http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/national_world&id=9532969

I know it will take more than a few changes for them to run a profit, but I don't get why the government won't let them stop Saturday delivery. The postal service is pretty much pointless because of the phone and internet. Plus you can always use FedEx and UPS to ship parcel too. That's what NC State does with season tickets.

5/9/2014 10:48:18 PM

5/9/2014 11:02:36 PM

5/9/2014 11:19:17 PM

Those motherless fucks utterly destroyed an insured package I sent home to myself from overseas, then refused to pay the claim unless I could produce a receipt to prove its value. I couldn't; it was from a street vendor in Doha.

That was 2010; I haven't sent anything USPS except stamped envelopes ever since, and can't wait for that whole damned organization to bite the dust. Fuck them.

5/9/2014 11:46:43 PM

5/9/2014 11:56:51 PM

They need to eliminate the bureaucracy on how the postal service operates, give the managers free reign. This applies to all government entities too, IMO. Their business model shouldn't be dictated by law.

5/10/2014 12:50:28 AM

Why is everyone assuming the postal service is supposed to make a profit?

5/10/2014 1:03:52 AM

^^ why is that?

(I just wanna see you write it)

5/10/2014 1:30:43 AM

ha i know what you're thinking... but regulations to safeguard against wrongdoing, and having congress stick their fingers through all levels of management are different things.

I used to work for the state, and the same thing happened... Maybe the postal service doesn't operate this way at all, but at the state level, there literally has to be a legislative vote to approve specific salary adjustments to low-level employees. A department could be cutting people left and right, while a pot of cash is sitting there, because legislative rules prohibit it from being reallocated. If the government is going to have organizations to run its functions, it must be able to trust the people managing them. There of course will be abuses, as with all organizations, but that's why you have strict penalties for wrong doing.

This is the subject of a book (that i haven't read-- i just saw the interview with the author) out now called "why government Fails So Often and how it can do better." Government doesn't not-work any more than businesses, the differences are it impacts many peoples' lives, and congress is too ineffective to fix things quickly. There needs to be less bureaucracy.

5/10/2014 2:07:41 AM

Quote :

"Why is everyone assuming the postal service is supposed to make a profit?"

Well they are an independent agency that receives no tax dollars from the government according to the article. The problem is they are over regulated. Why shouldn't they make a profit? UPS, DHL, and FedEx are in the business of shipping packages and they all make a profit. One of the recent business plans presented to the government by the USPS called for no more Saturday delivery EXCEPT for parcel. Congress turned it down though and said they have to keep delivering all of that junk mail on Saturday too. Honestly, if they have to up their rates to make a profit then they need to be allowed to do that even if that means $2.00 stamps. I never use the postal service anymore. I have a lot of bills to pay, but they can all be paid online. When I need to talk to the guy in charge of my IRA I pick up the phone. I have at least 3 parties to go to over the next 7 days. Everyone of them has been organized through facebook, e-mail invite, texting, or word of mouth. The postal service is pretty much useless today.

5/10/2014 11:19:22 AM

I'm going to bite on this and ask... when do you think the USPS makes the most money? They presumedbly have the same overhead costs and similar staffing levels year round (being a fed employee esp. a usps fed employee ensures this) and during the last two months of the year they probably make a ton more revenue compared to fixed costs.

Also, is there some assumption by OP that all profitable companies have profitable first quarters?

Quote :

"Those motherless fucks utterly destroyed an insured package I sent home to myself from overseas, then refused to pay the claim unless I could produce a receipt to prove its value. I couldn't; it was from a street vendor in Doha. That was 2010; I haven't sent anything USPS except stamped envelopes ever since, and can't wait for that whole damned organization to bite the dust. Fuck them. "

How dare they try to prove you weren't lying about your insured value. Should they just believe you? Isn't that mail fraud or something?

[Edited on May 10, 2014 at 6:50 PM. Reason : .]

5/10/2014 6:48:23 PM

people saying that ups and fedex make a profit should note they heavily leverage the usps because they deliver to unprofitable places like montana because they are required to.

5/10/2014 9:31:28 PM

Shit should be on every other day delivery for residential addresses mon-sat, daily delivery m-f available to businesses that apply for it, or else they get every other business day. grant daily based on volume, as these are revenue generators for the postal service , or for demonstrated business need.

Daily pickup from the blue postal boxes as it currently is.

You'll get bills/letters no more than one day later. I really don't see any cases where this will cause any harm to the parties involved.

Parcel delivery, you could probably make a case for daily delivery, as they will need this to compete with ups and FedEx.

(Frankly, I'd be for twice weekly residential delivery)

5/10/2014 10:28:17 PM

Some quick googling, there's about 300,000 postal carriers, they make an average wage of 50,000/year....

I'd estimate that you could cut that number to 200,000 carriers by doing residential every other day, and only certain businesses daily. That might be conservative, to be honest, but you might need some more sorting, and trucks might fill faster, so halving the amount would be foolish. Either way...

You'd save 5 billion annually in wages alone. Ignoring benefits and payroll taxes...(taxes alone would be over 500 million)

The postal service drives 1.2 billion miles a year, say they can reduce that by 1/4 (you'd lose some efficiencies by having carriers out every day), and we figure the cost per mile in fuel and vehicle wear is $0.50 (a reasonable estimate)... You'd save another 150 million annually.

[Edited on May 10, 2014 at 10:42 PM. Reason : .]

5/10/2014 10:41:22 PM

Quote :

"I'm going to bite on this and ask... when do you think the USPS makes the most money? They presumedbly have the same overhead costs and similar staffing levels year round (being a fed employee esp. a usps fed employee ensures this) and during the last two months of the year they probably make a ton more revenue compared to fixed costs. Also, is there some assumption by OP that all profitable companies have profitable first quarters?"

We're talking about the USPS. They've been running in the red for quite a while. These numbers are not a good sign for them.

Quote :

"Shit should be on every other day delivery for residential addresses mon-sat, daily delivery m-f available to businesses that apply for it, or else they get every other business day. grant daily based on volume, as these are revenue generators for the postal service , or for demonstrated business need. Daily pickup from the blue postal boxes as it currently is. You'll get bills/letters no more than one day later. I really don't see any cases where this will cause any harm to the parties involved. Parcel delivery, you could probably make a case for daily delivery, as they will need this to compete with ups and FedEx. (Frankly, I'd be for twice weekly residential delivery)"

Well said. They need to reduce employee hours and the number of employees. And you're right, it would be no big deal if you get your mail a day later. Most bills can be paid online and have a 30 day grace period, so you have about a month to pay your bill late without any kind of penalty.

5/11/2014 1:04:49 AM

in a month, i get maybe two items in the mail that don't go directly in the trash

5/11/2014 8:28:33 AM

What would be the economical effect of cutting 100,000 people being paid 50k out of the work force?

5/11/2014 9:34:00 AM

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/US-Postal-Service-Salaries-E3032.htm

Wow never knew that mailmen got paid that much.. I kinda figured it was like most government jobs where you are in it for the benefits...

5/11/2014 9:55:17 AM

If UPS and FedEx had to deal with all the congressional interference that the USPS does, they'd lose $2B a year too. It would not be difficult to fix the postal service, if Congress would let them (ie reduce the # of delivery days, pricing flexibility, and drop service to unprofitable areas).

5/11/2014 10:42:56 AM

Quote :

"If UPS and FedEx had to deal with all the congressional interference that the USPS does, they'd lose $2B a year too. It would not be difficult to fix the postal service, if Congress would let them (ie reduce the # of delivery days, pricing flexibility, and drop service to unprofitable areas)."

Everyone needs some sort of delivery service, so that could be an issue, but I'm sure they could figure something out like no mailbox delivery and everyone would have to drive to the post office to get their mail out of a post office box. Maybe they could charge people out in the middle of no where a lot of money to have their mail delivered to their houses.

5/11/2014 12:24:48 PM

There are not enough PO boxes to serve all the people on a delivery route. So your idea is to buy more land and build more post offices, and then on top of that, instead of a few people going to all the houses in a ZIP code, have everyone walk/drive to the post office to get their mail? That seems like it'd be wasteful and would piss a lot of people off.

[Edited on May 11, 2014 at 3:46 PM. Reason : .]

5/11/2014 3:45:08 PM

Quote :

"How dare they try to prove you weren't lying about your insured value. Should they just believe you? Isn't that mail fraud or something? "

It was insured for a stated value and they charged me a premium based upon that stated value.

If you bought, say, $500k of life insurance and then died, the insurance company wouldn't be able to weasel out of paying by forcing the beneficiary to validate your earnings potential. No, you insured your life for $500k, paid the agreed upon premium, and now they pay up.

If you build a custom kit car and insured with a stated value policy for $50k, they would charge you a premium based on that, and if you wrecked it or it got stolen or whatever, they'd pay you $50k.

If they wanted proof of the value of the item, they should have settled it on the front end when I shipped it and they charged me an insurance premium based on a stated value. The value of the item has nothing to do with anything, anyway. I could mail myself a penny with $100 of insurance on it; the insurance cost is based on $100 of coverage and their actuarial tables (i.e., statistically they know how often they lose or destroy packages). Don't believe me? Well, if I shipped myself $1000, and insured it for $100, and they charged me for $100 of coverage, should they be obligated to pay me $1000 if they lose the package? Of course not.

5/11/2014 5:15:26 PM

Let's be serious guys. You can mail a letter any where in the US to anywhere else in the US for 50 cents.

It's not really a profitable business model.

5/11/2014 5:54:11 PM

^^^I agree that would be a problem. I was just kind of tossing ideas out there. Like I said, they need to up the rates for sending stuff to the middle of no where, or maybe charge the people for keeping their optional mail box.

5/11/2014 5:58:15 PM

Quote :

"I'm sure they could figure something out like..."

The problem is those people who would be affected by this have a vote and they will always choose the status quo. The issue is that the USPS has worst corporate board ever assembled: Congress.

[Edited on May 11, 2014 at 6:55 PM. Reason : ?]

5/11/2014 6:52:12 PM

^We the people have a vote, but for some reason we sure don't seem to get what we want. I don't know of anyone who was happy with the government shut down circus earlier this year. If the government and USPO want to up rates, or make some major changes then there is nothing that can be done about it. So what if the voters in certain areas aren't happy, just make the changes like with everything else in the world.

5/11/2014 7:02:41 PM

Quote :

"What would be the economical effect of cutting 100,000 people being paid 50k out of the work force?"

This is being spread across the whole country... Would it be noticeable? I doubt it. Figure 300 million people, 300,000 carriers. Roughly 1 mail carrier per thousand people. A city of a fifty thousand, they have 50 carriers... And cut staffing by 1/3? 16 people losing their jobs. Its fairly negligible in that sense. Over the whole triangle, its quite a bit more, but how many times has IBM let go hundreds at a time?

Ultimately, there will need to be an evolution, and a phased roll out to figure out if they can get by with 2/3 of the work force... Maybe they need 3/4. You can do this the same way any other company does, too. Cut open head count, and offer voluntary packages. You'd have some separation costs to absorb, when you pay out a years salary or whatever, but it will help with the long term viability.

A phase out like this might need to happen over something like three years. I'd cut a delivery day every 12 months, starting with Saturday... Then Wednesday... And then look at operating mon-sat with every other day delivery in the third year. That's where most cuts will happen.

Fwiw, estimates of cutting Saturday delivery range between 1.5-3.5 billion in savings. Discrepancies come from needing more resources to deliver items that typically get delivered on Saturday.

5/11/2014 8:48:12 PM

Quote :

"We the people have a vote"

Right, but the only voters who care enough to vote on this issue is the ones who would lose something they are making others pay for.

Quote :

"What would be the economical effect of cutting 100,000 people being paid 50k out of the work force?"

What about the political impact. 100k people and their friends and family is a big voting block. You also have to consider the postal service jobs are often given to retired military.

[Edited on May 11, 2014 at 10:04 PM. Reason : ?]

5/11/2014 9:57:48 PM

^That is something that I have thought about too. I think I heard that the USPS isn't hiring anymore though, or at least very little. They are just going to let the attrition happen and not replace anyone who retires, or quits.

5/12/2014 10:30:24 PM

There are neighborhoods in Charlotte that still do door delivery. Wonder how much they'd save by giving these folks street mailboxes and driving that shit.

5/13/2014 11:09:38 AM

Quote :

"Why is everyone assuming the postal service is supposed to make a profit?"

C'mon man, you're smarter than that. Congress has pretty much forced the USPS to be more business like and be profitable; yet regulated it all to hell to prevent that.

[Edited on May 13, 2014 at 1:26 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2014 1:25:56 PM

congress forced them to fund a giant retiree healthcare war chest (a few hundred billion dollars) and resists their efforts to cut service to underutilized branches. it seems like you are agreeing with me that they are not supposed to be profitable.

the postal service is called out specifically in the Constitution to "establish post offices and post roads." Nothing about that implies they should be a profit-driven institution, and the USPS was a government-funded (i.e. taxpayer funded) organization until the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 which mandates that it be revenue-neutral and not profitable (the reorganization act was done to make it operate more like a private business, to limit unions and strikes).

[Edited on May 13, 2014 at 1:43 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2014 1:39:31 PM

http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/financials/annual-reports/fy2010/ar2010_4_002.htm

Quote :

"Unlike any other public or private entity, under a 2006 law, the U.S. Postal Service must pre-fund retiree health benefits.We must pay today for benefits that will not be paid out until some future date. Other federal agencies and most private sector companies use a “pay-as-you-go” system, by which the entity pays premiums as they are billed. Shifting to such a system would equate to an average of $5.65 billion in additional cash flow per year through 2016, and save the Postal Service an estimated $50 billion over the next ten years. With the announcement of our Action Plan in March, we began laying the foundation for change, requesting that Congress restructure this obligation.."

5/13/2014 1:45:23 PM

Quote :

" organization until the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 which mandates that it be revenue-neutral and not profitable (the reorganization act was done to make it operate more like a private business, to limit unions and strikes)."

Geez man.

PRA1970 == "Congress has pretty much forced the USPS to be more business like and be profitable"

"congress forced them to fund a giant retiree healthcare war chest (a few hundred billion dollars) and resists their efforts to cut service to underutilized branches" == "yet regulated it all to hell to prevent that."

5/13/2014 2:19:37 PM

PRA 1970 forces them to be revenue neutral and not profitable

5/13/2014 2:20:46 PM