I'm far from a chemist. But I know there are some smart folks on here, so I thought I'd ask you guys.

No, this isnt about making meth. I race Radio controlled cars competitively, and just like in some forms of full-scale racing, we apply chemicals to our rubber tires to soften them (increased traction) and make them sticky. Typical use is to clean dirt off tires with Simple Green, apply "secret sauce", let dry for 10-15 minutes and then go racin'.

Some common ingredients that people use: Simple Green, WD40, PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, Chlorinated brake cleaner, Kerosene, Diesel fuel, Coleman Camping Fuel (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-1-gal-Liquid-Fuel/47531141), Mineral Spirits, Xylene, Brake Fluid (DOT 3, etc.), Transmission Fluid (ATF), brake cleaner, acetone, lighter fluid, oil of wintergreen.

There are dozens of ready-made products on the market that are basically different mixtures of the above. This is great and all, but they're hella expensive, so I want to make my own.

Obviously I'll need to use the appropriate PPE and safe handling techniques, etc., but are there any obvious mixtures of the above "ingredients" that I should avoid while experimenting? Not trying to burn my garage down....


For those who may be interested - example of RC racing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQEwHoVGAbM

6/30/2016 10:09:50 AM

I'm seeing a theme of flammable solvents.

Are you actually going to experiment scientifically?

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 11:02 AM. Reason : more]

6/30/2016 11:01:42 AM

by "experiment" I meant I'm planning on mixing up different ratios of various mixtures of the above mentioned ingredients to see what works well for my needs.

I'm thinking of starting with 60% Coleman Camp Fuel (Naphtha), 30% PB Blaster (or WD40), 10% ATF or Brake Fluid.

Want something that dries completely within 15 minutes of applying to the tires, and obviously performs well on the track (traction is consistent from lap 1 till the final lap)

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 11:10 AM. Reason : .]

6/30/2016 11:08:26 AM

this is a terrible plan, let us know when it goes wrong

6/30/2016 11:35:20 AM

This isnt exactly an uncommon thing.

People have been mixing Acetone+ATF for decades, using it as a rusty bolt penetrant, etc. And racers have been mixing up all KINDS of concoctions for decades as well to soften their tires. This is nothing new.

I'm just not sure of which combinations to stay away from. I'm fairly certain most of these will play nicely together. Just wondering if anyone knows of a definite combination that does not.

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 11:43 AM. Reason : .]

6/30/2016 11:42:57 AM

might be better off asking in an RC forum

6/30/2016 12:38:49 PM

Yeah, there's TONS of info on the RC forums, but it's mostly the same info copied/pasted from one forum to the next.

But I dont exactly trust some of the info these guys are giving. Figured there may actually be some somewhat knowledgeable folks here with the chemistries.

6/30/2016 12:46:17 PM

Seems like you'd be better off finding out what the chemical composition is of the tires, then determine what changes it takes to soften them, THEN finding what chemicals cause these changes, rather than mixing a bunch of random stuff together that may or may not release toxic fumes.

6/30/2016 3:57:23 PM

They're all just petroleum products, right? Doesn't oil/natural gas come out of the ground all mixed up with most of that ish in there? Obviously their all flammable, and you shouldn't be huffing them, etc. but I would think mixing them would be ok. The exceptions to that would be the cleaning agents (brake cleaner, etc). I don't know what kind of extra solvents might be in those (although if it's dissolved in one oil-based liquid I don't see why it wouldn't dissolve in another).

[Edited on June 30, 2016 at 4:02 PM. Reason : Huffing, not hugging]

6/30/2016 4:02:12 PM

just don't while mixing these....obvi

7/1/2016 2:45:33 PM

This is a pretty bad plan that I don't recommend (since you don't have experience with chemistry). But, if you are set on doing it, I am sure that this has been done before so do some research on it first (since that is probably about 90% of chemistry anyways). Having said that, If you have no experience with working in a lab, then please don't do this alone and try to get some help from somebody with experience.

Some general No Nos of solvent mixing:

Don't do things like rapidly mixing acids and basses, as you need to think about what you will be generating. With standard organic solvents (such as hexanes and xylenes) this isn't a big issue, but when you start mixing solvents that are halogenated or protic, then you could be one beaker pour away from having a face full of corrosive material ruing your little project and likely scarring you forever. So, be sure that you won't be generating things such as HCl and HBr, and just be very cautious around halogenated solvents in general. Having a flask of it spill on your hand or having something spit out a bunch of DCM on you could burn the shit out of you. So, know what you are working with.

Be sure not to have corrosive material on your body, and be prepared to have an eye rinse of some sort ready for when things go wrong. The problem with mixing solvents is that things tend to go wrong in a bad way, and this usually ends up in people getting chemical burns (on their face) or getting their clothes caught on fire. The use of lab coats is actually controversial when it comes to solvents (as they can function to trap the chemicals in around you), but be sure to have eye protection on at all time, and do not wear any type of jewelry.

Be very careful about the scale that you do things on. Start small if you can to experiment with stuff (like around 25 to 50 mL) and then scale up cautiously in factors of 5. Scaling up too big can result in serious injury, such as having glassware bursting in your hand due to a rapid temperature change.

Obviously, I would not do this without somebody that has experience in chemistry to help you out, but if you are intent on messing around, be very careful.



[Edited on July 1, 2016 at 6:45 PM. Reason : f]

7/1/2016 6:40:26 PM

Caveat: I'm not a chemist, but I've seen some shit.

Nothing you mention seems like it would react when mixing. however, xylenes are fairly toxic so I'd avoid that unless you're working with some quality ventilation and have a legal disposal method.

If you're going to do this scientifically, what you want is a solvent swell study. Take an old tire, and cut it up into pieces maybe the size of a quarter. Try to have each piece be from a similar part of the tire... preferably the tread. Keep the thickness and size similar. Weigh a piece on a kitchen scale or something. Then soak the piece in the solvent mixture for about the same time as you would during a race. Remove, the fairly quickly dab off the surface liquid with a paper towel and weigh again. Calculate the % weight gain.

The solvent mixture with the highest weight gain should be the mixture that will work the best. More solvent generally equals better softening of the rubber. I'm assuming these tires are crosslinked and shouldn't dissolve. I'd go test out the mixture then on some fresh tires, make sure they don't get too soft (if that's even possible). If they do, just roll back to the mixture that is the right balance.

7/8/2016 10:07:07 PM

^, ^^

Thanks for the suggestions. Great ideas, and definitely some good info.

7/9/2016 8:51:20 AM

are super softs really not soft enough?

7/9/2016 10:31:00 AM

You'd think so, but actually no! We run M4 Primes, but it's still slick as hell unless you sauce (in the winter/when it's colder).

Now that it's hot as shit, we're all traction rolling using our normal sauces, so honestly you might not need to sauce all that much. I'm gonna experiment with not saucing next week and see how it goes.



[Edited on July 9, 2016 at 4:57 PM. Reason : .]

7/9/2016 4:56:13 PM

this reminds me of when the cat in hat accused mr H of saucing 20 years ago

7/14/2016 10:12:59 AM

Do not consume large volumes of beer prior to consuming liquor. You will immediately experience a vomiting sensation like never before.

Oddly enough though, consuming liquor before beer does not create the same queasiness, instead creating an aura of invincibility.

7/14/2016 10:39:32 AM

I don't see anything up there that's violently reactive with anything else listed though and no harsh oxidizers

I'd take extra special care not get around chlorinated brake cleaner though. I think it flashes off into phosgene. No telling what kind of crazy jamba juice might be going on there.

Rubber, or neoprene gloves and good ventilation should do the trick.

7/24/2016 4:27:56 AM

dont do this. you are also dealing with highly flammable vapors. one spark and the whole thing is going to explode and burn for a very long time. this type of thing would only be permissible under a fume hood in any actual lab. seems way too dangerous. you also have to account for impurities. in chemistry, we are mostly working with nearly pure starting substances. In retail products, there could be a contextually substantial impurity that you do not account for in one substance, that unexpectedly reacts violently with another substance or another impurity that you do not account for. Seems like way too many things to worry about.

7/24/2016 11:40:39 AM

Thanks for the words of wisdom and input folks.

I did some half-ass testing and made a few different concoctions based on what I've read and heard from others. I stayed away from brake fluid and brake cleaner, as the only issues I've ever heard of contained one of those.

So far, this is getting the job done quite nicely.

35% PB Blaster
35% WD40
30% Coleman Camp Fuel

However, experimentation has been put on immediate hiatus as my local track has closed down this week Hoping someone will open another track closeby soon, but the dirt may be different and will likely require a different "recipe" for tire sauce

[Edited on July 25, 2016 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

7/25/2016 9:55:15 AM

Have you tried spraying them with that 3M spray on glue? How about making little portable tire warmers, i'm sure you could run them off a lithium battery prior to the race.

If you are into chemicals I would play with methylene chloride, which can eat certain types of rubber.

If you know what your tires are made of, you could look at this list

http://www.hyvac.com/tech_support/Rubber%20Compatibility.htm and find ones that are "unsatisfactory"

or

http://www.aps.anl.gov/Safety_and_Training/User_Safety/gloveselection.html



[Edited on July 25, 2016 at 1:44 PM. Reason : Who doesn't want a legit reason to have some Chloroform]

7/25/2016 1:42:23 PM