Well I don't want a PS3 because I don't want to have to deal with bluetooth. Plus I'm not even remotely interested in another console. So having to put up with having 2 remotes is not worth it IMO

11/8/2007 12:58:40 PM

Quote :

"Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has revealed that the Blu-ray release of 'Spider-Man 3' sold 130,000 copies the first six days at retail, 15,000 more copies than the Transformers HD DVD was reported to have sold its first week on store shelves. The 130,000 sold does not include copies given away as part of a Sony promotion to provide the title to those who purchase a 40GB PS3. http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Sony/Disc_Sales/Disc_Sales:_Spider-Man_3_Spins_Record_First_Week_for_Sony/1155"

To be fair, the 115k Transformers HD DVD copies sold is according to an index approximation by Nielsen VideoScan. Paramount reported 190k a few days prior, however Sony's number should more closely reflect Nielsen, since Nielsen doesn't count bundle deals with hardware. In comparison, Casino Royale sold 100k in its first week (and of these three, I consider the latter to be the only one worth watching a second time).

11/8/2007 3:45:57 PM

who cares really?

i mean standard DVD's range in the millions per week, and opening day. this small scale stuff is going to fluctuate from week to week until it's accepted by the masses.

to argue about a couple ten's of thousands, it really doesn't show much.

we won't know for a good amount of time who's going to win the standalone, in every house, hd dvd player war

11/8/2007 3:49:56 PM

Quote :

"we won't know for a good amount of time who's going to win the standalone, in every house, hdm player war"

i agree. the best we can do right now is watch trends.

11/8/2007 3:57:45 PM

but the scale is so small, one move (like the $100 hd dvd player) could change everything... who know's what blu-ray's gonna do, it's all speculation at this point

11/8/2007 4:00:41 PM

i bet neither will... thats my guess, it will go to online services like netflix instant view etc before the war ends.

11/8/2007 4:30:43 PM

Yes, I agree, it is too early to call. If we could call it, then we wouldn't need this thread. People want to know which direction it's heading; especially those who are dissatisfied with low-def DVD upscalers, but aren't sure about whether they should buy a Blu-ray player or an HD DVD player. People want to know if the hardware they buy today will play movies they buy and rent in the next few years.

We have two impartial sources that can help us indicate how well one format is selling in relation to the other. These are weekly Nielsen VideoScan indexes as reported by Home Media Magazine (every Friday), and Amazon.com's DVD sales rankings. The Nielsen numbers let us know exactly how many copies of a movie are selling, while the Amazon rankings let us know how well HD media is selling in relation to DVD, as well as how Blu-ray is selling in relation to HD DVD, however they only give us rankings.

^Eeeh, probably in 10-20 years. The current generation still enjoys having something to put on their shelf when they buy a movie... The shelf of movies is a big part of our culture right now. Look at the music industry; it wasn't until the iPod that MP3s really went mainstream, and even though we have the iTMS, the CD industry is still pretty big.

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 4:51 PM. Reason : ^]

11/8/2007 4:42:09 PM

Seriously, HD media is here, it works and it looks/sounds fucking marvelous. If you can afford it, there is no reason to wait for one to win or the war to be over. HD DVD or Blu-ray, it doesn't matter. Get which ever has the most movies that interest you and enjoy it. If your worried about the discs you buy becoming expensive plastic coasters some time in the future, then just rent. HD DVD players are cheap enough where you won't kill yourself if they go obsolete in a few years and Blu-ray has enough firm studio support from Sony/Fox/Disney that you'll definitely be getting movies for it for years to come. The ultimate no risk solution would be a PS3 or a 360 + HD DVD drive, because either way your getting a sweet ass game console + media center that you can enjoy for at least the next 5 years.

11/8/2007 5:00:06 PM

IT ONLY COSTS A HUNDRED BUCKS

JUST BUY IT

YOURE MORE OF AN IDIOT TO PAY MONTHLY FOR HD TIME WARNER SERVICE

11/8/2007 6:24:56 PM

the upgrade to hd is free.

11/8/2007 6:41:15 PM

when's the war gonna be over, again?

11/8/2007 7:03:27 PM

not for the next 18 months at least.

11/8/2007 7:49:26 PM

while we have sales statistics, we have no demographic, no idea who is buying them and how many of those people have consoles and just buy HD movies as a secondary bonus to the video game console, sales alone right now are not going to judge the entire population, since a majority of the buyer's are console owners and not standalone owners

while you can make assumptions, it's really not a good indicator

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 10:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2007 10:35:06 PM

Hmmm, so what's next for Toshiba? Buy one A2, get one free? I honestly expected all the recent price drops and media hype for HD DVD to get us a little closer to parity between sales of the two formats, but instead Blu-ray pulled way way ahead last week.

Also, a cool blurb from the review of Ratatouille from HighDefDigest.

Quote :

"I've reviewed over 500 next-gen discs over the last year and a half, and not one has received a perfect five star rating overall, but there's a first time for everything and I'm happy to report that 'Ratatouille' is it. This is a must-own disc that no Blu-ray collection should be without."

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1048/ratatouille.html

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 1:03 PM. Reason : :]

11/9/2007 1:02:41 PM

Its been a week. What Toshiba did was a smart move because now they got more players in more homes. That opens the door to more HD DVD's in more homes and not just a bunch of PS3 owners with 100 blu-ray movies each. This isn't a week long process either. People that buy cheaper players aren't the same people who will buy 100 movies in one week. Give it time and you will start seeing the market share of HD DVD movies expand. People that bought PS3's at full price can and have bought many blu ray movies for their collections. Because they have the money to burn on stuff like that and obviously they care enough too or they wouldn't have bought a PS3.

This war has nothing to do with PS3 vs HD DVD. Its strictly Blu ray Players vs HD DVD players. Because consoles will never be the deciding factor in this.

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 1:30 PM. Reason : ...]

11/9/2007 1:28:20 PM

I think that post just proved you have no idea what you're talking about and should really cease to participate in this discussion. PS3 owners are not buying many movies. In fact, I think a poll was done where only ~15% of PS3 owners said they have purchased a Blu-ray for it. Blu-ray owners buy more movies because there are more movies to buy. Simple as that.

Before last weeks price cuts, sales of stand-alone Blu-ray and HD DVD players were actually very close, within 10%. Blu-ray has managed to take and maintain a substantial lead by selling expensive players and movies at full price, while HD DVD has barely managed to keep up by slashing player prices and giving away movies. Which one of those two business models do you think is more attractive to the content providers who will ultimately decide the outcome of this war?

11/9/2007 1:45:19 PM

clearly you shouldn't participate because you don't understand what you are talking about. It has been 1 week since price cuts. You do the math. People who buy expensive players (blu ray) can afford to spend $texas on a blu ray collection.

People who wait for serious price drops usually don't have $texas to spend on a massive movie collection. Hence why now that more houses have hd dvd players, those same people will slowly start contributing to the market share.

11/9/2007 1:51:29 PM

Quote :

"This war has nothing to do with PS3 vs HD DVD. Its strictly Blu ray Players vs HD DVD players. Because consoles will never be the deciding factor in this."

I think that's a pretty foolish statement. The PS3, a console, also happens to be the best-selling Blu-Ray player.

I, for one, was going to buy a PS3 pretty much regardless. I would NOT, however, have forked out for a Blu-Ray player. At least for a long while (read: til the software prices aren't absurd). But now, here I am. I own close to 30 titles on Blu-Ray which I never would've bought had it not been for the PS3.

And I assure you, I am not alone in this boat.

So yes, it is about consoles. If the PS3 weren't a Blu-Ray player, HD-DVD would be CRUSHING them.

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 2:12 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2007 2:11:55 PM

Quote :

"I think that's a pretty foolish statement. The PS3, a console, also happens to be the best-selling Blu-Ray player."

exactly my point. Once the console grubbing for this generation is all said and done. You will still have the masses without any kind of hi-def player because they don't consider consoles as a stand alone player. They are waiting for prices to drop and hi-def movies become more affordable. Nobody cares that a PS3 is the cheapest and best blu ray player because to them its still a PS3.

We aren't the deciding factor in this war at all. The deciding factor is the countless millions that buy DVD's (not HD/Blu ray). These people don't have either yet because its too expensive. Once we include them in this war then its all over for one side or another. And I can guarantee you that none of those people will buy an xbox360 HD DVD player or a PS3.

Quote :

"I, for one, was going to buy a PS3 pretty much regardless. I would NOT, however, have forked out for a Blu-Ray player. At least for a long while (read: til the software prices aren't absurd). But now, here I am. I own close to 30 titles on Blu-Ray which I never would've bought had it not been for the PS3."

and that more than proves my point yet again. Thanks!

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 2:23 PM. Reason : e]

11/9/2007 2:18:27 PM

but the 'war' is being 'fought' right now. Studios are deciding which side to back, retailers deciding which to give the shelf space. By the time the unwashed masses buy in to the concept of HD movies, there will be a standard format.

So, no.. I disagree. We ARE the ones that are going to decide the outcome.

And the PS3 Trojan Horse, whether you love or hate Sony, was a brilliant move.


[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 2:26 PM. Reason : d]

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 2:26 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2007 2:24:46 PM

incorrect again...the executives in those studios aren't as dumb or short sighted as you.

11/9/2007 2:28:13 PM

"oh shit he made a good point... I know, I'll just insult him!!111!"

I'm sorry, I thought you were interested in having a discussion. Forgot I was in Tech Talk, I suppose.


dumb and shortsighted? I'm not the one that signed the Universal and Paramount agreements, you know? I'm also not the person that's deciding that Warner will go Blu-Ray exclusive next year. I've got nothing to do with that, that's the "smart" executives making those decisions. You think it's cost effective for them to have to put out multiples formats for a single title?

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 2:52 PM. Reason : dp]

11/9/2007 2:51:10 PM

DP

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 2:52 PM. Reason : d]

11/9/2007 2:52:25 PM

Quote :

"I'm sorry, I thought you were interested in having a discussion. Forgot I was in Tech Talk, I suppose."

Apparently that's what tech talk is all about now. And when you complain about it in the proper place they call you a baby and say you got owned.

11/9/2007 2:59:07 PM

Percentages are nice, but where are the actual numbers? It makes sense that more Blu-ray discs would sell on a week where everyone was trying to stockpile free HD DVDs.

11/9/2007 3:15:31 PM

FanatiK

you did not make a good point or even a valid one. I'm sorry but consoles will never decide the fate of the whole home entertainment. Mom and Pop don't buy consoles, they buy players. Mom and pop are also the majority. Sorry you think the PS3 is the greatest thing since the wheel and it is the deciding factor for everything related to hi-def. It isn't. The xbox 360 isn't either. I can promise you that Mom and Pop will not have a PS3 as a blu ray player even if it cost $200. They will either wait until stand alones are affordable (which they are now with HD DVD) or they will stick to DVD's.

Quote :

"dumb and shortsighted? I'm not the one that signed the Universal and Paramount agreements, you know? I'm also not the person that's deciding that Warner will go Blu-Ray exclusive next year. I've got nothing to do with that, that's the "smart" executives making those decisions. You think it's cost effective for them to have to put out multiples formats for a single title?"

right now thats all due to "who gives the best head" ie lines their pockets with more money. They will be signing exclusive deals with which ever player is in more homes. Don't think for a minute (besides sony pictures) that whoever is on one side only will not change sides in a heart beat if they see a larger user base.

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 3:22 PM. Reason : ...]

11/9/2007 3:19:17 PM

HOLY CRAP

I was really not expecting a 71:29 week at all.

With all of the HD DVD players being sold, that's a lot of people playing catch-up on previously released titles. From the looks of it, when people buy an HDM player, they usually go out and buy Planet Earth; and Planet Earth on HD DVD had a slight climb in the last week. When we see Nielsen's numbers for next week, we'll know the true impact of it. My money is on another 70-30 week though, seeing as Pixar films generally do very well, and those are only released on Blu-ray. We'll also be seeing Shrek soon, but not many people seem too excited about that.

Quote :

" Top 10 by SKU: 1. Spider-Man 3 100.00 2. Spider-man: The High Definition Trilogy 71.95 3. Transformers 31.42 4. Meet the Robinsons 8.82 5. 300 BD 6.56 6. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer 5.03 7. License to Wed BD 4.24 8. The Shining BD 4.11 9. Mr. Brooks 4.03 10. 2001: A Space Odyssey BD 3.88 xx. Face/Off 3.88 xx. 2001: A Space Odyssey HD 3.86 xx. 300 HD 3.82 xx. Heroes: Season 1 3.78 xx. The Shining HD 3.02 xx. License to Wed HD 2.71 Top 10 by Title: 1. Spider-Man 3 100.00 2. Spider-man: The High Definition Trilogy 71.95 3. Transformers 31.42 4. 300 10.38 5. Meet the Robinsons 8.82 6. 2001: A Space Odyssey 7.74 7. The Shining 7.13 8. License to Wed 6.95 9. Planet Earth: The Complete Series 6.67 10. A Clockwork Orange 5.43 xx. Mr. Brooks 4.03 xx. Face/Off 3.88 xx. Heroes: Season 1 3.78 Top 5 Blu-Ray: 1. Spider-Man 3 100.00 2. Spider-man: The High Definition Trilogy 71.95 3. Meet the Robinsons 8.82 4. 300 6.56 5. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer 5.03 Top 5 HD DVD: 1. Transformers 100.00 2. Face/Off 12.35 3. 2001: A Space Odyssey 12.30 3. 300 12.19 4. Heroes: Season 1 12.03 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=876174&page=219"

This makes me wonder... to all who bought Toshiba A2s, what movies are you watching?

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 3:21 PM. Reason : link]

11/9/2007 3:21:28 PM

^they're still waiting for their 5 free movies via mail in rebate.

11/9/2007 3:23:16 PM

NETFLIX

every hd-dvd seems to have a wait right now.

11/9/2007 3:25:09 PM

Quote :

"This makes me wonder... to all who bought Toshiba A2s, what movies are you watching?"

Depending on which player you bought, you could get up to 5 free HD DVDs in addition to the one's that were on your rebate. That's going to hurt sales, but not marketshare.

Granted, that doesn't affect the A2s much, but for the moment they're probably just renting or waiting on their 5 free ones.

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2007 3:29:05 PM

How does the 5 free movie things work? Do they work toward any future releases? Is it limited to 1 release per studio? Do you have to decide now, or can you wait?

11/9/2007 3:36:26 PM

^not 100% sure but I think its like any of the "free by mail" deals that we've seen in the past with any format. pick 5 from a limited selection and they mail them to you. Which of course that limited selection is from all the shitty movies no one wants.

11/9/2007 3:38:12 PM

Quote :

"How does the 5 free movie things work? Do they work toward any future releases? Is it limited to 1 release per studio? Do you have to decide now, or can you wait?"

Well, every A3 has Bourne Identity and 300 inside it (which is why the sales of both will be so poor for the next little bit) and then 3 free out of the store. Not entirely sure of the specifics on the latter part (such as "can they be backordered?", "do you have to get them right away?", etc.).

11/9/2007 3:40:42 PM

Quote :

"I can promise you that Mom and Pop will not have a PS3 as a blu ray player even if it cost $200."

You act like Mom and Pop are Grandma and Grandpa. I got news for ya, a lot of the current Moms and Pops grew up playing video games, so it's not like they're unfamiliar with game consoles. Also, you must've done a lot of market research to know that people aren't willing to shell out $200 for a PS3. You should get a job at Sony, maybe they wouldn't have botched the PS3 launch so bad if you were at the helm!

11/9/2007 3:53:44 PM

LOL...seriously dude. The millions of people out there that don't have PS3's aren't going to buy them because they want a blu ray player. Most don't even know WTF that is. You are mistaking yourself and the people you know as Mom and Pop.

The majority of the people I know don't even know WTF a PS3 is...or even blu ray. The only reason they know what HD DVD is, is because they've been over at my house to watch it. And even then they still don't fully understand what it is besides "oooh pretty picture!"

It all seems to simple for you to understand but most people (same people that take their computers to Geek Squad because they clicked on every "you won a free ipod nano!" pop-up) don't know shit about it.

I dont even know the point of this debate anymore. All we can do is wait and see one way or the other. We're all tech savvy and most of you have both players anyway. I will have blu ray soon anyway so it really doesn't matter. But it won't be a PS3. /end

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 4:16 PM. Reason : asdf]

11/9/2007 4:06:09 PM

The PS3 would be a more "Mom and Pop"-friendly DVD player if it (still?) came with a remote.

"Mom"'s not going to watch the third season of Desperate Housewives using a SIXAXIS.

11/9/2007 4:53:23 PM

Why the fuck does Golovko keep taking about the masses and mom and pop? The masses and mom and pop don't even own an HDTV yet, let alone a fucking HD movie player. They are all still buying DVDs and watching them on 27" standard def tubes. They are not even a factor in this war, and won't be for at least another year or two.

Frankly, I don't want to wait until the masses decide they care about HD for there to be a single format and tons more movies. I also don't want the inferior format to win just because it's cheaper now. I want the best technology to win. I want the format that has been chosen by more videophiles and movie buffs today to win. So far, that's Blu-ray.

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 5:27 PM. Reason : :]

11/9/2007 5:26:31 PM

Is a bluray player sub 400$ yet?

I really dont want to use a console as a dvd player ever again.

Quote :

""Mom"'s not going to watch the third season of Desperate Housewives using a SIXAXIS."

hahahaha


My dad has an xa2. i think he got an AARP discount.




[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 6:16 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2007 6:15:25 PM

Quote :

"Why the fuck does Golovko keep taking about the masses and mom and pop? The masses and mom and pop don't even own an HDTV yet, let alone a fucking HD movie player. They are all still buying DVDs and watching them on 27" standard def tubes. They are not even a factor in this war, and won't be for at least another year or two."

uh because they are buying HDTV's now... one step at a time, shrike. We don't care what you don't want to wait for.

11/9/2007 7:15:33 PM

^

Some great deals on Blu-ray movies online. A guy on neogaf was kind enough to list them out for us.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8548212&postcount=20112

11/9/2007 7:29:19 PM

$99 HD DVD player + 7x HD DVD movies free = $99
$400 Blu-ray player + 7x $13 Blu-ray movies = $491

11/9/2007 7:37:24 PM

^^

11/9/2007 7:56:39 PM

Sony CEO wants to go back in time, avert high-def format war
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071110-sony-ceo-wants-to-go-back-in-time-avert-high-def-format-war.html

Quote :

""It's a difficult fight," Stringer was quoted saying by the Associated Press, going so far as to describe the situation as a "stalemate." He candidly indicated that the war mostly came down to bragging rights over who was winning, and said that the two camps could have collaborated better in the past to develop one format. Stringer even said that he wished he could go back in time to make that possible—is that the smell of regret floating in the air?"

11/10/2007 11:08:04 PM

I see it a lot like a game of warcraft/starcraft, in regard to having good combat skills (superior product value) vs. economic victory (eliminating competitor's options). HD has the advantage of cheapness: if they can get their players under $100 in good time, then they will win, because it will be within the realm of affordability for the masses. But before that point comes along, if Blue Ray manages to score enough alliances with movie companies, they will squish HD out of the market and HD will lose because they will have an insignificant range of movies to offer. In the meantime, both Blue Ray and HD will gain some ground with gaming consoles. The consoles will make a difference not only because they provide playability for the formats, but because they will provide a more intimate form of advertisement.

So anyway, I see all those things as the forces involved in determining the winner. How much each thing affects the "contest" is hard to say. I think though if HD can get near to below $100 for the player within the next 3-4 months, they may take over rather quickly. Personally, I'd prefer HD to win since they're cheaper. I think it's disgusting that a more expensive yet equal quality product should win the market by means of political/slick exclusive agreements. I'm intrigued by the larger disk capacity of BlueRay over HD, but i'd prefer to buy into that on my own terms. Meaning, I'd prefer to buy that in an atmosphere of fair competition - excluding the other format by means exclusivity agreements, however legal, is unfair.

11/10/2007 11:38:45 PM

^^[/user]gs7[/user], Stringer's a pretty smart guy... usually Sony gets a lot of bad press for being arrogant, but he recognizes that the whole situation is pretty dismal until one format overtakes the other.

Quote :

"Frankly, I don't want to wait until the masses decide they care about HD for there to be a single format and tons more movies. I also don't want the inferior format to win just because it's cheaper now. I want the best technology to win. I want the format that has been chosen by more videophiles and movie buffs today to win. So far, that's Blu-ray."

QFT.

I would rather see either format win, than to live with low-def DVDs for another 6 months. Every single week of 2007 has had Blu-ray outsell HD DVD. If HD DVD can show good sales in Q4, I *MIGHT* consider getting a player, but until then I'll stick with my PS3 (which I have for games. I don't like console FPSs.)


...PS, I was playing around with my setup yesterday and tried playing movies in both 1080i and 1080p to see if I could tell the difference. It's VERY obvious on Ratatouille, with all of the hair on Remy. 1080p looks about 150% to 200% sharper than 1080i.

11/11/2007 2:36:12 AM

^

Ill give you the 100$ to get one just to not have to read your novels on the subject.

Got paypal?

11/11/2007 11:31:20 AM

circuit city has PS3 with wireless controller plus 5 (maybe 7, but im pretty sure 5) free blu rays.

for black friday

11/11/2007 1:50:03 PM

^$texas?

11/11/2007 2:30:18 PM

$399.99

http://bfads.net/PlayStation-3-40GB-w-Wireless-Controller-5-Bluray-movies-at-Circuit-City

11/11/2007 2:36:43 PM

didn't they already run this deal? how is that any special for black friday?

11/11/2007 2:38:41 PM