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1/17/2007 10:35:04 AM

Quote :

"If you demand lots of money you should produce from day one."

See, this is where I disagree. I could give a rats ass how much money a guy makes. A contract is based on many things, one major one being marketability and effect on the organization from a non-performance standpoint. A recent example to me of a great signing/contract without the results is the Mets signing Pedro Martinez for $14M per over 4 years. Pedro has won exactly 24 games over 2 years, not exactly superstar win totals. It was the best signing the Mets made in the last decade. He immediately showed baseball that the Mets were relevant again, got the fanbase rejuvenated (sp?), and opened the pipeline to the Mets acquiring other superstars (Beltran, Delgado, etc).

Now Bush obviously didn't have the same effect from a free agent standpoint but it's hard to argue he didn't give the fans in New Orleans something to be happy about when they got him...

And I still think Sleik is projecting what other people think (maybe other Saints fans???) on to the people on TWW that think Bush will be a star still and had a productive, yet not great first season. Yes, there were people (maybe even on here?) that were proclaiming to be the next Barry Sanders in year one and they were probably being dicks about it, but that is NOT everyone.

All I'm saying is that he had a productive rookie season and showed progression. What part of the season did Bush's better games come in? Obviously at the end of the year, which is what you want to see going forward...

---------------

Oh and I didn't respond to the rest of wolfpack1100's post because it's insane to try and compare a RB/WR and a DL..

[Edited on January 17, 2007 at 12:09 PM. Reason : x]

1/17/2007 12:06:30 PM

I agree that he had a pretty productive rookie season. Had bad games and good games. With the holes we had elsewhere, I couldn't see taking him at #2. Everything worked out okay for us, we're one win away from Miami, and he helped out in mroe ways than just on the field. Most of my anger comes from

- people projecting him to be OMFGREATNESSOCITY from day 0
- upon him not being that, turning to "he's just a rookie"
- still thinking he was great, without really being that good very often, but still "just a rookie"

It's like make up your mind. Either you think the guy is gonna be great or you're willing to let him take his rookie lumps. When Ricky Williams went 10 games before scoring his first pro TD, NOBODY showed him any mercy. New Orleans sports media were calling for Wilmont fucking Perry.

1/17/2007 7:53:20 PM

^ saints didn't trade their entire draft for reggie bush though. the cost for williams was much much higher, which along with wearing a wedding dress, probably led to a shorter leash by the media.

i hear what you're saying, though, he has not yet shown that he's the next gale sayers. but he did show improvement (his ypc average after the tampa bay game was over a yard higher than before that game), and he gave the offense another weapon. john clayton mentioned it the other day (i think it was clayton), that having bush has allowed deuce to stay fresh this late into the season, as he wasn't shouldering the entire rushing load. while not a good reason for paying bush mega bucks, it is a useful result. hopefully they'll both be ready to run over the bears sunday!!!

1/18/2007 10:01:19 AM

NYM410, I didn't compare a RB/WR to a DE. I was comparring the impact that they had on there team. The arugement is that Reggie bush is being used as a decoy so he is worth the money. I argue and any one that watches football knows that if your Linebacker has a great year it there should be great credit given to the Defensive line. If the DL doesn't require double teams and attention from the Offensive line then the O-line can block the linebackers at the next level. If you praise Reggie bush for being a decoy you have to praise Mario Williams for commanding double teams and keeping them he had 4.5 sacks which was the second best for the team. Just like Reggie bush was second in reciving to Colston and running to Deuce.

[Edited on January 18, 2007 at 10:43 AM. Reason : nuub]

1/18/2007 10:42:59 AM

Fair enough. I don't think I praised him for being a decoy. In fact I don't think I really praised him much at all. I did say he had a relatively productive rookie year and I think he will be a star, but he was what he was this year -- an inconsistent rookie who showed enough progression for me to think he will continue to develop and eventually turn into one of the tougher offensive players to defend.

I didn't see enough Texans games to really get a good idea of Mario's impact so I'm not going to try and make any judgments on him. I do know he had an injured foot for a large part of the season though (just as Bush had an ankle problem for a few weeks) so it's tough to read much from his season..

[Edited on January 18, 2007 at 11:50 AM. Reason : x]

1/18/2007 11:49:21 AM

^^^ we signed Michael Bennett to spell Deuce, remember?

1/18/2007 3:10:04 PM

bennett is like fred mcafee 2.0, a poor man's dalton hilliard.

[Edited on January 19, 2007 at 2:27 AM. Reason : reuben mayes maybe]

1/19/2007 2:26:26 AM

god damn

1/21/2007 4:56:48 PM

just trashed every member of the chi secondary

1/21/2007 4:57:27 PM

Okay, that was nice.

1/21/2007 4:57:28 PM

Reggie bush is the only person allowed to dive into the endzone with nobody around him.

1/21/2007 4:58:49 PM

...dude, this is an NFL game.

1/21/2007 4:59:28 PM

he is super duper fast, but that was completly due to bad defense :x

1/21/2007 4:59:34 PM

Once again, Bush for slot reciever.

1/21/2007 5:00:12 PM

still, most guys would have still been tackled there

1/21/2007 5:00:25 PM

OMFGNOWHEISARUNNINGBACK

1/21/2007 5:01:13 PM

it wasnt horrible defense

his double juke move between the db and safety was sick and then his speed worked

mad props to reggie on that play...he gets another play or two like that he might equal what steve smith did to them a year ago

1/21/2007 5:02:12 PM

he gets paid millions of dollars to make that tackle. regardless of how "sick" the move was, missing him in the open field was bad defense.

1/21/2007 5:06:10 PM

yeah i think Reggie Bush has officially put this thread to death.

I didnt think he'd do much today (and he hasnt besides that one play)


But when guys start breaking NFC Championship records in their rookie year... I think its okay to give the "Bush is all hype" garbage a rest

1/21/2007 5:12:54 PM

^Troll post maybe?

All his recs are recieving records!!! Thought I'd add that tid bit. None are Rb rec

1/21/2007 5:18:58 PM

rally you think bush will have another play of more than 10 yards this game? cause that one play was sick...but it was also one play

1/21/2007 5:48:38 PM

aha, he's fast, but not fast enough!

Quote :

"All his recs are recieving records!!!"

[Edited on January 21, 2007 at 6:28 PM. Reason : wr != rb]

1/21/2007 6:27:42 PM

Quote :

"All his recs are recieving records!!! Thought I'd add that tid bit. None are Rb rec"

Why does it matter?

Do you mock Hines Ward for being a receiever too?

1/21/2007 6:28:39 PM

^No but do you say Hines Ward is a RB?

1/21/2007 6:29:39 PM

he played some tailback and QB in college

I fail to see why it matters at all how reggie bush is effective.

1/21/2007 6:31:23 PM

That's why I said Bush should be a WR.

The point of this thread was to talk about why Bush wasn't a pro RB so them pointing out that he gets all his stats recieving is aimed at backing why he isn't a pro RB.

1/21/2007 6:33:19 PM

It's some sort of moral victory to people that want him to fail that he kills it receiving catches instead of running up the middle, downhill, and smashing into LBs.

He's going to be so damn sick with experience... Most State fans seem to think if he fails it will make Mario look good. Frankly, I could care less what people think of Bush vs. Mario so I don't try to justify his pick.. his own play will over time.

^ yeah, but this thread veered away from that on like page 2. The last 8 pages have been people crying that he is overhyped, overrated, or had a completely shitty season..

[Edited on January 21, 2007 at 6:34 PM. Reason : x]

1/21/2007 6:33:53 PM

it's not rocket science

1/21/2007 6:34:34 PM

I just can't see how you can be a RB and have more recieving yards than rushing yards on the season and play as much as he does?

Bush has had a good first season, but if he was in Houston he would be a huge bust. He got very lucky to get on a great team and put in a great situation with Deuce.

[Edited on January 21, 2007 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .]

1/21/2007 6:37:55 PM

this was about like his play versus Texas last year...one great play

1/21/2007 6:38:29 PM

he didn't fumble the game away tho ... so that's a positive

1/21/2007 6:39:04 PM

true

and who wouldve thought grossman would look better than brees

1/21/2007 6:43:55 PM

bush is a clown

im almost upset they didnt win, because thats one less opportunity for him to have a career ending injury

well, we can always pull for a fatal car crash

1/21/2007 8:02:00 PM

Quote :

"Why does it matter? Do you mock Hines Ward for being a receiever too? "

Hahaha this IDIOT totally missed my point

I expected him to miss it like all the bush zombies do!

1/21/2007 9:04:40 PM

He's a good receiver with RB vision, but that's about it. He can't run between the tackles very well.

Saints could've gotten Steve Smith at a cheaper price, and get the same thing.

That said, I know he'll improve and maybe he can be a true dual threat like Marshall Faulk back in his heyday. But right now, he's no running back.

1/22/2007 12:17:29 PM

Quote :

"Saints could've gotten Steve Smith at a cheaper price, and get the same thing."

the same thing? what?

1/22/2007 12:19:16 PM

^^ He ment a quality WR which is what Reggie bush is. not even that great of one they just have him run out of the back field and he is the dump pass.

1/22/2007 12:20:53 PM

^
Yeah, basically what he said.

Smith could catch the bubble screens and go downfield. He could also run a few reverses in each game. You could even line him up in the backfield and do direct snaps to him. I'm sure he could even run up the middle for 2-3 yards.

I'm sure Smith would have better hands though.

1/22/2007 12:37:14 PM

Its simple.

Reggie Bush was the most hyped player coming out of college in decades (cept for the 'Boz)
Said Hype landed him a huge multi-year Nike contract right after college + legal immunity (USC boosters & house scandal)
Nike doesent like to spend $$ on players that dont get tons of pub no matter how bad they play(i.e., Penny Hardaway)
Nike + NFL + crying New Orleansians + Al Sharpden fuel said hype
Reggie Bush sells tickets & gets plenty of PT for years to come

He was made in so many ways before his first NFL snap and nothing will change that unless he goes out like Rae Carruth!

1/22/2007 2:54:32 PM

You guys are all fucking idiots. Bush rattled off an 88 yard record setting TD yesterday like it was no thing against one of the best defenses in the league!

If you think Bush sucks, you are fucking wrong.

If you think he's average, you are fucking wrong.

Admit that he had a fine rookie season.

This WR stuff is nonsense. He is catching passes by lining up in the RB position. Larry Centers used to catch 100 passes and go to the Pro Bowl for it. Guess what?! He didnt go as a WR.

And I can not even believe you are comparing him to Steve Smith and attempting to make that a bad thing.

Gee, lets take the guy that many consider to be the most explosive offensive player in the league and say Bush is similar to him and then act like thats a bad thing.


Shut the fuck up about this "hype". He was hyped because he's one of the most electrifying college players of all time. He's being hyped because he just had a good rookie season.

Stop being such a fucking hater. Here is a good article that sums up how bitter all you sports "fans" are. I call you sports "fans" because you spend more time hating on the elite players than you do enjoying them. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070119


I'm going to start hating all my favorite movies, breakfast cereals, and vacation destinations just to be cool!!!

Anchorman isn't funny because a lot of sorority girls like it!!
Honey nut cheerios would be nothing without milk!!
The Bahamas don't even have skiing and beer is more expensive than it is in the US!!!

Stop hating on everyone that is good it IS GETTING FUCKING OLD YOU BITTER FUCKS

[Edited on January 22, 2007 at 3:10 PM. Reason : a]

1/22/2007 3:09:27 PM

ps,

no one gives a fuck outside N.O.

1/22/2007 3:12:05 PM

^^ haha.

Looks like somebody couldnt wait to run out and buy that new reggie bush jersey after his TD last night.

1/22/2007 3:13:36 PM

Wow, are people really that bitter on here about Bush being good and Williams having a bust year?

1/22/2007 3:16:01 PM

Quote :

"And I get the part where the outside world is ready for another team, because that's the way our society works now: We embrace something new, digest it, beat it into the ground and move on to something else. One minute, "Borat" is the greatest comedy of all-time; the next minute, it's overrated. One minute, everyone loves "Lost"; the next minute, we're wondering if it jumped the shark. One minute, everyone loves The Killers; the next minute, they're self-important sellouts. It's the Everything Sucks Era. We spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about everyone else. Nobody's good, nobody's worthwhile and everybody needs to go away. That's the prevailing theme."

1/22/2007 3:19:09 PM

^^^^^ P.S. Bold doesn't make your post any more substantial.

Some have said he would be a quality WR, not a crappy one. We're giving him credit for being able to catch and run. Hell, I'd list him as a top 10 WR (definitely not a top 10 back). We're not giving him credit for being able to take a handoff and run.

If he had taken the ball on a handoff, went through the d-line, juked Urlacher out of his shoes, and then scampered 88 yards past the secondary, you'd probably hear most of the "haterz" shut up.

He's a playmaker. He had a pretty good season, but was disappointing between the tackles.

[Edited on January 22, 2007 at 3:19 PM. Reason : carrot]

1/22/2007 3:19:22 PM

Here's what the thread starter said:

Quote :

"ofcourse people respect his speed around the outsides b/c thats all he can do. He's not a pure Rb, wasnt then, isnt now. He is a helluva player/athlete with wicked speed. Thats all. He will not be a Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders at all in the NFL."

Not "Bush sucks", or any of the other bullshit you keep posting. Learn to read Rally.

1/22/2007 3:21:49 PM

You guys are getting really fucking repetitive and stupid. He lines up at the RB position. He makes plays from the RB position.

Sometimes LB's line up as down linemen. Sometimes Safeties play close to the line of scrimmage.

Was Kevin Greene a DE instead of an LB? Was Ronnie Lott a LB instead of a SS?

Shut the fuck up you goddam idiots.

He is lining up at RB.

It takes a different skill set to line up at RB than WR. Why would they line him up at WR when he is CLEARLY more effective at RB?

WR are designed to stretch the field by touching the ball a few times a game. RB's are playmakers who yuo want to get the ball to more frequently.

Bush lines up at RB because he's a very good RB. Could he also play WR? Probably, but he is tremendously effective at RB so he will continue to play RB.

You guys have been pwnt by the sensational Reggie Bush and you just cant get over it. Let it go

[Edited on January 22, 2007 at 3:31 PM. Reason : a]

1/22/2007 3:31:19 PM

^^ This thread denigrated to hating on Bush like 8 pages ago. Get with the program.

And I agree with Rally. People hate on Brady, they hate on Bush, they hate on pretty much everyone who is good in evey sport. Why? I don't know but Simmons got it right (I didnt' check but I'm assuming that the Patriots compared to Yankees article???)

[Edited on January 22, 2007 at 3:33 PM. Reason : carat]

1/22/2007 3:32:46 PM

And if Hines Ward lined up as a RB, and occasionally broke a nice run (but usually got stuffed after 1.5 yards), and got most of his yards catching passes, would that make him a great RB?

1/22/2007 3:36:17 PM