10

coincidentally the number of people who still think Kobe should be MVP after tonight

4/25/2007 2:47:20 AM

Shaq just effectively used his size to his advantage

plus he used to be somewhat agile

it makes sense cause there is NO answer for him, you can not stop him if he is motivated

he is the trump card

4/25/2007 2:58:44 AM

If Yao played with KG's aggression he could be the most unstoppable player in NBA history

he should be able to get 12 rebounds and 3 blocks a night by just standing there

4/25/2007 3:13:37 AM

no doubt

and he is getting better

but he doesn't have shaq's girth

4/25/2007 3:38:41 AM

I do think yao could step it up a bit. But he is so slow, sometimes he's hustling and I just don't realize it.

Shaq is/was a freak of nature. There's never been a guy with that kind of size who possessed such body control, coordination quickness and strength. He isn't one of the five best players ever. He's not even close. But he is probably the 3rd or 4th best center to ever play.

4/25/2007 4:32:21 AM

Yao weighs 300-305

Proportioned evenly out to 7 foot 6, most americans would weigh well over 400

Yao could gain another 30 pounds of muscle as easily as a 150 pound person could put on 15

When Shaq retires, and unless Oden gains 50 pounds, Yao will be not only the tallest but the most powerful player in the league

4/25/2007 4:57:26 AM

^and he still won't get 10 rebounds a game

4/25/2007 7:22:30 AM

so how come Jason Kidd never got an NBA MVP? Hell he led his team to back-to-back NBA Finals and is/was a threat to put up a triple double every single night...why didnt he get the MVP award ever? Probably because they were giving it to superstars like AI and Duncan and Garnett who deserved it more

Karl Malone has 2 MVP awards...why no love for Stockton?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

ps: Kidd in his prime is better than Nash right now

4/25/2007 10:37:35 AM

^ Great post

4/25/2007 10:46:50 AM

Stockton >> Nash

But that was back when there were such things as point guards, and a lot of teams had them. Nowadays, people are so happy to see Nash doing what he's doing in a league of "point guards" such as Marbury, Baron Davis, and Jason Williams, that they are happy to give the award to Nash, even though he hasn't been deserving of it the past 3 years.

4/25/2007 11:05:56 AM

Kidd in his prime was a better rebounder (hell, he still is a better rebounder) than Nash, but Kidd isn't nearly the shooter that Nash is.

Nash was pretty nasty last night: 24 minutes, 16 pts, 14 assists.

4/25/2007 11:06:11 AM

Quote :

"but Kidd isn't nearly the shooter that Nash is"

no but he always hit them in the clutch

honestly Kidd and Nash are probably the best point guards in the league since Payton was in his prime although Chauncy Billups might have something to say about that...unlike Kidd and Nash, Billups has rings

4/25/2007 11:39:32 AM

BY MID SEASON I WOULD HAVE AGREED WITH THE THREAD TITLE BUT THEIR LATE SEASON SLUMPING AND POOR SHOWING SO FAR ISN'T HELPING THERAPIST' CASE....GIVE IT TO NASH AGAIN

4/25/2007 12:07:27 PM

Kobe and Odom would start for the Suns over Bell and Diaw.


No one else on the Lakers could even make the Suns rotation.


Farmar, Vujacic, Walton, Bynum, Kwame, etc....


None of them would get 8 minutes a game.

4/25/2007 4:26:49 PM

^I don't agree with that Kwame and Bynum are both better than Kurt Thomas. I think Farmar would play minutes behind Nash, with Barbosa playing the two. OFcourse this is just our speculation. The suns play a very short bench, which is obviously rare for a run & Gun team.

The only thing that Kidd came very close to winning the MVP the year Duncan won it. I hope we can agree that Duncan in his prime is a much better mvp candidate than any of the candidates the this year or even he last two years. Kidd was amazing. Great defender, still always leads his team in rebounding, he can guard three positions, vision just a tad below Nash, but he couldn't and still can't shoot at all. Not even a little bit. He is sometimes Eric Snow bad. Still, he's one of the best point guards of all time. WHen Kidd took the Nets to the finals, the Nets had great team defense, that's how they got on the break. At the time, everyone though Kenyon Martin was really good.

4/25/2007 5:36:54 PM

time to dump the roster for the lakers

lakers need KG or Jermaine O'neal

I believe they will land one of those players this offseason, even if it means giving up bynum

4/25/2007 5:45:56 PM

oh god, not this again

4/25/2007 5:47:36 PM

they should definitely give up Bynum for the chance at KG. Not sure about JO though

4/25/2007 5:49:53 PM

get both. rookie pg kobe lamar kevin and jermaine

they really don't need another star. just a few solid legit nba starters to go along with kobe and odom and they'll be major contedners.

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 5:57 PM. Reason : jk]

4/25/2007 5:55:51 PM

and maybe Barkley will come out of retirement

4/25/2007 5:56:46 PM

Quote :

"At the time, everyone though Kenyon Martin was really good."

he was really good this year during the ~month that he played before getting injured

4/25/2007 6:11:03 PM

I didn't mean to imply he wasn't good. But he is getting max money because he played with Jason Kidd. wow imagine how good Denver could be if they added Martin to the mix. Who knows how'll be after two microfracture surgeries.....

4/25/2007 7:00:15 PM

Dude, I just can't take you seriously at all after these 2 posts:

Quote :

"Kobe is probably one of the five greatest players of all time"

Quote :

"[Shaq] isn't one of the five best players ever. He's not even close. "

It boggles my mind that you could actually believe this. Or maybe you're just trolling. I don't know. But thats a whole lot of crazy in 1 thread.

4/25/2007 7:05:18 PM

I agree that Kobe Bryant should be the MVP this year, last year, and every year.

Reasons:

1)He is one of the top defenders in the league. He can shutdown the other teams point guard, shooting guard, small forward, and sometimes even their power forward (ex: shawn marion)

2)Kobe has the best offensive arsenal of anyone in the NBA

3)Lets not forget how clutch Kobe is

People who hate Kobe just hate the fact that they suck at life and they cant stand seeing someone whose so good at their craft. Lets be real people, Kobe is the MVP. Quit yapping away on the wolf web, get a life, and recognize that Kobe is the MVP.

4/25/2007 7:14:57 PM

n00bwad, you need to understand that Kobe IS the MOP (Most Outstanding Player), but he is not the MVP. I swear, with any other PG in the league, the Suns would be no higher than a 6 seed.

You put another quality SG on the Lakers, and they are actually the same (In my opinion. Flame away)

You see, by Kobe trying so hard to "be the man", he basically threw the concept of team cohesion out the window. Thats why the Lakers have sucked so bad in the playoffs PS (Post Shaq).

All of the quality teams that you play in the playoffs just scheme to stop Kobe, and none of his teamates are ready to take on the challenge, becasue they didnt get the chance during the regular season (which in the NBA more than any league, the regular season is really just a long practice/exhibition for the playoffs.)

The Lakers will be swept, Kobe is MOP of the Regular season, Nash has better stats this season than his past 2 MVP seasons, but wont win because of the remarkable season that Mavs have had....Dirk wins the MVP (unless the Mavs somehow lose to the Warriors).

4/25/2007 7:24:35 PM

omg i stand corrected, thanks for clearing that up panthro...sweet life

4/25/2007 7:35:34 PM

^^ you think putting any other SG in the league on the lakers and they will be the same?????

please quit posting and watch the games before you post again

4/25/2007 8:21:40 PM

This thread should be locked.

TMac deserves the damn MVP over Kobe and he gets no talk at all about him.

He led a team that is nothing but him and Yao to a #5 seed in the strong west.

Quote :

"Dirk wins the MVP (unless the Mavs somehow lose to the Warriors)."

This is just further proof that most of you have no clue. The MVP is based on REGULAR SEASON.

[Edited on April 25, 2007 at 8:24 PM. Reason : idiots]

4/25/2007 8:23:18 PM

T-Mac would win the MVP if it stood for Most Vulnerable to Pulling another back injury

I would take Alston, Head and Battier over any three of Kobe's teammates

And yall act like Kobe hasnt been shit since Shaq left...how about when the combo of Shaq and Kobe couldnt win a title during Shaq's last 2 years as a Laker? Where was the Big Aristotle then?

PS: I sided with Shaq in the whole Kobe/Shaq thing...but you guys are acting like somebody who has scored 81 points in a single game is just some slightly better than average wing player...BUT IT WAS AGAINST TORONTO....bullshit, how come nobody else has put up 60 on Toronto?

4/25/2007 8:48:09 PM

^^nothing but him and yao? that's a pretty damn sold 1-2 punch. Certainly better than the Lakers and Warriors have.

4/25/2007 8:48:52 PM

Quote :

"how come nobody else has put up 60 on Toronto?"

because no one else in the NBA is the self promoter that Kobe is.

He is A HELL OF A player, no doubt about it, but to say his team wouldnt be better if he shot less is ridiculous.

His team has no confidence right now, and Kobe has no trust in them.

They are destined to fail.

4/25/2007 9:20:39 PM

reminds me of the bulls in the late 80s...destined to fail

4/25/2007 9:34:13 PM

Prawn, Shaq isn't one of the five best players ever. That is a fact. Bill Russell, Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic are all better than Shaq. Mikan, Hakeen, Malone and Duncan are all as good if not better....but Shaq is one of the five best centers.

I concede Kobe might not be in the top ten of all time, i was projecting his play over the rest of his career. I assumed since he was still relatively young and in his prime, that he may even get a little better of at least sustain this level of play and win another title. How do those two statements (especially the first one) sound crazy

4/25/2007 10:11:57 PM

shaq isn't one of the 5 est

but he is one of the 5 most dominant

4/26/2007 2:12:34 AM

thats kinda easy when you are 7'1" and 400 pounds

4/26/2007 2:34:49 AM

^^^

Quote :

"Prawn, Shaq isn't one of the five best players ever. That is a fact."

montclair, are you really Earl?


Shaq compares favorably with Chamberlain and Russell, only against tougher competition.

4/26/2007 10:46:10 AM

Wilt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all other centers

^who was Shaq's tougher competition? Olajuwon when Akeem pwnt the shit out of him?

Wilt and Russell's competition was each other...and they regularly averaged 35ppg and 25rpg...what "tougher competition" has Shaq faced? Theo Ratliff?

4/26/2007 10:49:44 AM

^appreciate that

I fully agree that the players of today are generally better. The competition may be a bit tougher, but Will and Russell completely dominated. Treetwista, he's going with the assumption that playes are larger, faster, more athletic, coached better (due to technological advancements) and better trained because of specialized coaches. I agree with this.
Kareem's success is documented and Hakeem won two titles without Kobe or Penny, (Sam Cassell is good....but Kobe is great). But if Shaq isn't even one of the two best Centers ever, how would he be one of the five best players ever? that's just ignorant. Here's a list of players who are better since you missed it the first time.

Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, Larry, Magic, Michael, Malone.....and I'm thinking Duncan is better, especially if he wins anymore titles

[Edited on April 26, 2007 at 3:08 PM. Reason : .]

4/26/2007 3:03:47 PM

Quit getting off topic. Kobe Bryant is the Best Basketball Player in the NBA. So start a new thread if you wanna talk about Bill Russell, Shaq, or other chumps who Kobe could easily posterize.

By the way, heard this on ESPN. When kobe was 6 years old, he scored 65 points in a game against 12 year olds. Yeah...think about it

4/26/2007 3:23:00 PM

and yes Kobe IS one of the top five best players of all time.

4/26/2007 3:33:20 PM

^^dude Kobe is a fucking beast, but I don't know if he could consistently "easily posterize" Bill Russell and Shaq...he'd probably have to do some Jordan shit where he switches hands in mid-air...except when Jordan did that in the 91?93? Finals against the Lakers it was completely unneccesary, just for show

4/26/2007 3:37:24 PM

he should pass more so his TEAM can win a playoff series


WITHOUT shaq

4/26/2007 3:39:23 PM

^dude, his selfishness has nothing to do with them losing to the Suns. The only reason they had a chance last year is because Marion was guarding Kwame Brown (who was playing much better) His teammates are getting just as many touches, they just aren't doing shit with them.

4/26/2007 4:06:49 PM

when he gets triple and quadruple teamed he should pass but he's not exactly passing to star players...he is going to need for people like walton and smush to knock down their shots

4/26/2007 4:17:16 PM

Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum, and Kwame Brown are not bad players and could play for any legit playoff team. Phil or Kobe needs to get them to be more of a threat by passing to them and getting them in the offense.

Back to the subject, Kobe may be the most talented scorer in the league, but is not the most VALUABLE to his team. (See Nash)

4/26/2007 5:08:10 PM

Kobe Bryant is the MVP - think about it, if you were playing two on two who would you rather have as your teammate. Exactly.

4/26/2007 5:22:13 PM

Kobe is not only the most talented SCORER in the league, but he is probably one of the top five DEFENDERS in the league.

Steve Nash should not even be in the MVP discussion until he becomes a shutdown defender like Kobe. Last time I checked there are two sides of basketball - offense and defense.

You people make me sick - corny ass Kobe haters

4/26/2007 5:23:44 PM

Since when does the NBA MVP have anything to do with who you would want on your "Street ball, two-on-two team". Its about a 5 man game. Nash will contribute 20 points to his team by scoring and another 20-25 by giving out 10 assists a game. Nash can't defend as good as Kobe, but Kobe sure as hell can't see the court like Nash.

Corny ass Nash haters (or maybe its the white guy getting the MVP 2 years in a row)

4/26/2007 5:27:29 PM

nash has much better players on his team.

if kobe had a big man like stoudemire he would win a title...oh wait he did with shaq in 2000 2001 and 2002

kwame brown is a fucking joke and anyone who has watched the playoffs knows that.

4/26/2007 5:30:08 PM

Shaq won with Kobe on his team

4/26/2007 5:31:31 PM