THE CLOUD EXPANDS


[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 10:09 PM. Reason : FEDERAL]

2/4/2009 10:08:03 PM

ahaha...

FAIL ON PAGE 10.

NICE EDITS, fuckup

2/4/2009 10:09:36 PM

what the fuck are you talking about

i didn't know it was going to be page 10

when i saw that it was
i put in the janet reno pic

fuck off, mr charlie pace is currently an infant on a boat

2/4/2009 10:17:02 PM

Quote :

"the big question i have is how did ben impregnate rousseau?""

ahaha, my roommate asked the same question, and i looked at him like he was retarded.

anyone remember back from the early seasons any special or strange way Rousseau reacted to meeting/seeing Jin?

2/4/2009 10:21:21 PM

Quote :

"woodfoot i put you in charge of keep track of who's in the cloud and not. post it on every page so i know who's posts i don't have to bother reading I'm Big Business and i approved this message."

hmm...so I'm pretty sure that people under the cloud have no authority over the cloud

that's why I made it...and why most people were under the cloud


if someone can explain why the boat they were rowing didn't disappear during the time jump in the ocean...then I'd consider placing them in cloud purgatory...

2/4/2009 10:23:40 PM

Because the boat and the people that brought it are also time traveling?

or the same reason why nobody is naked when they travel to the distant past.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 10:27 PM. Reason : asdf]

2/4/2009 10:25:47 PM

The same reason the zodiac didn't

or the guns

or Faraday's backpack

or their clothes

2/4/2009 10:27:31 PM

so if you're touching an inanimate object then it to can travel through time with you

i can dig that rule

though it means the land in which you stand also travels through time

and it doesn't quite justify the the entire others camp from disappearing since asian dude and charlotte were sitting in a tent touching stuff in the tent

oh and http://www.besixdouze.fr was too weird of a site for me to investigate further this evening

2/4/2009 10:35:37 PM

SO ARE THE WHISPERS IN THE JUNGLE OTHERS OR THE GANG TIME TRAVELING THROUGH THE JUNGLE????

2/4/2009 10:48:19 PM

Quote :

"SO ARE THE WHISPERS IN THE JUNGLE OTHERS OR THE GANG TIME TRAVELING THROUGH THE JUNGLE????"

ahh, that's cool..... since the rule is you can't change the past, maybe that's all that comes through from the time-travellers when interacting with the present.


btw, the sound-channels seemed fucked up for me tonight. The musical score was even louder and more annoying than usual, and the background noise sometimes was loud enough to barely hear the people speaking.
anyone else get that?

2/4/2009 10:54:25 PM

ep tonight kinda sucked, but oh well

also, i kinda thought it was weak that jin was alive, but that is just personal opinion. seemed like a copout.

did rousseau ever meet jin after the plane crash?


edit: she had to right? i think i'm still not getting the whole "meet the time travelers then not remember it" thing

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 11:28 PM. Reason : a]

2/4/2009 11:27:17 PM

fuck jin being alive. i hope no one else from the freighter is alive.

i guess this episode confirms charlotte and the asian dude being on the island before, which would mean that when faraday is in the orchid this must be while he is time travelling- or is there another reason that he didn't experience the 'extreme jetlag' like the other two did.

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2/4/2009 11:33:23 PM

Quote :

"SO ARE THE WHISPERS IN THE JUNGLE OTHERS OR THE GANG TIME TRAVELING THROUGH THE JUNGLE????"

I like that theory a lot. I think a lot of the whispers have been transcribed, though, and I don't think anything they've said would relate to the time skippers.

Also, I'm not so clear on the fact that they can't change the past. They met Richard and the Others, right? Maybe it's all just a big time loop.

There's a theory on Lostpedia about the Ajira Airlines bottle and the boats they found: maybe those belonged to the Oceanic Six after they returned to the island. It makes sense with all the Return to the Island stuff on the Ajira website.

Not sure who the folks shooting at them were, though.

Quote :

"fuck jin being alive. i hope no one else from the freighter is alive. i guess this episode confirms charlotte and the asian dude being on the island before"

I don't really understand how Jin could have been close enough to the island to have survived. The helicopter was heading toward the island and they didn't make it. I guess it's just a plot device to get Sun to come back. In the preview for next week, Ben told Sun that he wasn't dead.

I still think that Miles is Dr. Candle's son. Weren't there allusions to Charlotte being on the island before? I can't remember anything specific.

[Edited on February 4, 2009 at 11:40 PM. Reason : ]

2/4/2009 11:36:49 PM

yeah, it more or less confirms that Miles is the kid of the Dr. guy, who did all the orientation videos.

Rousseau met Bernard, Jin and Syiad briefly. I guess it's reasonable not to recognize a guy 16 years later after you've been in the jungle by yourself going crazy the whole time

2/4/2009 11:38:40 PM

the people shooting could've been The others from the temple upset by their return. its hard to imagine widmore sending people in rowboats.




its obvious that you can change the past
as for meeting richard, this had to be in the past or a parallel existence.


and yes they eluded to charlotte being on the island before she said she was on the expedition to look for the place she was born. maybe this has to do with the video where the two rabbits couldn't get close to each other, maybe her past self is somewhere nearby on the island - same with Miles and because the time they were on the island is much farther in the past than the normal losties it causes more stress on time/space or something.

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2/4/2009 11:41:03 PM

So the name of this episode was called "The Little Prince".

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Prince :

Quote :

"The home asteroid or "planet" of the Little Prince is introduced. His asteroid (planet) is house-sized and named, B612"

The name Bésixdouze, which was written on the can that Locke found is the concatenation of B, six and douze, French for "B six twelve".

2/4/2009 11:51:51 PM

dammit people i told you weeks ago you can change the past

it was a warning not a limitation

have you never watched the twilight zone? the smallest change can have enormous impact

it will definitely be interesting to see them fill out all the answers with less than 30 episodes to go....

2/5/2009 12:04:22 AM

and i agreed with you 2 weeks ago, i will still argue that the changes in the past aren't really changes because they have already happened. For example, Locke told richard to go to his birth, but thats not really changing anything because that already happened and is more than likely the reason he's on the island in the first place. Its less changing the past and more completing your 'fate' (i don't like the word fate because it implies that there is a greater meaning to everything). I guess i just think they are acting out things that have already happened, its just the present to them.

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2/5/2009 12:10:54 AM

why are we so sure you can change the past now?

2/5/2009 12:12:39 AM

i don't think change is the right word, i think you can interact with the past, whether or not thats really a change is up for question. Remember, time is relative.

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[Edited on February 5, 2009 at 12:17 AM. Reason : and no, i don't feel bad about contradicting myself]

2/5/2009 12:14:16 AM

do you think locke could have shot widmore when he was running

or do you think the bullet would have jammed or whatever?

2/5/2009 12:29:13 AM

Quote :

"Not sure who the folks shooting at them were, though."

I'll tell you who it was:



This motherfucker is never gonna die.

2/5/2009 12:34:01 AM

This is kind of more my believe for real life, but i believe anything that they do would've already been done.


Like say John shot him, i think it would've been impossible for him to die. I mean for example, since they've gone to the past and interacted with widmore, its impossible for present time widmore to not remember this unless he just has terrible memory. On the other hand, like i said on the last page the producers said that the island will protect people who have 'more work to do' which is why widmore and ben can't die in present day affairs. Logically this would mean that they can't die back in 1956 either. Furthermore, the writers won't create any giant logical loop holes - time travel is already hard enough for most people to understand.

[words version]
Micheals gun locked when he tried to kill himself before the island was done with him. I believe time is a dimension in the same sense as x,y,z. I can move around in regular 3d space but i can't just change the x dimension that doesn't make sense. I believe time works more or less the same way

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2/5/2009 12:34:32 AM

^i pretty much agree with that, not sure about the island keeping Ben and Witmore alive, but it obviously did with Michael, and thats what i think happened with Jin too.

2/5/2009 12:37:32 AM

^well i just gathered that by the part about ben saying that he couldn't kill widmore because of the 'rules' but he would kill penny, as widmore killed alex.

speaking of Michael dying again, what was the significance of christian in particular being the one to appear to him right before he died.

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2/5/2009 12:38:18 AM

Quote :

"not sure about the island keeping Ben and Witmore alive"

If that weren't the case, one would have killed the other by now. Ben straight up walked into Widmore's bedroom. He could have easily blown his brains out.

2/5/2009 12:45:58 AM

well like ^^ said, ben mentioned that there were rules, i'm just not 100% certain what he is refering to is that the island won't let him do it, ben also thought is was against the rules to have his daughter killed, and it obviously wasn't

2/5/2009 12:51:56 AM

yeah i guess i took that as supporting my theory and less of a loophole. idk

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2/5/2009 12:53:17 AM

so now rousseau has met jin... so in the future, will she remember seeing him now? kinda like desmond remembers seeing faraday now?

2/5/2009 5:50:42 AM

Rousseau is dead

2/5/2009 6:44:09 AM

^^from agentlion further up on this page, and it reflects my view also:

Quote :

"I guess it's reasonable not to recognize a guy 16 years later after you've been in the jungle by yourself going crazy the whole time"

2/5/2009 8:29:01 AM

ahh, maybe you only remember things once they've happened in the present relative to the people who did them? or maybe desmond is really just special and rusesaseaseaseo forgot

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2/5/2009 10:57:26 AM

Maybe Charlie is Desmond's son.

The "Lord of the Rings" Charlie, that is.

2/5/2009 11:45:24 AM

How do you explain that he had an older brother?

2/5/2009 11:49:46 AM

Quote :

"ahh, maybe you only remember things once they've happened in the present relative to the people who did them? "

no, there is only one timeline. Everything that is happening in the past with the time travelers has already happened in the past the "first time". i.e. there is no "first time", there is only "one time"

2/5/2009 12:41:28 PM

^exactly. This was evidenced by Richard visiting Locke's birth. That had already happened in the past because future Locke told him when and where. Faraday explained it best with his string analogy (yeah, i know... similie for you sticklers) you can move back and forth, but you can't make a new string.

They seem to be keeping the time travel relatively straightforward, presumably to avoid a time-travel-alternate-future clusterfuck similar to another show on a different network that I won't bring up for fear of chastising.

And anybody who thinks Charlie Hume = Charlie Pace... y'all are really reaching.

2/5/2009 1:13:38 PM

^ yeah thats what i said, but then why did desmond only remember farraday being there once it happened in the present relative to faraday

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2/5/2009 3:16:20 PM

As Farraday said, the rules don't necessarily apply to Desmond, at least not like they do to everyone else. He seems to be *the* special one

2/5/2009 3:18:59 PM

i don't understand your logic. Did desmond remember because it actually happened in the past, or not?

i guess one thing that i do like about Jin being alive is that he doesn't know whats happening as of yet and he's by himself as of now. How much do we know about Rousseau's team and the sickness?

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2/5/2009 3:21:20 PM

^The way I understand it (so far) is that yes, Desmond got a new "memory" in the perceived present because of Faraday's interaction at the hatch in the past. Sawyer knocked and knocked on the hatch door and Faraday said it wouldn't work b/c at that point in time Desmond hadn't met Sawyer yet, and they couldn't b/c of the rules. Faraday then interacted w/ Desmond, which I assumed was b/c Desmond had already met Faraday at Oxford before he left to race his boat and ended up on the island. This raised a few questions for me:

1. Why didn't Desmod recognize Faraday if they'd already met at Oxford? Was it b/c he was wearing a radiation suit, was in a tense situation, and had been cooped up in the hatch for too long?

2. If people can't meet in the past b/c of the rules, then how was it that Rousseau was "allowed" to meet Jin in the past.

I'm not trying to over-analyze, I think the show is superb and I think they're handling time travel pretty doggone well thus far.

2/5/2009 3:57:51 PM

Quote :

"Sawyer knocked and knocked on the hatch door and Faraday said it wouldn't work b/c at that point in time Desmond hadn't met Sawyer yet"

So how was john able to kill that guy and meet richard in the past? How was faraday able to meet ellie? Or any of the other losties at the camp able to interact with the army others. I know i'm being picky, but i'm not convinced that we know all we need to know about time travel to make conclusions yet

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2/5/2009 5:16:10 PM

^i dont understand why you keep going back and forth with your opinions, you've answered that question yourself before, earlier on this page

2/5/2009 5:23:15 PM

Yeah, I'm under the cloud on the whole time travel thing

Faraday says if it didn't happen, it can't happen; if you try to make it happen, you will fail, every time.

That made sense during the Desmond/Faraday/Sawyer/hatch door encounter. Faraday and Desmond had met before (although Desmond for some reason didn't recognize Faraday) but Sawyer and Desmond hadn't yet met.

But like ^ said, that doesn't really work with Locke killing the Other dude, the science crew hanging around the Others' camp, Jim meeting Rousseau's team, etc.

I understand that Faraday said Desmond was "different", that the rules didn't apply to him, but I still don't know what the damn rules are.

Also, remember the Comic Con video with Dr. Chang? I watched that again this morning, it really seems like the cameraman is Faraday. The voice matches up, the knowledge of the future makes sense, and we know that Faraday was on the island with Chang.

2/5/2009 5:23:56 PM

Quote :

"btw, the sound-channels seemed fucked up for me tonight. The musical score was even louder and more annoying than usual, and the background noise sometimes was loud enough to barely hear the people speaking. anyone else get that?"

YES.

So here's my question. We saw Juliet get a nosebleed tonight. When will Sawyer and Locke get nosebleeds?

2/5/2009 5:28:14 PM

They won't, neither will Faraday

They were only on the island for three months (or less for Faraday). Juliet, Charlotte, and Miles were presumably on the island for several years. The nose bleeding is a sign of temporal displacement (or sickness or something). The longer you spend on the island, the more it affects you once you start jumping through time.

One more thing about the time skipping: wasn't Faraday (and the Dharma folks) doing experiments on sending one's consciousness through time and not one's actual physical self? What does that mean? Is there really a difference?

2/5/2009 5:33:19 PM

Quote :

"that doesn't really work with Locke killing the Other dude, the science crew hanging around the Others' camp, Jim meeting Rousseau's team, etc."

it works perfectly with locke killing the dude, we never saw that dude before in present times, so he obviously always had died in the past (yes that is somewhat of a joke since obviously they don't show us everyone, but it is still is sort of a valid point),

by science crew hanging around the others camp, do you mean miles, faraday and charlotte? if so, how does that not work?

as for Jin and Rousseau meeting, i'd like to go back and watch the earlier season when they first meet and see if she gives him any sort of strange look or anything, and if not, like has been said many times on this page, she was going crazy by herself on an island for 16 years, so its acceptable if she just forgot

2/5/2009 5:36:59 PM

Quote :

"by science crew hanging around the others camp, do you mean miles, faraday and charlotte? if so, how does that not work?"

Like I said, I don't really have a grasp on this shit, so bear with me.

Desmond didn't answer the door when Sawyer was banging on it, because he hadn't met Sawyer, right? (If that's not the case you can stop reading hear and make fun of me.)

The science crew hadn't met Alpert, or Widmore, or Ellie, or any of the others before 1954, right?

Jin didn't meet Rousseau or her crew before 1988, right?

How were those events allowed to happen? If it didn't happened, it can't happen, says Faraday.

2/5/2009 5:40:40 PM

P.S. Where the fuck are Rose and Bernard?

2/5/2009 5:41:20 PM

Quote :

"Desmond didn't answer the door when Sawyer was banging on it, because he hadn't met Sawyer, right?"

no you've got it backwards, its because in the future, when Desmond gets out of the hatch and meets everyone, he had never met Sawyer before, therefore he could not have met Sawyer in the past when he was banging on the door

2/5/2009 5:45:21 PM

So, you're saying that because Desmond and Sawyer meet for the first time in 2005, Sawyer couldn't mess things up and meet Desmond for the first time earlier than 2005?

2/5/2009 5:53:05 PM