Wow - Indy really is wolfpackgrrrs little bitch.

6/21/2010 12:11:19 PM

GGMon puts in his monthly Soap Box appearance.

6/21/2010 12:15:04 PM

So nobody wants a million dollars?

6/21/2010 1:56:23 PM

BridgetSPK:

Quote :

"DaBird, this business about Raleigh being an integrated city is bullshit. I dunno if you're purposefully lying or just mistaken...maybe because you don't expect to see a black family in an affluent neighborhood, you tend to exaggerate their numbers when you do see them? Anyway, few non-white families does not make an integrated neighborhood. And, seriously, Raleigh neighborhoods are especially not diverse when it comes to race and class...besides accommodating growth, why did you think we were bussing anyway? You think we were sending busses into your imaginary integrated neighborhoods and busing kids around just for the fuck of it?"

you are so dumb it hurts. I offered an opinion, based on my observations from my life. you libs cry and poke your lips out while using words like 'segregation' which are not close to being accurate. then you classically imply a racist tone to my observation. typical.

here is my frame of reference - which I mentioned before and you have not:

1. I work in neighborhoods all over Wake County at all levels of income. I have worked in the construction business since I was a freshman in high school which was almost 15 years ago. My last three customers nationalities/neighborhoods were : Indian - Brier Creek, Asian - Buckingham, Indian - Preston.

2. I have lived in very nice neighborhoods growing up, downtown in some of the 'worst', and I now live in a middle class neighborhood in Cary. In all three I had minority neighbors.

3. I worked in 3 different elementary schools all over the county for the YMCA for 6 years while in college.





the racial segregation of wake county by you and the other libs is VASTLY overstated. they bused kids all over the place to meet imaginary number standards, without regard to what the difference would be if neighborhood schools were implemented in the first. the two are mutually exclusive.

6/22/2010 7:08:56 PM

Quote :

"Also, one million dollars to the first genius in here who manages to connect the way we ran our schools to the fact that our "bad" neighborhoods aren't as bad as they could be."

simply pointing out the fallacy of some libs here than the black kids will all magically be sent to the "bad" schools in Wake County and the white kids will all end up at the "nice" when this policy is enacted, when there arent any bad schools. there are some better than others, but there are none you will mistake for the hard schools in the movies.

tell me where the bad schools are.

6/22/2010 7:14:49 PM

^^My frame of reference is that I have eyes, and I'm honest. The neighborhood I grew up in has had a grand total of two non-white families over the past seventeen years--currently, we're at zero.

In one way, you're right that we are more integrated than other cities. Because we chose to use bussing as aggressively as we did, we've had less white flight out of the city, but we still live separately for the most part. The majority of less affluent neighborhoods are populated by racial and ethnic minorities. And the majority of more affluent neighborhoods are populated by white folks.

This is not a liberal lie. It's just the truth. Everybody in this debate--school board members, posters in this thread, liberals, conservatives, whatever--agrees that our neighborhoods are not diverse in class or race, particularly those at the more affluent and less affluent ends of the scale.

^You're correct that there are no bad schools here now. We need to improve, but you're right that nobody is accusing of us academic genocide or threatening to take over our schools (a reality other counties have had to face).

But the reason why we have no bad schools is because we've used busing. They chose not to have schools that would be at 70% receiving free and reduced priced lunches...because they knew the other 30% would do their best to leave. As people with money leave, businesses in the area collapse. As businesses collapse, employment opportunities dry up for the people that are left, and the poor end up poorer. Now, these are just the first few steps to building yourself a "bad" school, but I'm sure you get the picture...

6/23/2010 1:27:02 AM

^
Holy fucking
You egalitarians are a total joke.
Oh boo hoo, this rich kid is gonna have a better life than this poor one!!
So fucking what? God damn!

Quote :

"The majority of less affluent neighborhoods are populated by racial and ethnic minorities. And the majority of more affluent neighborhoods are populated by white folks."

So fucking what? God damn! (you are a racist)

Quote :

"agrees that our neighborhoods are not diverse in class or race, particularly those at the more affluent and less affluent ends of the scale."

So fucking what? God damn! (you are a classist, too)

Quote :

"But the reason why we have no bad schools is because we've used busing. They chose not to have schools that would be at 70% receiving free and reduced priced lunches...because they knew the other 30% would do their best to leave. As people with money leave, businesses in the area collapse. As businesses collapse, employment opportunities dry up for the people that are left, and the poor end up poorer. Now, these are just the first few steps to building yourself a "bad" school, but I'm sure you get the picture..."

There is not a face nor a palm big enough to facepalm your incessant bullshit. You have it all figured out, don't you? (Why do I even respond to you?)

6/23/2010 9:08:38 AM

^I've argued this particular issue for years. It's not necessarily a matter of egalitarianism, being a liberal, social engineering, or boohooing for poor kids. It's good business.

Even conservative business owners saw the writing on the wall, and they have continued to support the busing policy all these years.

But, hey, you wanna pay extra in taxes to support people who can't find work and pour millions of extra dollars into failing schools, that's your business. And I don't wanna come off like I'm threatening you, but you should be clear that when these schools fail, we will have to pay one way or another. There are public schools in NC where per pupil spending nears $20,000/year...average for the state is less than $7,000/per pupil. And the extra money does not improve academic performance. But at least all the kids have bus rides that are an average of five minutes shorter! Thank God for that!

6/23/2010 5:31:35 PM

I think to be honest that class diversity in neighborhoods is a pipe dream. Not because people can't live together, but simply because they don't want to. Someone trying to figure out which of their cars they can afford to get repaired this month doesn't have much in common or even want to talk to someone who's biggest vehicle concern is whether they accidentally put regular in their corvette. People naturally congregate with like minded people with like problems and like successes. This isn't automatically a bad thing (although as pointed out, it can easily contribute to self destructive behavior).

It seems to me though, a better solution to the "white flight" problem (as if affluent blacks, asians and hispanics don't leave when the neighborhood gets bad too) is to provide incentives to stay. So when you build new schools, build them nearer or in the poorer performing districts. Not only would this reduce the class size for the current students (a good way to improve education) but it also provides incentives for people to stay or even move to the district (I know I would prefer my kids go to a school with 12 students per class as opposed to 20). As an added bonus, by putting a new school say on the border of a poor area and an affluent area, now you have a new "neighborhood school". Instant race class integration and a neighborhood school to boot. It's a win for everyone.

6/23/2010 7:08:38 PM

they've been building nice schools in shitty areas for a long time, hell hillside high in durham had some of the nicest facilities when it was built and its a terrible high school.

6/23/2010 7:11:11 PM

Quote :

"So when you build new schools, build them nearer or in the poorer performing districts."

lol, school location "affirmative action"...

6/23/2010 7:11:45 PM

Sort of. I just think that of all the things you can spend money on in a school (short of quality teachers) reducing the class size is one of the best.

^^ There's a considerable difference between a nice school building and building a nice school. It doesn't matter if you have all the latest wizbang $50,000 per room electronic whiteboard projector screens with student laptop integration devices that money can buy. If you don't hire quality teachers and you don't keep the class sizes manageable, all you've done is waste money.

6/23/2010 7:24:50 PM

well i mean if there was some secret to making a school "nice" we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. you can't superficially say, "hey, why don't we just make "nice" schools in the ghetto" because there is no consensus on how to make a "nice" school.

i mean otherwise i would just follow up your idea with, "why don't we just make every school nice then there is no issue at all!!!"

6/23/2010 8:06:28 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: I think to be honest that class diversity in neighborhoods is a pipe dream. Not because people can't live together, but simply because they don't want to. Someone trying to figure out which of their cars they can afford to get repaired this month doesn't have much in common or even want to talk to someone who's biggest vehicle concern is whether they accidentally put regular in their corvette. People naturally congregate with like minded people with like problems and like successes. This isn't automatically a bad thing (although as pointed out, it can easily contribute to self destructive behavior)."

Absolutely. Unless the neighborhood has options available at multiple price ranges, there's no chance we'll see class diversity in a single neighborhood. But the different neighborhoods at different price ranges don't have to be ten to twenty miles apart, which I think we've proven to a certain extent in Raleigh.

It's like how a really low income area doesn't have a grocery store nearby so they end up relying on convenience stores that have plentiful cheap alcohol selections but a $2 markup on milk. It's not a nefarious plot against them and their health. It's cause they straight up don't have the money to support a full-blown grocery store, BUT if there were a couple of middle-class neighborhoods around, then they could all have a grocery store. Stuff like this is less of a problem in Raleigh cause we've done good to avoid the utter isolation of the poor.

Quote :

"It seems to me though, a better solution to the "white flight" problem (as if affluent blacks, asians and hispanics don't leave when the neighborhood gets bad too) is to provide incentives to stay. So when you build new schools, build them nearer or in the poorer performing districts. Not only would this reduce the class size for the current students (a good way to improve education) but it also provides incentives for people to stay or even move to the district (I know I would prefer my kids go to a school with 12 students per class as opposed to 20). As an added bonus, by putting a new school say on the border of a poor area and an affluent area, now you have a new "neighborhood school". Instant race class integration and a neighborhood school to boot. It's a win for everyone."

I'm very, very excited at the idea of 12-student classrooms. If you could pull this off, it would be incredible. As it stands, you could never pull that off. And, without extra incentives, those "border schools" (which may be too costly to build anyway) would just see the more affluent half of the border trying to get out--just like any other school that's at the tipping point.

Currently though, magnet schools fulfill the role of your border schools. And it's kind of weird because you've predicted the trend. I've heard people are moving into those supposedly bad areas just to guarantee their kid's admission into a magnet...unfortunately, in the process, they may be pushing the less affluent folks who've lived their for decades out...and then what's the point of the magnet status? It's like an opposite tipping point!

I really, really like your ideas!

[Edited on June 23, 2010 at 8:51 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2010 8:35:19 PM

Quote :

"well i mean if there was some secret to making a school "nice" we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. you can't superficially say, "hey, why don't we just make "nice" schools in the ghetto" because there is no consensus on how to make a "nice" school. "

No, but I'm sure there's plenty of consensus on things that aren't necessary for a nice school. For example, a cousin of mine attends a school in Garner (sorry, I don't remember which one). This school has a 30-40 some inch TV/DVD player in every single classroom in the school, and even the cafeteria. And I'm sure that these TVs are used from time to time for educational things, but do you know what they're used for 99% of the time? As clocks. Yes, these big CRT, power sucking behemoths are used all day long to display the damn time. Never mind the money wasted on the TVs in the first place, the school is bleeding money in power consumption just to have the damn things on all day. And while that may give the school nice facilities, it doesn't actually do anything to raise the quality of the school. I wish I could say this is a one off thing, but you could walk into any school in NC or even really in the country and find something similar. We waste money on providing the best "facilities" without regard to how they contribute to the actual education. That isn't to say all money spent on facilities is a waste (students will learn better in sun lit rooms than in dank dungeons) but we're not even at that point of discussion yet.

Quote :

"And, without extra incentives, those "border schools" (which may be too costly to build anyway) would just see the more affluent half of the border trying to get out--just like any other school that's at the tipping point. Currently though, magnet schools fulfill the role of your border schools. And it's kind of weird because you've predicted the trend. I've heard people are moving into those supposedly bad areas just to guarantee their kid's admission into a magnet...unfortunately, in the process, they may be pushing the less affluent folks who've lived their for decades out...and then what's the point of the magnet status? It's like an opposite tipping point! "

Here's where the magic of "neighborhood" schools comes in. If we define a neighborhood school as the one you are closest to with capacity, then that's where you go. If you put the new schools and new capacity in lower performing areas, but result in smaller class sizes, you'll see a similar result as you get from magnet schools but with the weight of "neighborhood schools" to keep the local community from being squeezed out.

6/23/2010 9:07:41 PM

Quote :

"Here's where the magic of "neighborhood" schools comes in. If we define a neighborhood school as the one you are closest to with capacity, then that's where you go. If you put the new schools and new capacity in lower performing areas, but result in smaller class sizes, you'll see a similar result as you get from magnet schools but with the weight of "neighborhood schools" to keep the local community from being squeezed out."

Dude, I'm so on board with this. I would live anywhere for 12-student classrooms for my imaginary children. And teachers would line up for miles to get a chance to teach there. And it's a great idea because it addresses the lack of quality education for low-income students and affluent flight at the same time.

But there's no way in goodness they'd let us build new schools in areas that are already "managed" at 24 students to a class. Do you know of a city that has accomplished this arrangement? I would like to read more about how they pulled it off.

6/23/2010 9:24:53 PM

Quote :

"No, but I'm sure there's plenty of consensus on things that aren't necessary for a nice school. For example, a cousin of mine attends a school in Garner (sorry, I don't remember which one). This school has a 30-40 some inch TV/DVD player in every single classroom in the school, and even the cafeteria. And I'm sure that these TVs are used from time to time for educational things, but do you know what they're used for 99% of the time? As clocks. Yes, these big CRT, power sucking behemoths are used all day long to display the damn time. Never mind the money wasted on the TVs in the first place, the school is bleeding money in power consumption just to have the damn things on all day. And while that may give the school nice facilities, it doesn't actually do anything to raise the quality of the school. I wish I could say this is a one off thing, but you could walk into any school in NC or even really in the country and find something similar. We waste money on providing the best "facilities" without regard to how they contribute to the actual education. That isn't to say all money spent on facilities is a waste (students will learn better in sun lit rooms than in dank dungeons) but we're not even at that point of discussion yet."

ok so one example of wasted money and a vague reference to an energy saving plan is your solution?

not to be mean but you're sounding like a bev perdue campaign here, your idea of "making schools nice" is missing the whole "how the hell are we going to do it" part outside of "build more schools in shitty areas".

basically what bridgetspk is saying

6/23/2010 9:45:05 PM

Quote :

"But there's no way in goodness they'd let us build new schools in areas that are already "managed" at 24 students to a class. Do you know of a city that has accomplished this arrangement? I would like to read more about how they pulled it off."

Of course not, because no one (except maybe a few parents and some teachers) are interested in actually providing a quality education for kids. Instead we're more interested in busing them all over the damn county in a social engineering experiment and making sure they have the latest "educational technologies", and firing qualified individuals because they don't like to play your games. Our schools are a political playground for local and state politicians. Like most politicians they aren't interested in actually making things better, they're interested in justifying their existence.

Quote :

"not to be mean but you're sounding like a bev perdue campaign here, your idea of "making schools nice" is missing the whole "how the hell are we going to do it" part outside of "build more schools in shitty areas". "

I wasn't aware we were discussing how to fix the entire state and national education system. That's a much bigger topic that probably deserves an entire thread (or two) on its own. I was simply talking about the busing policy, its stated goals, and a better more effective way to accomplish those goals that help a few other problems as well.

I'm not here to talk about fixing the whole educational system, because that requires a massive change in how Americans approach government, namely in demanding actual accountability and not platitudes and whoever promises the most free stuff to half the people paid for by the other half.

6/23/2010 10:15:06 PM

Quote :

"1337 b4k4: Of course not, because no one (except maybe a few parents and some teachers) are interested in actually providing a quality education for kids. Instead we're more interested in busing them all over the damn county in a social engineering experiment and making sure they have the latest "educational technologies", and firing qualified individuals because they don't like to play your games. Our schools are a political playground for local and state politicians. Like most politicians they aren't interested in actually making things better, they're interested in justifying their existence."

???

You went from giving good suggestions and being friendly to ignorantly sassing the fuck out of me like a child.

Look. I'm sorry that your "magical" plan to have 12-student classrooms isn't feasible.

What we've been doing has been going on for over thirty years. It ain't no "social engineering" experiment...nobody's standing by monitoring how often the blacks and the whites talk to each other. And we certainly aren't in the habit of letting good teachers go because they don't like bussing--seriously, you think there are hordes of teachers leaving Wake Cty. because they're not happy with the fact that their schools are good?

If you wanna find a fucking playground, go to any other school district in the state.




In the meantime, try to get that other guy back who was posting under your name earlier. Currently, whoever is posting now has probably had a few too many and needs to reconsider his use of the word, "your," in his post. I ain't playing games.

6/24/2010 12:35:56 AM

Easy there killer. Though the word choice was admittedly bad, the "firing qualified people because they don't want to play your games" remark was a direct reference to the school board's stupid decision to dismiss Del Burns early, resulting in having to pay off his contract, finding someone to work in the mean time and still having to search for a new person (at the low low price of $100,000 to some recruitment firm). So, sorry about the poor word choice. There was plenty of snark, but it wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the politics that surround this issue. There are plenty of ways to improve the school system, and other ways to solve the busing issue, but as you point out, many are unfeasible. They're unfeasible mostly do to politics, and that is a shame.

6/24/2010 8:00:30 AM

How exactly is a 12 student classroom not feasible due to politics ?

6/24/2010 8:55:32 AM

Quote :

"It ain't no "social engineering" experiment..."

lol, that's exactly what the fuck it is. (keep fooling yourself, though.)


^
Well, for one, political partisans tend to dig in their heels and refuse to consider school privatization. With 100% private schools, class sizes of 12 would be very easy to achieve. Not to change the subject, though.

[Edited on June 24, 2010 at 9:53 AM. Reason : ]

6/24/2010 9:49:42 AM

There would have to be a crapload of schools, public or private, to achieve that. I'm not sure we have the space. Guess we could build skyscraper schools

6/24/2010 11:00:00 AM

Quote :

"How exactly is a 12 student classroom not feasible due to politics ?"

Find me a politician that can get themselves elected telling people that they can give kids 12 - 15 student classrooms, but in order to make that happen they have to raise taxes.

Quote :

"There would have to be a crapload of schools, public or private, to achieve that. I'm not sure we have the space. Guess we could build skyscraper schools "

There's really nothing wrong with a 2 or even 3 or 4 story school, but yes you would probably need to build more schools (about twice as many as now assuming you can't improve capacity at existing schools), but like I keep saying, if there is one thing you can dump money at and get a good return on investment in education its reducing the class sizes.

6/24/2010 12:52:19 PM

The fact that it would cost a shit more than the budget doesn't make it political, and going 100% private doesn't warrant a responsE because it's ben covered

6/24/2010 2:29:13 PM

Since both the budget and privatizing schools and/or vouchers are almost completely political issues, that would make the feasibility of classroom sizes a largely political issue as well.

But go for it, tell me what are the issues that prevent us from decreasing class sizes that aren't more or less controlled by politics. And before you start, yes, there is an upper limit on how much the government can actually squeeze from their citizens before the citizens can't pay the taxes anyway, but unless you're suggesting we're anywhere near that point, it's a political issue.

6/24/2010 4:23:29 PM

Quote :

"and going 100% private doesn't warrant a responsE because it's ben covered"

OH OK

6/24/2010 7:02:46 PM

Quote :

"There's really nothing wrong with a 2 or even 3 or 4 story school"

With a 4-story school we could also help tackle the issue of childhood obesity

I work in a 4-story school now and other than having to go up and down stairs all day it's fine. I don't know why most schools in NC are 1 or 2-story to be honest.

6/24/2010 10:03:15 PM

^ Nah, they'd have to install elevators, can't hurt anyone's self esteem you know

I would imagine that it cames down to construction costs originally. Many of the schools were built long before the population boom, and more stories tend to require different foundations. Since they didn't imagine needing such capacity, they didn't build a foundation to support it.

6/24/2010 10:18:07 PM

Quote :

"The neighborhood I grew up in has had a grand total of two non-white families over the past seventeen years--currently, we're at zero. "

what neighborhood is this?

and

Quote :

"(as if affluent blacks, asians and hispanics don't leave when the neighborhood gets bad too)"

[Edited on June 25, 2010 at 1:25 AM. Reason : .]

6/25/2010 1:25:33 AM

^None of your business.

But our neighborhood is modestly priced compared to a lot of these new places going up nearby. I'm pretty sure the neighborhood up the street from us with homes that start at $1.5M isn't going to be particularly diverse either. Of course, there are plenty of exceptions--the two black families in my neighborhood were most affluent people in the neighborhood, and I suspect the wealthiest people I've ever met in real life are my Asian friend's unassuming parents.

But overall, it's just a matter of economics and the way money is distributed between the races. Feel free to consult eleusis's posts and his link on page 3 if you need any more convincing of a reality that everybody but yourself is able to acknowledge.

[Edited on June 25, 2010 at 2:08 AM. Reason : ]

6/25/2010 2:00:47 AM

its funny how you make a remark about my need for reality while all of your posts are admitted "assumptions."

additionally, you are going to have to clarify if you are seeking financial diversity or ethnic diversity. you keep dancing around both as if they are dependent on each other when they are not.

6/25/2010 7:08:49 PM

I'm talking about racial/ethnic diversity. The reason why I continue to bring up money is because it's the main reason why a lot of our neighborhoods are not diverse. According to the link I mentioned, black/Latino students in Wake County are ten times more likely to receive free and reduced priced lunch...following these numbers, there's just no way in hell that your claim of diversity ("most of the affluent neighborhoods are pretty damn diverse anyway") could possibly be true.

And a lot of it has to do with money, but we also still have some racial stuff going on in real estate. For example, here are lots of majority-black middle-class neighborhoods. My friend wants to live in one, and I assume it's because she wants to be around other black people or whatever. But I'm pissed because I know the real estate agent is pushing her towards that direction in order to dump the listing/not have to try to convince one of her white clients to buy a home in a majority-black neighborhood. It's still easier for them to put the blacks with the blacks and the whites with the whites.

6/25/2010 8:40:02 PM

Quote :

"But I'm pissed because I know the real estate agent is pushing her towards that direction in order to dump the listing/not have to try to convince one of her white clients to buy a home in a majority-black neighborhood."

How do you "know" this?

6/25/2010 10:02:27 PM

Quote :

"I'm talking about racial/ethnic diversity. The reason why I continue to bring up money is because it's the main reason why a lot of our neighborhoods are not diverse. According to the link I mentioned, black/Latino students in Wake County are ten times more likely to receive free and reduced priced lunch...following these numbers, there's just no way in hell that your claim of diversity ("most of the affluent neighborhoods are pretty damn diverse anyway") could possibly be true. And a lot of it has to do with money, but we also still have some racial stuff going on in real estate. For example, here are lots of majority-black middle-class neighborhoods. My friend wants to live in one, and I assume it's because she wants to be around other black people or whatever. But I'm pissed because I know the real estate agent is pushing her towards that direction in order to dump the listing/not have to try to convince one of her white clients to buy a home in a majority-black neighborhood. It's still easier for them to put the blacks with the blacks and the whites with the whites."

1. black and latino are not the only groups that qualify as 'minorities.' there are plenty of other minorities that can make a school diverse. the absence of black people, or indian people or latino people, does NOT mean that school wont be diverse. when there is an absence of several of these groups, then I am listening. a very high percentage of the people earning high wages in this county are Indian and Asian. you keep ignoring that. draw the lines. lets see the ratio of white people to all minorities. not just blacks or latinos. if that ratio is fucked up, then I would consider changing my stance.

2. "block busting", red lining or racial steering of any kind is 100% illegal and an offending party should be reported to either the NC real estate commission or their superiors at whatever lending institution they are working for.

your assumption on the real estate matter, however, is fucking ridiculous. especially as an argument for neighborhood schools.

further, what is wrong with your friend wanting to live around other black people? it obviously bothers you. your "anger" over it is just another example in the infinite examples of bleeding hearts seeking to push their individual ideals of utopia on everyone else.

6/25/2010 10:49:07 PM

^^Meh, just read about the practice in books.

And it makes sense that it would work like that on occasion.

[Edited on June 25, 2010 at 11:10 PM. Reason : sss]

6/25/2010 11:01:29 PM

Quote :

"DaBird: 1. black and latino are not the only groups that qualify as 'minorities.' there are plenty of other minorities that can make a school diverse. the absence of black people, or indian people or latino people, does NOT mean that school wont be diverse. when there is an absence of several of these groups, then I am listening. a very high percentage of the people earning high wages in this county are Indian and Asian. you keep ignoring that. draw the lines. lets see the ratio of white people to all minorities. not just blacks or latinos. if that ratio is fucked up, then I would consider changing my stance."

A smattering of Asian families in a neighborhood does not make it diverse.

Asians make up like less than four percent of Wake County's population. Why would you look at their numbers to determine education policy that will affect everybody? You ain't making no sense.

Quote :

"DaBird: 2. "block busting", red lining or racial steering of any kind is 100% illegal and an offending party should be reported to either the NC real estate commission or their superiors at whatever lending institution they are working for. your assumption on the real estate matter, however, is fucking ridiculous. especially as an argument for neighborhood schools. further, what is wrong with your friend wanting to live around other black people? it obviously bothers you. your "anger" over it is just another example in the infinite examples of bleeding hearts seeking to push their individual ideals of utopia on everyone else."

You're right in that I should not have used the word "pissed." I'm not all that outraged about it.

However, how can you know so much about real estate and still sit back and claim that "most affluent neighborhoods are pretty diverse?" You're just straight up wrong.

6/25/2010 11:42:29 PM

Quote :

"^^Meh, just read about the practice in books. And it makes sense that it would work like that on occasion."

And it doesn't worry you at all that without any evidence at all, that you assume someone you don't know is trying illegally and illicitly push your friend into a choice? A choice that you freely admit she's making on her own? I mean I get the good intentions and I get the idea of being vigilant for such things, but an assumptions like that overshadow these types conversations in a bad way and make it hard to have an honest conversation and reach any honest conclusions.

And I'm not trying to be mean here, for as much as I tend to disagree with you, you at least seem to genuinely care about these things, but I hope you see how dangerous that sort of mindset can be.

[Edited on June 26, 2010 at 12:03 AM. Reason : sdfg]

6/25/2010 11:56:34 PM

^ what are you saying? You don't think real estate agents might consider race in the way BSPK is noting?

Do you really expect agents to come out and say "yes, we do certain things based on skin color" and in the absence of such a statement, just say those practices simply don't exist?

If you are waiting for a poll or study where people come out and admit they are racist, you're going to be waiting for a long time. That is a somewhat naive mentality to take i think. The correlations are there, the causes are known, it's the solutions that are still somewhat elusive.

But asserting that the correlations or causes don't exist is counterproductive.

6/26/2010 12:37:27 AM

^^It was just a one-off example of how money doesn't entirely dictate where people choose to live and whatnot. Some people pick a majority-[blank] neighborhood because they don't wanna be in the minority. Sometimes there's some steering going on.

I didn't intend to upset anybody by mentioning these things. And I hope I haven't upset you in revealing my "mindset" about the way real estate can work sometimes...

The amount of words/upset you're devoting to a small (largely inoffensive) portion of my post seems really disingenuous. What I'm getting from you right now is feigned outrage: "OMG, YOU'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS AND HINDERING HONEST CONVERSATION! YOU'RE DANGEROUS!!"

6/26/2010 1:04:12 AM

This just in

People like being around other people who are like them

6/26/2010 1:07:27 AM

^ i don't.

6/26/2010 1:10:13 AM

Quote :

"Asians make up like less than four percent of Wake County's population. Why would you look at their numbers to determine education policy that will affect everybody? You ain't making no sense."

I am saying draw the lines. See where the chips fall, which include all minorities. if the ratios are crazy, I will re think my position. I think you would be surprised.

6/26/2010 10:26:35 AM

Quote :

"^ what are you saying? You don't think real estate agents might consider race in the way BSPK is noting?"

Not at all, I'm saying it's sad that in absence of any evidence that this is occurring in a given situation, the accusation is still being made.

Quote :

"The amount of words/upset you're devoting to a small (largely inoffensive) portion of my post seems really disingenuous. What I'm getting from you right now is feigned outrage: "OMG, YOU'RE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS AND HINDERING HONEST CONVERSATION! YOU'RE DANGEROUS!!""

It's not that I find it offensive or even outrageous, it merely highlights a sad point I made earlier in the thread which is that these discussions are often clouded by false and premature accusations of racism and malicious intentions.

It's like when that whole mess with Prof. Gates was all over the news and he was talking about the crushing racism he experienced here in Durham when he was having his house built and the delivery man made the mistake of asking the him who the owner was.

Why don't we give people the benefit of the doubt any more? Why do we always seem to assume the worst, even in the absence of any evidence that the worst is occurring? I'm not offended or outraged, merely wishing that these sorts of assumptions were the exception instead of the norm.

6/26/2010 4:44:15 PM

Quote :

"RALEIGH -- The Wake County school board decided to spend almost twice as much for a company to search for its next superintendent as it would have cost to hire the next highest bidder. But the extra cost of about $40,000 to hire the Illinois-based executive search firm Heidrick & Struggles will be well worth it to bring about the kind of fundamental change the Wake board majority has promised, says Debra Goldman, the member heading up the board's search committee. "

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/28/554910/board-takes-the-highest-bid.html#ixzz0s9gIHdoz

Let me guess, they're going to be asking for a bond in the near future

6/28/2010 9:45:44 AM

Quote :

"RALEIGH -- A Wake County school board member's decision to invoke his dating history to defend his opposition to the district's discarded socioeconomic diversity policy is drawing complaints from opponents. School board member John Tedesco said he had a "few ex-girlfriends who were African American and Latino women" in a letter last week to the Rev. Nancy Petty, pastor of Raleigh's Pullen Memorial Baptist Church, and to the media. "My whole life has been integrated, my family, friends and relationships," said Tedesco, who is white, in an interview Monday. "Every single aspect of my life has been integrated." "

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/29/556386/tedescos-comments-called-degrading.html#ixzz0sFPpmHbt

I don't think this quote is a big deal but it did kind of make me lol. "I'm not racist; my best friend is black!"

6/29/2010 9:18:16 AM

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

6/29/2010 9:52:36 AM

Quote :

"I don't think this quote is a big deal but it did kind of make me lol. "I'm not racist; my best friend is black!""

i dont know, when you get boxed in and people accuse you of something that isnt true, especially something as vile as racism, you will say just about anything to try and demonstrate otherwise.

to me, a history of relationships and associations (if true) speak louder than words.

6/29/2010 3:49:14 PM

Are people accusing the individuals of being racist or the policy of being racist? I haven't paid much attention to the rabble of the NAACP to be honest.

6/30/2010 1:37:53 PM