10

1/29/2008 7:39:52 PM

1/29/2008 7:39:54 PM

Quote :

"and fuck it, i'm not even driving home. i'm walking. or taking a treadmill."

ANYBODY WHO EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AND ARRIVED AT THE CONCLUSION THAT THE PLANE WOULDN'T TAKE OFF SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES

1/29/2008 7:50:24 PM

page 10 says it doesn't take off

1/29/2008 10:32:34 PM

page 10 is as stupid as the previous 9 pages

1/29/2008 10:46:15 PM

So someone please freaking explain the exact myth.

The way I see it is this.

Plane -> propeller producing throst to pull it foward in the air, this action pulls the plane at a velocity relative to the ground causing the air to flow at different speed over angled wings to create lift.

Treadmill (heres where I'm confused on the myth) - If mechanical treadmill powerful enough to move in exact negative velocity relative to the propellers propulsion -> plane just sits there as if I sit a plane engine on block and let a propeller spin like a damn fan.

Treadmill - If freestanding with realistic friction, plane will roll with treadmill for a bit, but due to power being produced by propeller and not wheels (like a car), it will relatively quickly overcome the treadmill, pick up speed down the runway and take off.

Theoretical ~Frictionless treadmill - plane again sits there.


Please inform me on where I'm wrong or what basic concept im leaving out.

1/29/2008 10:58:44 PM

Fucking Christ, let me post this AGAIN.

Quote :

"Ok, let me use this example again for those of you out there that still think the plane will not take off. You have a friend who is wearing roller skates. Think of him as being the plane. He is standing on one of those moving sidewalks(the treadmill) they have at the airport. It is not turned on yet. You are standing to the side on stationairy ground with your hand against your friends back. The moving sidewalk is turned on at this point to a speed of say 5mph. Your friend is remaining stationary because the small amount of force you are putting on his back is holding him in place. Imagine the force of your hand pushing on his back is the thrust of the engines. No matter how fast the treadmill goes, it required the same amount of force to hold him in place. Now say they crank up the treadmill to 180mph, the speed it takes most planes to take off, your hand against his back is still holding him right in place. At this point you begin to walk at a nice steady pace of 6 mph while pushing him along the moving sidewalk. If you don't think it will take off, then explain to me how the moving sidewalk can be going 180mph in one direction, while I am pushing my friend, with total ease, at only 6mph in the other direction. By your logic, I would have to be running at 186mph while pushing him in order to move him forward at 6mph. The plane is free to move forward at any speed regardless of how fast the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction. Do you understand now that the plane will take off? "

1/29/2008 11:08:09 PM

oh, duh

1/29/2008 11:18:22 PM

(assuming you're asking which of what you said is the myth)

The myth is most similar to

Quote :

"Treadmill - If freestanding with realistic friction, plane will roll with treadmill for a bit, but due to power being produced by propeller and not wheels (like a car), it will relatively quickly overcome the treadmill, pick up speed down the runway and take off."

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 11:21 PM. Reason : assume!]

1/29/2008 11:19:29 PM

Thank you. Ok then yes, it will take off.

1/29/2008 11:21:05 PM

It takes off in both scenarios he posted.

1/29/2008 11:22:40 PM

I thought the whole point of the treadmill is that it is moving in the negative direction at the same speed the plane is moving in the positive direction... therefore, no net movement, no air movement over the wings, and no thrust.


Also, the Rollerblade example makes sense... except the friend on the Rollerblades isn't trying to take flight.

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 11:25 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2008 11:22:44 PM

The treadmill could move at 2,000 mph against the plane, but it wouldn't stop the plane from moving forward.

You said it yourself, the plane "is moving in the positive direction". How is it standing still if it's moving in the positive direction?

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 11:24 PM. Reason : ]

1/29/2008 11:24:00 PM

Holy shit, I guess I need to post it again.

Quote :

"Ok, let me use this example again for those of you out there that still think the plane will not take off. You have a friend who is wearing roller skates. Think of him as being the plane. He is standing on one of those moving sidewalks(the treadmill) they have at the airport. It is not turned on yet. You are standing to the side on stationairy ground with your hand against your friends back. The moving sidewalk is turned on at this point to a speed of say 5mph. Your friend is remaining stationary because the small amount of force you are putting on his back is holding him in place. Imagine the force of your hand pushing on his back is the thrust of the engines. No matter how fast the treadmill goes, it required the same amount of force to hold him in place. Now say they crank up the treadmill to 180mph, the speed it takes most planes to take off, your hand against his back is still holding him right in place. At this point you begin to walk at a nice steady pace of 6 mph while pushing him along the moving sidewalk. If you don't think it will take off, then explain to me how the moving sidewalk can be going 180mph in one direction, while I am pushing my friend, with total ease, at only 6mph in the other direction. By your logic, I would have to be running at 186mph while pushing him in order to move him forward at 6mph. The plane is free to move forward at any speed regardless of how fast the treadmill is moving in the opposite direction. Do you understand now that the plane will take off? "

1/29/2008 11:24:03 PM

if it retracted its landing gear, it would hover right above the treadmill. right?

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 11:30 PM. Reason : aech]

1/29/2008 11:26:22 PM

DON'T

FEED

THE

FUCKING

TROLLS

1/29/2008 11:27:44 PM

no, i get what he said now. brain lapse on my part. The treadmill is going to let the wheels freely spin in relation to any negative velocity presented by the treadmill. Any force from the propeller will be a net positive, except the small amount to get past the static friction. It will quickly roll off the treadmill, go down the runway and take off. If the treadmill were long enough, it would do the same. The wheels however would be moving at flight speed + treadmill speed.

1/29/2008 11:28:42 PM

Quote :

"Plane -> propeller producing throst to pull it foward in the air, this action pulls the plane at a velocity relative to the ground air causing the air to flow at different speed over angled wings to create lift."

there, fixed that for you. The whole point of the treadmill though experiment demonstrates that the speed of the plane relative to the ground is irrelevant. Lift is generated when the speed of the wings through the air, and take-off occurs when the lift generated is enough to overcome gravity. How the plane reaches that speed relative to the air (or, similarly, how the air reaches that speed relative to the plane) is immaterial. It doesn't matter what's going on to the ground or water or whatever the hell is under neath the plane, as long as the plane can provide thrust to accelerate through the air, or the air can accelerate to such a speed to produce the same effect, such as in hurricane-strength winds or in a wind tunnel.


^ very nice. i think we have the first converter who actually gets it.

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 11:30 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 11:29:05 PM

what if the treadmill was in a wind tunnel?

1/29/2008 11:30:52 PM

What if this system was going at the speed of light and Owl Jolsen was providing the in-flight entertainment?

1/29/2008 11:32:19 PM

i love how this guy keeps posting the exact same block of text over and over and over and over and over again thinking that he has worked out the meaning of life or something.

think about it like this, if i order a margarita at chilis, and they slide it down the bar, there will be friction that negates the positive thrust. BUT, if you put the presidente RITA on one of the coasters and then slide it, you overcome the negated friction point of the salt rim, and therefore the rita can take flight

1/29/2008 11:32:29 PM

wanna go to chilis?

1/29/2008 11:34:16 PM

I keep posting that block of text because its the best example of showing that the plane can fly.

And that troll attempt was weak sauce.

The only reason you know I manage a Chili's is because I posted it on here. If I cared what you thought about it I would have never mentioned it.

Its not like one of you found out I work there and are calling me out on it.

1/29/2008 11:39:02 PM

[Edited on January 29, 2008 at 11:48 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2008 11:48:03 PM

why'd you edit? i like that picture

1/29/2008 11:49:37 PM

Posted it in the wrong thread. Meant to put it into the favorite picture thread.

1/29/2008 11:52:13 PM

ah i see. still a good picture though

1/29/2008 11:53:03 PM

Quote :

"The only reason you know I manage a Chili's is because I posted it on here. If I cared what you thought about it I would have never mentioned it. Its not like one of you found out I work there and are calling me out on it."

its not like it would make a difference how it came to light. well, i guess as long as it's true. but, if you're anything like me, you laugh whenever people pick on you for a thought you planted in their brain that isn't true. i know i sure do when you guys come at me with some of the sillier things that i got people to believe by insinuation.

anyway, you're right. no one cares enough to go find out stuff about you. that would be fucking weird and creepy. i can be an asshole occasionally, but i'm certainly not gonna hire MagnumPI to find out shit about you.

1/29/2008 11:57:45 PM

You mean you don't run a lemonade stand?

1/29/2008 11:59:41 PM

Quote :

"weak sauce"

1/30/2008 12:06:33 AM

i did have a video game on my cell phone called lemonade stand tycoon or something. it was fun

1/30/2008 12:09:06 AM

Quote :

"10 pages by Wednesday night"

Called it on page 1.

1/30/2008 11:38:25 AM

If I was in a plane about to crash I would jump out of the plane in a cardboard box. Right before the box slams into the ground, I would jump out of the box and walk away.

1/30/2008 11:57:15 AM

Didn't they already do the "Jump in an elevator right before it hits the ground" one like 3 seasons ago?

The dummy ate it, BTW.

1/30/2008 12:18:19 PM

yea they have done that already, it was pretty awesome

1/30/2008 1:18:46 PM

Quote :

"If I was in a plane about to crash I would jump out of the plane in a cardboard box. Right before the box slams into the ground, I would jump out of the box and walk away."

I predict that you will murdered by persons in the parachute industry. YOU KNOW TOO MUCH!!!

1/30/2008 1:31:20 PM

Quote :

"If I was in a plane about to crash I would jump out of the plane in a cardboard box. Right before the box slams into the ground, I would jump out of the box and walk away."

That would only work if in jumping you imparted all your momentum into the box. Say you weigh 200lbs and the box weighs 1 lb... you'd have to propel the box at 20,000 mph. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way to do that is to drink gallons of PowerThirst and kick it with your Energy Legs.

1/30/2008 2:24:11 PM

^ahahahaahahaa

1/30/2008 2:44:05 PM

Quote :

"page 10 says it doesn't take off "

1/30/2008 3:17:43 PM

almost time

1/30/2008 8:13:05 PM

1/30/2008 8:13:26 PM

(i don't have Discovery) is it on now, or at 9?

1/30/2008 8:32:23 PM

9

can't wait to see it take-off so all this faggotry will end

[Edited on January 30, 2008 at 8:34 PM. Reason : douchebaggery]

1/30/2008 8:32:39 PM

I have inside information that it's going to do neither. They're gonna blow that shit up instead.

[Edited on January 30, 2008 at 8:36 PM. Reason : ]

1/30/2008 8:34:08 PM

Almost showtime. Hope your watching bitches to see this baby take off!

1/30/2008 8:55:14 PM

oh, you know that when it takes off the deniers will just claim that it was on the wrong scale or the experiment wasn't set up properly or the speeds weren't sufficient or some bullshit excuse....

1/30/2008 8:57:29 PM

I just noticed "treadmill" is spelled wrong in the title of this thread.

1/30/2008 9:03:43 PM

The only thing I could see stopping it would be the wheels/tires failing if the treadmill was actually moving pretty fast. I'm guessing they've got it so they don't exceed the rated limit of the tires/wheels so... yeah.

1/30/2008 9:09:07 PM

I would be willing to bet that the wheels can easily take the 2x80 (if even that) or so mph their small, light plane needs to take off.

[Edited on January 30, 2008 at 9:10 PM. Reason : ]

1/30/2008 9:10:36 PM

it is not going to fly. it will move forward and then hit concrete and crash. it is going to be awesome!!!

1/30/2008 9:11:06 PM