OK, so in this thread I will post questions/situations on which I solicit the advice of you, the wolfweb.

I've been actively looking for work since the start of the year. I'm looking into international development and related work in the DC-Baltimore area, because this is where I have experience and it's work I enjoy. I had one interview about a month ago, did the obligatory follow-ups and have heard little to nothing back.

Yesterday I submitted an application packet for a small advising group that does infrastructure stuff. Within an hour they e-mailed me saying they wanted to call me today. That seemed awfully sudden, but sure, why not.

The guy calls today and gives me a schpiel about the company. Founded 1987, had at one time employed some 200 people, now seems to be down to about 5 full-time employees plus a dozen contractors who used to be full-time. They work almost exclusively on advising the construction of power plants, ranging from coal-fired to geothermal. I know nothing about power plants that a smart high school student couldn't tell you. Anyway, they want me to do business development, ie preparing proposals for government projects to try to get them to pick the company.

He asked me to come up for an interview, then said, "Wait, I have a thought. You could interview and then work on a trial basis for a month or so, being paid hourly. We have this proposal coming up you could work on..." We didn't decide on an hourly rate but for the full-time position he mentioned low-mid 40s, which is about what I can expect given my education and experience.

I don't know what to make of this. The trial period makes my spidey sense tingle -- I feel like they're desperate to hammer out this one proposal, after which point maybe they don't need a guy. And even if they did want me, this job does nothing for my professional development arc. It would just be a paycheck, and other than filling in time on my resume does nothing to move towards my actual career goals.

That said, I'm sick of living at home and the savings are dwindling fast. If I don't have something lined up by May, a lot of things get real bad for me, real quick.

I dunno. What would you do, wolfweb?

2/24/2016 5:48:46 PM

Do it. You'll make some quick cash, and it could very well lead to something FT. If not, that's drinking/vice money to keep you sane during your ensuing unemployment.

2/24/2016 6:24:52 PM

yep, take the job and make some money.

2/24/2016 7:23:41 PM

Take the job, don't add it to your resume, and keep looking for a new job like a mofo. Good luck with the job search.

2/24/2016 7:44:00 PM

I agree with others, do it, and maybe add it to the resume if you can represent it as something an interviewer would want to ask about.

But "trial basis" makes it seem like they want to pay you under the table, could be sketchy... If you expect to be paid more than $600 ask them where your W9 form is and see what they say (or just document your hours and accept your under the table pay if they don't screw you over).

2/24/2016 8:32:28 PM

So I'm not at all convinced that I'll make money doing the hourly thing. I don't live in DC, I'd have to find a place to live in for a month. Plus I'd have to feed myself instead of leeching off the family. Guess it'll depend on what the hourly offer is.

2/24/2016 8:46:07 PM

Is it something where they could let you work remotely? You'd need decent internet for that if you don't have it.

2/24/2016 10:05:15 PM

Quote :

"I don't live in DC, I'd have to find a place to live in for a month."

But the upside is once you're there it'll make job hunting easier. Is your gf already there?

2/25/2016 8:37:18 AM

No, she isn't. I've got friends in the DC area but with housing there being what it is, they don't exactly have guest rooms.

It's interesting, TWW is the only place where there has been any support for pursuing this.

2/25/2016 12:31:39 PM

^ I'm sure much of that support is due to "That said, I'm sick of living at home and the savings are dwindling fast. If I don't have something lined up by May, a lot of things get real bad for me, real quick."

2/25/2016 12:35:05 PM

^ but not having a place to stay is pretty crucial.

Maybe the company can put him up in an extended stay hotel, there has to be one that's not too pricey within train distance of wherever he is going to be. If he can spend a few years in a hut in Africa, DC shouldn't be that big of a deal...

2/25/2016 1:28:20 PM

or, look into an AirBnb/Craiglist sublet situation

2/25/2016 1:29:15 PM

Quote :

"Is it something where they could let you work remotely?"

2/25/2016 1:30:09 PM

I'd ask for some sort of time-based contract. Even something as long as 3-6 months so you something in writing to fall back on. I've never heard of a company doing a single one months project based type of trial employment. But hey, if it's enough to pay your bills and give you some vice money just to try out DC for yourself for a month, then go for it. You may find out you don't like living in DC as much as you thought and the whole experience could be valuable.

[Edited on February 25, 2016 at 4:36 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2016 4:36:17 PM

Quote :

"Maybe the company can put him up in an extended stay hotel, there has to be one that's not too pricey within train distance"

In the DC area? Fat chance. Place is expensive as hell.

Sublet might be possible, I'll look into it.

There was no mention of working remotely. There's no practical reason I can think of that it couldn't be done, all I'm doing is writing based on input that would mostly be e-mailed to me anyway. But I got the sense from the e-mail that the guy thought having me up there for the month was part of the appeal from his angle.

I think the plan now is to name a price bordering on the absurdly high -- $25-30/hr, say. If he doesn't take it I'll be relieved because nothing about this feels right to me. If he does it'll be enough money that I should actually come away from this with a few bucks in my pocket, so I'll get past the feelings.

2/25/2016 11:30:24 PM

we pay our help for proposals way more than 25-30 /hr (and my company is based in the DC area). Don't sell yourself short on the money scale, how did you get to $25-30?

Also, the park and ride for the train can allow you to live in a cheaper area, drive to a train station and skip (some) of the traffic. Do you know if their office is near one of the metro stops?

2/26/2016 9:50:02 AM

That rate seems too low for an employee, and extremely too low if you are doing it as a contractor

[Edited on February 26, 2016 at 10:57 AM. Reason : .]

2/26/2016 10:57:05 AM

I have no idea how hourly pay for this sort of things works. None whatsoever.

I arrived at $25/hr based on a $45,000/yr salary divided out, plus a little bit extra.

DonMega, what do your people pay for help?

2/26/2016 11:12:34 AM

a $45k salary is $21.56 an hour

$25 an hour is about $52k a year

$30 an hour is a little over $62k a year.

take the annual salary you want and divide by 2087 (standard work hours in a year).

it's not uncommon to pay contractors, especially very short term contractors, much more than you would an actual employee. plus you've gotta adjust for DC salary vs. Raleigh salary.

2/26/2016 12:50:52 PM

contractors get paid more because they are paying for their own taxes/insurance instead of the employer, so even if $25-$30/hr is a competitive rate for that job you need to be paid more so that your net is in that range

2/26/2016 3:42:37 PM

You can crash with EMCE

2/26/2016 3:43:31 PM

try and get paid weekly so if they stiff you, you're only out a week

2/26/2016 4:33:08 PM

this reminds me of the time I rented half a house in Falls Church for $220 a week

2/26/2016 5:01:15 PM

Well, I went ahead and suggested $43/hr, to which there has been no response. That seemed fair for a contractor in the area, and even though he didn't frame it as a "contractor job," that's the closest description I could think of.

I think he'd be crazy to accept, but then again, he already sounds pretty crazy. Remember, these guys contacted me within an hour of me sending in my application materials and suggested all these shenanigans the next day.

---

Now a more general question. I lie about my address on my resume, because I want a job in a geographical area where I cannot afford to live in until I get a job there. I use the address of a friend in DC who will let me know if I ever get anything in the mail there.

But what is the classy way to handle it once the interview period arrives and it becomes harder to keep up the lie? The last couple of people I have told sort of lamely that, "Well, I divide my time between NC and DC right now...I spend a lot of time in NC to save money but I have an address here..." Is there a smarter way to handle that? Plenty of sources suggest lying about the address, but few lay out a good exit strategy.

2/26/2016 5:36:46 PM

Quote :

"I think he'd be crazy to accept"

I don't think it's crazy. Doubling the salary of FTE is common to estimate contractor/consultant strategy. And we're talking about DC. That doesn't sound like a lot of money at all.

Quote :

"Now a more general question. I lie about my address on my resume"

Did you? You put down an address at which you can accept correspondence. So what? I looked into this when I was trying to move from VA to NC and didn't have an address. I put my grandparent's address.

I don't even see why they would care. Sounds like they only want this to be a temporary gig anyway.

ALSO, the main reason someone would want you to have a local address is just to confirm that you're interested in living/working there for a while, which you are.

[Edited on February 26, 2016 at 7:46 PM. Reason : aasdf]

2/26/2016 7:36:34 PM

Quote :

"what do your people pay for help?"

typically we hire someone because they know the specific customer or know something specific about the job that will help us put together the proposal. I don't know the specific numbers, but it is north of $100 an hour and I wouldn't be surprised if it is in the $150 an hour range. The situation isn't exactly the same, but that's why I thought 25-30 was way too low. If we really needed your help for a proposal, we would pay a premium for it.

2/26/2016 8:52:27 PM

Well, that job stopped responding to me for a couple of weeks and then said, "Sorry! Forgot. We hired somebody else."

Then I had an interview in Baltimore last week with a division of Johns Hopkins. Everything about this job was perfect. Yesterday I had an interview with a beltway bandit shit heap in DC. It was a disaster -- they were not paying attention, frequently misunderstood a resume that a half dozen other places had no problem with, and struggled to come up with positive things to say about the company. They as good as said that everybody had to work weekends, and the two of them each looked half dead from stress and exhaustion. I left confident I wasn't getting the job, and that I didn't want it -- but still pissed off that I'd wasted my time. Driving to DC from Greensboro is not fucking leisurely.

Then on the way back to my car I got an e-mail from the Baltimore place, telling me they'd picked another candidate but they strongly suggested I apply for a similar job in a different program. Applied for it today, but I'm worried it'll just result in another wasted train ride to Baltimore. The first job wanted "French and/or Portuguese speakers," but when I rolled up they elaborated that the position was to manage programs in Angola -- a Portuguese-speaking country. This job has the same requirement, and I'm suspicious that the same fucking thing will happen.

There's not really a point to all this kvetching, just realizing what a huge pain it is to apply to a job in other cities.

3/17/2016 1:48:59 AM

First Skype interview today, which at least saved me the drive to Baltimore. I've had to travel to that area for three others, and had one just on the phone.

Anyone else find that they become really, really fucking depressed/irritable/unpleasant after a job interview? Because I do. I've taken from hiding from the family on these days. Normally I'd do something productive and helpful like get drunk, but I gave it up for Lent. Orthodox Lent ends on May 1. I've made a terrible mistake.

3/24/2016 7:09:36 PM

I think those are pretty normal feelings. Just remember, you are not your employment status

3/25/2016 3:11:43 PM

You should Use your free time to do one of the "introduction to programming" courses on Udacity or Coursera. They're free, extremely well done, should be at a good difficulty level for you, and is a useful skill no matter what your occupation is.

https://www.udacity.com/courses/all

https://www.coursera.org/learn/r-programming

[Edited on March 25, 2016 at 4:52 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2016 4:50:13 PM

That seems like a silly recommendation.

3/25/2016 9:34:49 PM

lol j/k I just got an offer

Good news: Much more money than I expected
Bad news: Commute is like 1.5 hours each way (though at least it's on the train so I can read or sleep or whatever)
More bad news: This is one of two jobs I expected an offer from this week. It is not the one I really, really wanted. I've given the other one a heads up that time is short but I think it's a done deal.

5/18/2016 4:59:20 PM

Congratulations!

[Edited on May 18, 2016 at 5:15 PM. Reason : can the much more money part maybe cut into that commute at some point?]

5/18/2016 5:15:02 PM

Well, I fucked up pretty good.

The day after my last post, I got offered the job I really wanted. OK, great. That led to another round of panic and thought. The first offer was from National Science Foundation, the second from USDA.

I had to make a call, so I did a quick pros/cons. Bear in mind the starting pay was identical and high.

NSF Pros: Telework, chill environment, no security clearance, could start right away
NSF Cons: No advancement potential at all, not really my field, longer commute, no travel

USDA Pros: Automatic advancement (and pay increase) for several years, unless I fucked something up real bad. In my field. Travel virtually guaranteed. Generally more interested in the work
USDA Cons: Security clearance required before I could start

Well, USDA would seem to be winning hands down, but a big part of me wanted to take the sure money. I've never worried about my ability to get a clearance; my background is actually pretty tame. But I was worried that something would go wrong, or that the process would take forever. So I called my sole point of contact at this point, an HR lady (inexplicably based in St. Paul rather than DC, where I'd be working)

Either I didn't phrase the questions well, or she was just ignorant, but at any rate she indicated to me that it was completely plausible that I would start work within the month of June, or at least early July. Her reasoning was that I just needed an interim clearance, rather than the full. Strengthened with this knowledge, I accepted the USDA offer and turned down NSF. Maybe a week letter I received, filled out, and sent in my clearance paperwork.

Flash forward two months in which I've heard nothing useful. I wrote an e-mail the other day with some fig-leaf clarification question, but really I just wanted to remind the HR lady that I existed and look for updates. She informs me that I was denied an interim clearance and they have to wait for the full, which could take two, six, twelve, however many more months.

Now that I've talked to some more people it seems like this should have been obvious; I guess they don't really give interims to people who have lived overseas or done anything in their lives. I'm angry that this wasn't explained to me well; I'm angrier that the system is designed to make such an explanation impossible. There appear to be four different organs involved in this process, none of whom communicate well with each other: "my" branch at USDA HQ, the HR department working remotely out of Minnesota, the Security Dept. that decides about interim clearance, and the Office of Personnel Management, which is a separate fucking agency that handles the full clearance. My HR lady didn't know shit about the process, my hiring managers have nothing to do with it, security operates out of a closet, and OPM is a black fucking box of who knows what the fuck.

So for all intents and purposes, I'm back at square one. Yeah, the clearance is still going through, but as backlogged as they are I'll be living under an overpass by the time it comes through. People warned me about this, but I didn't listen; instead I took the word of what sounds like a 25 year old extra from "Fargo." NSF is laughing at me; another (admittedly lower-paid) position I was offered shortly after has been filled; I've turned down a dozen or so interviews in the past two months.

I've never been this low in my life. I had the option to take a job that paid about 20% than I ever expected, and I turned it down to take a risk -- what seemed like a very low risk -- on one that might be even better. Well, I've learned my fucking lesson. No more holding out for something better, no more gambling, no more concern for personal aspirations. I'm taking the next thing that will keep me from joining Baltimore's robust homeless population.

Fuck.

7/20/2016 1:50:36 PM

My advice,

contact the Hiring manager not the HR person. You have no buttons to push to motivate the HR person. They on the other hand do. Plus there are some current programs I know talking about increasing the speed and efficiency of hires for government.

Again, if they want you your boss should be working to expedite this shit on their end.

7/20/2016 2:33:03 PM

I've tried that. This is what I'm saying about all the different groups involved. The hiring manager isn't even in the same government agency as the group that does the background stuff, he's got no buttons to push. Everybody wants their guys hired more quickly, everybody. This position is for, like, cheese analyst. It ranks pretty low on the totem pole.

7/20/2016 3:33:27 PM

damn that sucks. when I went to work for NIH I started and then they decided on my internal interim clearance within a week. then maybe 6-8 months later I got a call from OPM, who gave me zero notice to have an agent come out and drill me for 6 hours. and then come back again for another 2 hours. they don't even tell you if you've passed for months. the guy literally said "just hope you don't hear from me again" and finally a few months after that I got my public trust clearance officially.

are you going through some sort of Pathways program?

7/20/2016 3:54:03 PM

i'm surprised you didn't take the other job while waiting for the clearance - if you got it quickly you quit quickly - if you got it slower then you pay the bills until the better job comes

7/20/2016 4:05:52 PM

From what the lady told me, I thought I'd be starting at the same time the other job would begin anyway. It seemed pointlessly dickish to accept both with no intention of ever even showing up to one of them. Besides, these both being federal positions I didn't know if screwing over one organization would flag me as a shit everywhere.

And thanks ^^, for essentially painting the situation as hopeless. Really appreciate it.

7/20/2016 4:23:27 PM

That blows a fat dick. My only thought would be to contact your congressman or senator. If you know anybody with any kind of leverage at the federal level get in touch with them as well and see if they can expedite the clearance process.

Outside of that it sounds like you're stuck in a morass of bureaucratic bullshit.

7/20/2016 5:07:45 PM

Yeah I had Brad Miller['s team] expedite the fuck out an issue I had with the VA once.

[Edited on July 20, 2016 at 5:12 PM. Reason : Was told a month or two and the shit happened in a week]

7/20/2016 5:12:20 PM

Ah yes, the congress method. Renee goddamn Ellmers was the first person I contacted. (I don't technically live in her district anymore, but she doesn't know that, and I'm not registered yet in Baltimore)

Turns out it's an ethics violation for a representative to help someone obtain employment, and this situation counts.

I wouldn't hold it against her personally, but I already think she's a disgusting human being, so might as well, right?

7/20/2016 5:58:43 PM

When has something being an ethical violation given anyone in congress pause?

Even if they can't technically help you get clearance I'd be surprised if they couldn't convince whoever runs checks to move your name up towards the top of the list. Of course if you aren't actually buddy buddy with a staffer or have an aunt who knows the congresswoman or something they might tell you, "sorry, no can do."

Explain that you weren't able to get a temporary authorization because you had been working with the Peace Corp, talk about how important public service is to you, blah blah blah.

Worst they can do is say no.

7/20/2016 6:38:01 PM

Way ahead of you on all that. Apparently this a pretty common occurrence, and they've got some pretty clear-cut rules. The guy said he realized it wouldn't technically be helping me get employment -- I already have the offer of employment, which can only be rescinded if the department's budget is reduced or I fail the clearance -- but I guess it has been determined that help with this would give the appearance or suspicion of their having been involved all along.

I mean, I guess it's a good thing -- we don't want a return to the days of out-and-out nepotism and spoils. But clearly my situation is not the one the rules are designed for.

7/20/2016 7:13:13 PM

Quote :

"And thanks ^^, for essentially painting the situation as hopeless. Really appreciate it."

wasn't trying to paint it to be hopeless. just saying that's not normal protocol from my experience, which is why I asked if you were doing a Pathways / Pathways Recent Grad program, which may be different.

i.e. don't give up. I studied abroad in communist China so I don't think that affects interim clearance. it sucks, just gotta be patient.

7/21/2016 9:40:10 AM

The biggest killer to getting clearance for many people is their credit. If you have decent credit, you should be good. The clearance should be the least of your worries.

7/21/2016 2:01:06 PM

^ pretty clear the clearance is all of his worries right now, and it doesn't sound like his credit is the issue. Have you read the thread?

7/21/2016 3:06:06 PM

Classic Job Hunt Shitshow

7/21/2016 3:53:21 PM

I have no worries about getting the clearance, as such. My worries are about the time frame. For the interim, it was about six weeks, which would have been livable. But I didn't get the interim. And the full clearance is not a matter of six weeks, nor probably twelve.

Except sometimes evidently it does happen that fast. Today I got another offer at the same level, this time with USCIS as a refugee officer. They also require a secret clearance. But USCIS claims that it will have to withdraw the position if I haven't started working by October 7 (when my Peace Corps-granted NCE status expires). Note that USDA has said this has not the case. Anyway, I called, and the USCIS guy said that basically they could expedite the shit out of the clearance and get me in by 10/7.

This isn't the great news one might think. Refugee officer is my last choice; it involves spending 180 days a year overseas in 45-55 day chunks. The work is brutally stressful and depressing. The conditions are shitty. And this relationship I'm in was one successful paycheck away from me proposing, so all that time apart is less than ideal.

I'm still moving forward with it because I need work, plain and simple, and the relationship will just have to survive the long separations. I'm hoping that I can write to USDA with my situation, and somehow that will light a fire under them.

It's infuriating to me that two organizations get me the same clearance on such different schedules, yet I can't use the one for the other.

[Edited on July 21, 2016 at 6:41 PM. Reason : ]

7/21/2016 6:40:24 PM

A guy that works for us as a contractor making electrical cables nearly all day every day got walked out of the a training class he was in because the government more or less at random changed his billet to one requiring a clearance that he didn't have. He was out of work for 6 months waiting on the clearance...that got stalled because he had a debt collection type action from like 5 years ago that he didn't know was pending.

I got my clearance within a couple months after I started.

7/21/2016 9:34:03 PM