with any other car besides a GT3. I looked for just the one for over a year and bought it as soon as I found one, and it was everything I thought it could be, and more. It’s permanently changed what I will look for from cars... I don’t want to own another car that doesn’t have character! Sadly mine’s now for sale. I want either a GT2 or a Ferrari 360 CS. Don’t know if I can justify either of those, time will tell.

E36 M3. Mine’s got a bunch of modifications including H/R Race Springs + Bilstein shocks, + full A/A exhaust from headers back, no cats (simulators), full intake and tuning. Feels to have 280hp or so, pulls very strong. It’s also on rotting tires... I specifically bought this car because I enjoy having a car sideways, and on that note about tires, it has absolutely no grip. I intend to keep it on 7.5 inch wide wheels all around... It is a blast to drive, I’m constantly sideways with it. The engine tone is great, the car seems to beg for more. I really appreciate these cars, they’re tough as nails and are so cheap that -though I completely respect everything it is and represents to me-, I’m not as worried about exploring it’s limits near curbs or the like. I’ll post a vid in a bit to show you what I mean. I’m nothing like Pat (worrying about a suction cup on the paint), but if I bumped a rocker panel against the curb in my Porsche, I’d be pretty unhappy about it... The car’s too unrefined to drive everyday however, which is why I don’t think I ever want an e36 M3 as a primary car ever again. They’re fun, but I wouldn’t want to take a road trip with it. Too loud, too harsh, too many rattles, gearing’s kinda short for highway trips also.

Mini Cooper S; again mine’s pretty modified. Low and stiff suspension, intake and exhaust. It’s getting ready to have it’s supercharger modified, just put in the colder plugs. Adorable whine from the supercharger with burbling exhaust on the back side. The latter may be what sold me on it. I was pretty set to buy an Abarth 500 (which also has a fantastic exhaust tone)and drove them several times back to back with the Mini. I “like” the Abarth better, but the driving dynamics of the Mini are so much better that it’s hard to overlook the shortcomings of the Abarth in comparison. The fact that the Mini is hardly depreciating anymore is a nice bonus also. Anyway, the short wheelbase with the quick steering ratio make the Mini a ton of fun to drive. It has a ridiculous amount of grip. I really enjoy a car that challenges it’s driver on power, and I appreciate that it’s the front end of this car that I have to watch for on power. It’s still fairly tail happy and does rotate quickly when necessary. I love the packaging and ergonomics. My car settles into a corner very quickly, I can’t say I’m all that used to it. It’s higher speed/transitional behavior is unusual. Much like other BMWs, it seems to prefer a more natural apex, whereas the 911 (especially the turbo/GT cars) really like to be late apexed and steered with the throttle.

Random notes;

I’d always wanted a 996 GT3, but having driven them back to back with my turbo, I’m hesitant to go that route as even though the GT3s feel much better in some ways(perhaps too twitchy and bouncy for some), the lack of stability control may be a turn off to some, but it makes those cars more special to me... The lack of power is very evident for that chassis. This is why I started considering GT2s more strongly. Some friends have suggested I try the 997 turbo also. If money was no object (and I had a lot more of it!) I’d almost certainly own a 997 GT3 4.0 RS...

I’ve wondered if I’d want to live with a late model Z3 M coupe myself actually, I feel like that could be a good car for me. I can’t stand the engine tone in those though. :/ I’m pretty sure I’d be happier with a 996 GT3 and the Mini. I’ll keep this in mind while I get rid of the turbo for the moment.

4/7/2014 5:39:30 PM

what is this thread about?

[Edited on April 7, 2014 at 5:59 PM. Reason : brag attempt thread?]

4/7/2014 5:59:36 PM

I'll allow it

4/7/2014 6:09:58 PM

Why are you selling the 996?

4/7/2014 7:45:08 PM

I started the thread mostly b/c I had too much to write as a response to Colemania’s question in the roof rack thread.

That said, I couldn’t fault anybody for thinking I’m trying to show off. I’m proud of these cars, I really rather like them, but I can be just as excited about a Saturn (well, only an SL1), it’s a more childish and pure desire I have to share my thoughts and experiences with them. Same reason I really enjoy instructing, even if I don’t come across that way.

I think I’m selling the turbo for several reasons (I don’t have a garage, I’m reminded of how much more I’d rather have a GT2 or something a little more hardcore etc), but I suspect a lot of it is just having car ADD. I don’t tend to keep a car that long, and I like switching often. That’s the only way one gets to really learn about a car, how to drive them, dynamics, etc.

BTW, I’d like to post a youtube vid, forget the command to embed?

4/7/2014 8:09:03 PM

Ha, I'll take the blame for this one. I've always been curious about the Cooper S and have tooled around with the idea of one. They depreciate well, I think they're cool, I'm a fan of small cars, and they're readily available in manuals.

My M Coupe ('00) has the s52, and a lack of 4 seats, so I've always considered an e36 m3. At this point though, I'm not sure I could find a clean one at market price and still feel like it was a good deal - I'd end up ponying up a couple grand to get something else. I spent about ~12 on my coupe and another 3 on the subframe, for a total of $15k with 80k miles, bilstein spring/shock, cai, oil cooler, and I recently put some ASA AR1s on it to replace the roadstars. It's a blast, but I primarily bought it for emotional reasons as I was obsessed as a young teen and there's just nothing like it on the road.

In the next few years, I have a few cars I'd like to get in (but may not be able to kick the coupe out of the garage): another s2000, z4/z4m coupe, boxster/cayman s, nice cooper s, s4 (if i go to one car), e46 m3, etc.

I'm in Cincinnati, so, I'm typically left with the option of toughing it out with winter tires of having a second vehicle (had an old audi, now have a subaru outback).

Anyways, I'm always interested in owners opinions who have had a variety of cars, know the market, and experience/knowledge to judge how they perform. Thank you sir!

With the old nasty rims:


[Edited on April 7, 2014 at 8:47 PM. Reason : ]

4/7/2014 8:40:51 PM

go to "share" on the youtube video, copy the html it generates for embedding, and just paste it in here...

but unless things have changed, you have to be a premium member on here to use HTML. If you are not, send it to me, i'll use my super mod powers and post it for you.

4/7/2014 10:48:55 PM

I enjoy reading this. Thank you for taking the time to share Ahmet

4/7/2014 11:43:10 PM

XOXO GUYZ!1 <3

Vid, somebody feel free to embed (this is what I bought the e36 for, it’s great at it. It IS rather twitchy and I wouldn’t recommend it to a novice under any circumstances without tons and tons of runoff);
http://youtu.be/fKGvXFziT74

I think the Z3 M Coupe is a fantastic and very special car. They ARE similar to an e36 M3/4 door which is a far more practical car. Power/weight ratio is a bit worse on the e36, and it also has a slower steering rack with a bigger steering wheel. If I was dedicated to owning one, I’d change those things perhaps. I know what you mean about wanting a clean one though, those are getting harder to find, and the money for a clean one is hard to justify.

Another car I’d wanted to own but couldn’t quite convince myself to pick up is the EVO 8/9 btw. They’re a little too tingy (hollow) for my taste, but excellent chassis set up none the less.

Anyway, I’m happy to continue to debate/discussion if anybody has questions or comments.
XOXOs!

4/8/2014 12:06:39 AM

What was the reason for purchasing the cooper? Would that as your lone 'fun' car quickly get boring? Bear in mind, I havent gone nearly as extreme as you have, just 'normal' fun (s2000, m coupe, etc).

Regarding the differences, I believe they carry a near identical 0-60, so perhaps the flickability would be the most noticeable thing. The coupe is surprisingly heavy (someone will correct me on this but I think it's around 3250?). Also, Im guessing we have a similar wheel - it's huge for the car. And the shifter was insanely tall (has since been replaced with a ZHP and a whalen knob).

The evo seems a bit boy racer, I'd rather have a STI even if it's not as satisfying to drive (slightly less bro, slightly more acceptable). Speaking of unacceptable, Id like to score a shitty, modified miata at some point this summer for messing around.

4/8/2014 12:48:29 AM

Quote :

"I’m nothing like Pat (worrying about a suction cup on the paint), but if I bumped a rocker panel against the curb in my Porsche, I’d be pretty unhappy about it..."

4/8/2014 9:35:59 AM

embedded for Ahmet

also...turn right to go left...hahahaha

4/8/2014 9:56:14 AM

Just accepted a deposit on the 996 turbo, she’s going bye bye. Will post more soon. :’(

4/8/2014 9:47:25 PM

^^ I start drifting w/the throttle. I don’t ever dump the clutch or pull the e-brake. Just what I’m used to, I also don’t bounce off the rev limiter when I’m drifting, try to finesse things around 4k rpm if I can help it. So much easier for the car.

4/8/2014 9:49:21 PM

Ever driven one of the newer turbo Coopers? Any comparison to the supercharger?

4/9/2014 11:25:36 AM

I’ve driven a clubman S, mostly because a friend has one. Those ARE more comfortable and quieter though I don’t like the newer cabin, it’s a lot more plasticy and the car is heavier. In any case, I prefer the feel and very much the sound of the earlier engine. Also, I don’t like that the scoop on the hood is no longer functional

4/9/2014 12:41:16 PM

Quote :

"full A/A exhaust from headers back, no cats (simulators), full intake and tuning"

I have the same intake/exhaust/cats setup on my M3, and god it sounds amazing. Its ungodly loud from inside though now that I've stripped the interior entirely behind the front seats hah. Roll bar with backstays was welded in last week, I'm going full HPDE / TT car with mine since I have another daily driver now. The M3 will still be driveable to the track, albeit it with earplugs for long distances probably.

Somewhat randomly my instructor at a track day turned out to be the person I bought the exhaust setup from, and the event made her want it back hah. I got to push the car reasonably hard last year on Bristol Motor Speedway, and going over 100mph inches from the wall was the most incredible sound...this video doesn't entirely do it justice because I was having to lift a lot because I was catching the pace car, but you can at least get the idea, such an incredibly pure sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRjRcNxMkPY

4/12/2014 11:50:33 PM

Ya, the sound is amazing I completely agree. I don’t think it’s bad at all from inside the car (I do have a resonator instead of the cats, don’t know if yours is exactly the same set up) but indeed it’s a bit loud from outside. I’m still wondering what I want to do with this car. I feel like both my cars are a tad bit more of a project than I really wanted, but we’ll see. The Cooper’s pretty under braked, even at around 200hp or whatever it’s making now, before I try to get more power out of it.

Quote :

"The evo seems a bit boy racer, I'd rather have a STI even if it's not as satisfying to drive (slightly less bro, slightly more acceptable). Speaking of unacceptable, Id like to score a shitty, modified miata at some point this summer for messing around."

It seems that way, but I’d highly recommend driving them back to back. The STI is not a satisfying drive at all, despite it being a “cool” car. I had considered an STI, but having driven EVOs, just couldn’t go for it. And the EVO drives great (8 and 9 that is), but I don’t like it as a car so I never bought one. :/

4/13/2014 8:32:00 PM

yep, i thought i wanted an STi back around '06 or '07. I test drove one, but the Subaru dealership was absolutely, appalling terrible, so while I looked around for an STi, I figured, what the hell, I guess I ought to drive an Evo before making the decision for sure.

All it took was about 5-10 minutes in an Evo IX to know that there was no contest. That was the end of my interest in an STi; I bought an Evo IX a little while later.

4/13/2014 10:34:15 PM

The prices on these Evos are nuts:

http://onslow.craigslist.org/cto/4415606522.html
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/4380409755.html

Supply/demand I guess.

4/14/2014 10:06:28 AM

Yeah they kinda stopped depreciating a few years ago, it seems.

I bought mine with 7k miles and STILL sold for a profit after 1.5-2 years, with prob 30k miles or close to it.

The IX is the most desireable one to many people, and it was only produced in '06.

4/14/2014 1:57:33 PM

The used sports car market has been an interesting thing to study the last few years. It says a lot about the current state of the (affordable) sports car industry when so many cars that have been discontinued, for which there are no modern equivalents, have been holding their value due to demand.

Weird.

4/14/2014 3:21:12 PM

I wouldn't use the Raleigh area market for that "study", though.

4/14/2014 5:03:43 PM

e46 m3 and e39 m5 have used prices have largely remained unchanged over the last 3-4 years.
clean e36 m3s have actually gone up in value to the point that similar mileage e36 and e46 dictate the same price. i sold two E39 M5 for profit after adding 20-30k on each.

evo 9s are getting into nsx class of used prices ridiculousness

4/14/2014 5:21:20 PM

I drove a base mini the other day and it was pretty anemic... Also very twitchy. If it was mine I'd have had more fun with the twitchy thing I couldn't stop thinking how much fun it would be with instant torque like the tdi. Oh well...

4/14/2014 7:49:12 PM

Used car prices are indeed craziness. I want a 996 GT2, they seem to have bottomed @ ~$80k

Re: The Mini, a gen 1 cooper S weighs under 2400lbs, I hope to get around 240hp from mine, it’s already far from anemic with what I guess to be around 195hp, and the handing is pretty darn neutral with just a set of coil overs.

E36 M3 (especially sedans) in my opinion are pretty special cars. They’re straightforward to work on, are still nimble and simple and are pretty inexpensive to buy and own. They do weigh around ~3100lbs, it’s crazy to think that’s comparable or heavier than a 996. E46 M3s are cool, but they feel even more plasticky than an E36, heavier and terrible engine tone, though the chassis isn’t bad and the engine is super responsive...

4/15/2014 1:40:35 PM

Quote :

"I wouldn't use the Raleigh area market for that "study", though."

For the Cayman and other cars I was researching one would never find the car you want just looking around Raleigh. When the vehicle is question was never made in huge quantities (few thousand a year) you have you search fairly far and wide. Outside of California - which is pretty much like a used sports car super store - the trend is mostly similar.

4/15/2014 3:42:57 PM

Updates:
The Mini w/the under drive pulley has indeed picked up noticeable power, though probably quite shy of claims. I’d consider a tune but really the car’s a ball to drive as is. Notable complains are the terrible ride which is exasperated by the rattle-y interior. I can’t stand BMW for this. I’m chasing down rattles but honestly many of them seem like design flaws. One of the biggest rattles was coming from a footwell light, not really broken, just hard plastic on hard plastic... Nothing a bit of felt couldn’t fix, but c’mon on a modern car? The other big surprise is the gas mileage. I didn’t buy this car for it’s gas mileage but it’s amazing how fast it drops as you go past 80mph. It can easily get 29-32mpg at 70-75mph, drops to low 20s by mid 80mph range, crazy. And finally, this is evident from driving it, but the close ratio gearbox is a hoot. 5th tops out shy of 120, that’s awesome. I’m not used to cars that are geared in a way that actually makes sense. On the flip side, I wonder how much mileage suffers from the gearing at speed.

M3 -haven’t driven much. Though yesterday I got a thumbs-up from an older couple (in a CR-V) after getting sideways behind them at an intersection. At the next light I roll down my window and asked them if they were being sarcastic, they both laughed and said no, that they had fun.lolz Anyway, trying to decide if I want to track this car or just drift it or what. After replacing the oil light switch, at warm idle the oil pressure light flickers on. I suspect it just has junky oil in it (0-20 from a quick lube place? as per the sticker). Though I have to wonder if the old oil pressure switch was messed with -maybe the pin bent- so the light never comes on? Wonder if the previous owner saw the light and decide to move it? Who knows. About to change the oil with 10-60 motorsports oil, we’ll see what it does. If I still see a hint of the light, I could throw rod bearings at it I guess, not a particularly hard job. I still like this platform, but it’s showing it’s age in many areas. I’m probably too much of a princess to enjoy it daily at this point. Maybe I could pick up a super clean one, turbo or supercharged? Meh.

996 turbo -has been gone for a little while. The refinement and NVH/feedback ratio is sorely missed, however I’m plenty entertained w/the current crop of cars. The open diff in the rear w/that much power + the stability system that came on even when turned off (under braking with a yaw angle) was super annoying. I’m thinking about a GT2 or GT3 but not ready to pull the trigger yet, I don’t think.

5/1/2014 10:48:58 AM

^ I took my M3 out for a spin the other day for the first time in a few weeks, and boy does it put a grin on my face. It's now completely stripped out behind the front seats down to the sheet metal, with a substantially braced roll bar (basically the main hoop and back from a full NASA/SCCA cage) and a Recaro bucket seat with a 6 point harness.

I've been busy getting my LeMons car ready for this weekend's race at CMP, so I haven't had time to really complete it. As soon as I'm back from the race I'll start finishing it up to get it ready for a NASA track day at CMP May 17th-18th. The harness sub belts aren't quite mounted in the right spot, the roll bar needs paint and padding, and I'm hoping to have a passenger seat and harnesses installed for the track day too in case I want an instructor to hop in with me. I'm qualified solo/DE2 with NASA, but I can definitely still learn a lot.

Oh, and the hood cable that goes from the first latch to the second latch popped out, so I can't pop the hood right now. From what I've read the fix is to take the bumper off and the aux fans out so you can get up to the latch from the bottom...yay. I have a set of Aerocatches waiting to be installed...this thing is definitely going full track rat lol.

Are you doing any instructing these days, Ahmet?

5/1/2014 12:59:23 PM

Ahmet, I passed through some tunnels on my way to a track day last weekend, thought you'd appreciate the sound (I know I know, vertical video, but its for the sound not the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui9K0WyMuUI&feature=youtu.be

Man I love the way a BMW straight 6 sounds with a free flowing exhaust at WOT

7/9/2014 11:12:22 AM

8 seconds of video, c’mon man you can do better than that! Tease...

Yesh, they can sound pretty good. I like them when the intake sound doesn’t overwhelm the exhaust, and a little snackle pop pop from the exhaust is nice.

7/9/2014 11:30:11 AM

^^love it. I'm itching to get a more free flowing exhaust for my Cayman. The high rpm wail of a Porsche flat six is intoxicating.

^exhaust pops on overrun are soooooo great

7/9/2014 1:22:56 PM

So I took the 911 turbo out in the rain...

The car’s SO hard to control, especially stuff like compound drifts. At higher speeds, you really have to be on your game, the thing is violent. Probably not a fair shake down, it’s on pretty crappy and bald tires, but I think the open diff doesn’t help matters. Up to and around 50-60mph it’s not so bad, but mid third gear and it gets super hairy.

I really want to drift this thing, but even in lower gears breakaway is rather sudden and it seems like the momentum spikes the yaw angle almost immediately. If you apply enough throttle and are aggressive to give opposite lock, you can hold a slide, but still. It makes this look rather tame;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7yhiUNTC-Y

Anyway, I think I’ll make a few videos. Anybody got cheap cameras for me? I’ve got mounts.

7/14/2014 12:46:27 AM