been in my house for 5 yrs. went to refi and was told my home is in a fema flood zone . double checked and it's been in a flood zone since '06. I haven't had flood insurance for the last 5 yrs . Seller disclosure says home is not in a flood zone. the future challenge of selling the house down the road is worrisome. any advice?

8/21/2017 11:41:05 AM

Where do you live and how much is flood insurance?

8/21/2017 11:45:42 AM

This sounds like a very interesting case.

So it sounds like this was a pre-existing structure and FEMA decided to declare it in a flood zone after it was built? I wonder what the laws are situations.

So should you be up-front about it when trying to sell and explain that your home has never flooded and the area hasn't had a flood in X amount of years? Or do you hope that the buyers don't do their necessary research.

8/21/2017 11:53:21 AM

I thought a seller was legally required to disclose flood zone status. Regardless banks (or whoever is loaning the money) should be pretty good at looking up the status since they probably require you to carry insurance if you are in a zone.

I'm not sure if that means there is any legal recourse for you stopdropnrol.

8/21/2017 12:00:58 PM

That was my assumption also in terms of the seller disclosure.

8/21/2017 12:56:00 PM

Looks like the NCLeg let the NC real estate commission work out the details:
http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/ByChapter/Chapter_47E.pdf
But it clearly legally requires disclosure.


They came up with this list:
http://www.ncrec.gov/Forms/Consumer/rec422.pdf

Again, flood zone status is there, although it allows for the seller to check "No Representation"
There is also the possibility the seller had no idea they were in a flood zone (but that seems really unlikely to me).


Maybe some real estate folks or some of the resident lawyers can chime in, but it seems like somebody goofed or purposefully tried to to fuck you over. Seems like you could have some legal recourse, the real question is if that would end up being worth your time and money to pursue.

The other option being seeing if the flood model can be reviewed and the flood zones changed (can also be extremely expensive).

8/21/2017 1:30:47 PM

Sometimes FEMA Flood Insurance Rate Maps get revised, and recent revisions have placed more owners into flood zones in different areas.

Look it up here:

https://msc.fema.gov/portal

Write down the panel number and the revision (the letter on the end) for your home's location, then check out the "Show All Products For This Area" button. Click on "historic products" and look up any panel which has the panel number you wrote down earlier, but an earlier revision. The revision is always a letter, so if your current panel has an "H" on the end, look for a "G", and an "F" and look for their effective date. There are also letters of revision in areas sometimes which clarify whether items are in a flood zone.

Look for the panel which was effective on the closing date when you purchased your current home. If the panel that was effective shows you in a flood zone, then you would have more of a legal argument than not. If you were not in a flood zone at the time, then you may have missed a letter from your local jurisdiction which clarified that a FIRM panel revision affected your property. I received one of these letters from my city due to a recent revision, although luckily I'm in a condo on the 3rd floor.

Hope that helps. You also might have options when you sell your home down the road. If you can prove it meets modern code requirements for a flood zone you may be in OK shape. This is driven by ASCE 24 and your local building code. Basically the lowest occupied floor of your house has to sit out of the flood waters, simple as that. Provided you aren't in a high-velocity or coastal zone, that is.

I dunno, take a look and let us know what you find. I'll try to remember to check back in here.

8/21/2017 8:48:56 PM

Who was doing your due diligence, 5hey should have checked

8/21/2017 9:48:51 PM

last revision is showing in 2006 which is well before i purchased. On the FEMA flood hazard form there is a comment section. the comment says "primary structure clear of flooding.secondary structure in sfha.

8/21/2017 10:48:31 PM

Oh, well that should reassure you a bit. Sounds like your house is fine but you've got a detached garage or shed that's a bit lower elevation?

8/21/2017 10:54:44 PM

i'm less worried about the flooding and more worried about paying up to $7400/ year in flood insurance.

8/22/2017 2:22:32 PM

Where is your house?

There is a TWWr who I helped buy a house along Crabtree Creek a few years ago. The house actually touches a flood zone per fema maps. It is built on stilts though and has an elevation certificate (which means it is higher than the flood level). To my knowledge he has not had any problems.

If you want to PM me the address I can do some digging. This is by no means a death sentence for your house however if your house is actually in the flood zone and not elevated the lender can force you to get flood insurance.

Here is one that is an interesting case. This is on Avent Ferry, the house flooded in the crazy ass flood that happened around 2006. The owner tore it down and built this monstrosity back there. They did not add all those carports to be an amenity.. the building is raised up above flood stage. The squares in the back are drains for if the lot floods. The tenants have probably learned to move their cars if the water is rising but the building is completely safe from high water.
http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/Photo.asp?id=0066915&cd=01&loc=2809++AVENT+FERRY+RD&des=LO28+PART+OF+PROP+OF+PRODEV+LX111+LLC+BM2007-02707&pin=0793254339

8/23/2017 12:26:13 AM

Quote :

"So it sounds like this was a pre-existing structure and FEMA decided to declare it in a flood zone after it was built?"

Uh, not uncommon. FEMA isn't looking at structures. FEMA is modeling and mapping streams and their floodplains. A property / structure can be included or excluded depending on current modeling results vs previous results.

You can probably get out of the NFIP requirements if your house is elevated sufficiently; just need the EL certificate. Depending on the secondary structure, you likely aren't required to have flood insurance; though, it may be a good idea depending on the cost. Or it may be cheaper to floodproof or to what I call "flood accommodate" (provide gates in structure walls to allow water in / out during a flood; elevate susceptible materials / equipment (electrical, drywall, etc.) above FEMA minimum distance above flood EL; no carpet, etc. This is common for small buildings / sheds on the eastern part of the state.

An FYI for any home buyer - if there is a stream / creek / any other water near or on property you are considering purchasing, always look at the FEMA FIRMs your self (online: https://msc.fema.gov/portal/search). Unless you like increased flood risk and flood insurance, avoid properties within Zone A / AE (100-yr floodplain (1% annual chance flood)). Personally, I would avoid the 500-yr (0.2% annual chance) floodplain as well (Zone X - though Zone X is used for different floodplains too), because trends are for floodplains to increase in EL / extent, so the 500-yr will provide you some breathing room in case the maps are [old] and potentially inaccurate. I would also ask the current owners, neighbors, etc. about the history of flooding in the area.

[Edited on August 23, 2017 at 7:38 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2017 7:32:42 AM

Flirting with danger. My house circled in red.

https://goo.gl/photos/RHJgvvQ6ujpTzd5u8


[Edited on August 29, 2017 at 4:05 PM. Reason : image link]

8/29/2017 4:02:27 PM

you good

8/31/2017 1:25:50 PM

still trying determining the best plan of action

9/4/2017 10:43:12 AM

Too late. Pack your shit and leave now.

9/5/2017 7:42:06 AM

Quote :

"still trying determining the best plan of action "

Seller isn't legally required to disclose anything. They can pretty much choose "No Representation" for anything and everything on the Property Disclosure even if they know that it is in a flood zone. Seller's agent should have found this out and disclosed it as well as whichever agent represented you as a buyer. If neither discovered and disclosed, it would be a case of negligent omission where they didn't know but they should have known. North Carolina is also a "Caveat Emptor" or "Buyer Beware" state legally so all the liability of buying basically falls on the buyer to make sure they know what they are getting in to.

Have you spoken at all with the agent who represented you when you purchased the home? Check with them to see why they didn't discover this during your transaction. Also, what recourse/resolution exactly looking for in this situation?




[Edited on September 7, 2017 at 9:22 PM. Reason : ...]

9/7/2017 9:19:13 PM

Quote :

" Seller isn't legally required to disclose anything. They can pretty much choose "No Representation" for anything and everything on the Property Disclosure even if they know that it is in a flood zone. "

I understand they could have chosen no representation , but fact is they didn't. They checked that the home/property is not in a flood zone. I don't understand how they couldn't have known and I certainly wouldn't have paid what i paid considering there was no shortage of comparatively priced properties at the time of purchase .My realtor wasn't exactly the best, so I've been trying to avoid going through her. Once i get an elevation certificate and finish my refi Ill be looking for a real estate attorney. thanks guys

[Edited on September 8, 2017 at 10:57 PM. Reason : .]

9/8/2017 10:54:28 PM

I know in one area of NC. Areas were "Flood" zones up until there was a need for real estate development.

Then suddenly "flood zone" became not flood zone allowing more houses to be built. Of course later on, it turns back into flood zone.

9/9/2017 12:10:42 AM

Quote :

" I know in one area of NC. Areas were "Flood" zones up until there was a need for real estate development."

That's interesting because you're the 3rd person to say that. Good ole capitalism

[Edited on September 10, 2017 at 12:36 PM. Reason : .]

9/10/2017 12:36:00 PM