klob is probably out after this MN shooting outrage. she shoulda disciplined those guys when she had the chance, i guess.

5/29/2020 8:25:31 AM

Can someone sell me on why Warren is being held in such high regard as a VP pick? Two 70 year olds on the ticket isn't ideal and dems would potentially a Senate seat. Is it just name recognition?

5/29/2020 3:29:18 PM

a handout to progressives who think biden isnt progressive enough and a woman

and a minority!

and not sanders

5/29/2020 3:30:13 PM

Let me post something positive for once. Biden's out in public while Trump cowers in a bunker
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1267216045246382082?s=19

6/1/2020 9:25:25 AM

It’s definitely where he can draw the biggest contrast with Trump. You can say a lot of things wrt Biden but everyone on all sides knows he’s empathetic. It’s bullshit optics but a lot of independents still love that. It gives the appearance of doing something while doing nothing.

That doesn’t change his lack of a desire to do what needs to be done but Trump has even less will to do anything and sets out to actively harm.

6/1/2020 10:40:40 AM

https://twitter.com/tylerpager/status/1267460961109229568?s=20

This is great optics if Biden can get the public to see him. He's not talking hes just listening and taking notes. His comms on the issue have been spot-on IMO, focusing on the fact that we got here through a decades long windup of the system against black people.

6/1/2020 10:46:44 AM

Quote :

"Biden said "there are a lot of different things that can change" about police training. One example he said was if cops rushed by unarmed person, they could "shoot them in the leg instead of the heart is a very different thing.""

6/1/2020 1:26:31 PM

Jesus, reflection of Trump saying shoot migrants in the leg. At least Trump said it in private so he could deny it later!

6/1/2020 3:36:26 PM

So you agree, neither presidential nominee should be suggesting we shoot people in the leg?

6/1/2020 3:38:27 PM

I'm gonna paraphrase the old tweet

Trump wants police to shoot people in the leg
Biden wants FEMALE police to shoot people in the leg


Coz, whats GWBs stance on leg shooting

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 3:52 PM. Reason : Hch is not the coz my b]

6/1/2020 3:40:34 PM

GWB: ALL ADULT MALES ARE ENEMY COMBATANTS

6/1/2020 3:43:16 PM

Hmmmmm I'm not seeing any leg shooting there, classic dodge by the Texan

6/1/2020 3:51:33 PM

Why don’t you let us know where you are quoting that from HCH?

The video I keep seeing on Twitter, Biden clearly corrects himself and instead says “or if they have a knife or something.” Actually it’s kinda difficult to even tell if he says unarmed because it’s muffled behind his mask.

It’s a dumb sentiment regardless of if he meant armed or unarmed (cops should only be using firearms in life and death situations, you don’t “shoot for a leg” in a situation like that, it’s fucking dumb), but wherever you got that quote from is trying to purposefully mislead you.

6/1/2020 3:57:29 PM

Quote :

"Biden today on police training: "Instead of standing there and teaching a cop when there's an unarmed person comin' at 'em with a knife or something to shoot 'em in the leg instead of the heart is a very different thing." https://t.co/2xgqvlQtJ2"

It barely changes anything. It's still a statement coming from a place of ignorance. The goal should be to do everything possible to keep an officer from having their weapon out in the first place.

"shoot them somewhere else" is either heartless or stupid


Oops I guess I'm agreeing with your last sentence but the knife thing just makes it weirder. If you can't speak well you shouldn't improv.

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 4:09 PM. Reason : E]

6/1/2020 4:09:04 PM

It’s a gaffe, for sure. But messing up saying armed vs unarmed barely registers in the universe of political gaffes.

What really interests me is how dishonest people are being about it (specifically Ryan Knight on Twitter). It reeks of desperately searching for a reason to shit on Biden.

I wish I could shake every thirty-something leftist in this country and scream “PUT DOWN THE ROSE TWITTER CRACK PIPE ITS GOING TO DESTROY US.”

6/1/2020 4:22:49 PM

It's not a gaffe, it's a representation of how he misunderstands what the focus is here. We're protesting police violence and he suggests police be violent in a different way.

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

6/1/2020 4:30:24 PM

I misread your post

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 4:36 PM. Reason : Misread sorry]

Edit:

The context of that discussion was increased less-than-lethal training for cops. “Shoot for the legs” is a dumb fucking idea and in no way would it solve our police violence problem (in fact it might make it worse).

But why do people feel the need to represent it as “Biden wants Cops to shoot unarmed people in the legzzzzzz!!!!!!!”

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 4:42 PM. Reason : Is it just hyperbole????]

6/1/2020 4:33:38 PM

Quote :

"What really interests me is how dishonest people are being about it (specifically Ryan Knight on Twitter). It reeks of desperately searching for a reason to shit on Biden. I wish I could shake every thirty-something leftist in this country and scream “PUT DOWN THE ROSE TWITTER CRACK PIPE ITS GOING TO DESTROY US.”"

agreed. it was pretty shocking to me how quickly ProudResister transformed into a full-on socialist toxic bernie bro. there's a lot to be outraged about in this world for sure, but NEVER go full-on socialist toxic bernie bro

6/1/2020 4:40:08 PM

lol of course they're parroting the quote without the 'knife or something' bit. So predictable.

Like it's a dumb quote, but in context it drastically changes the meaning

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 5:00 PM. Reason : a]

6/1/2020 4:59:34 PM

He also SAID unarmed so at best the meaning is ambiguous. It's his fault for fucking up that bad.

6/1/2020 8:28:18 PM

The crime bill was a gaffe too. Stop gaslighting us by pretending Biden being a "tough on crime" piece of shit is not common knowledge.

6/1/2020 8:37:39 PM

^^ Come on man, his next words were 'with a knife'

6/1/2020 8:49:43 PM

Why did he say unarmed then?

6/1/2020 9:00:21 PM

^He misspoke. Is that hard for you to understand?

6/1/2020 9:13:53 PM

Either he misspoke or he was going on a some random definition of the word 'unarmed'. When I was in the military, armed meant firearms. People with sticks, rocks, and knives, were unarmed.

6/1/2020 9:16:22 PM

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 11:06 PM. Reason : .]

6/1/2020 11:04:09 PM

^^^and when you misspeak people dont know what you mean. You can't rely on people making up definitions of unarmed to figure out why the sentence had a double meaning. Especially since what he said was off the rocker anyway.

Quote :

"um get the facts straight please. biden did not say to shoot unarmed people in the legs! he said to shoot unarmed people >who have knives< in the legs. which >doesn't make any sense<"

https://twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1267529985767682049?s=19

[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 11:12 PM. Reason : It would be a pretty basic journalist question "did you mean armed or unarmed" ]

6/1/2020 11:12:21 PM

Quote :

"and when you misspeak people dont know what you mean."

...and that is totally irrelevant to the question of "why" he said it, which is the question that you asked and the question that I answered.

6/1/2020 11:25:37 PM

it isnt b/c you are just guessing that he misspoke with that word, he could have misspoke about the knife. who fucking knows. the kindest reading of his batshit statement is that he misspoke with unarmed, a less kind reading is that he meant unarmed and with knives, another reading is that he doesnt know what he means he was jsut letting words pour out of his mouth.

this whole discussion is about people misunderstanding him, intentional or otherwise, but if they did, its his fault. if he hadnt talked positively about shooting someone, this discussion wouldnt have to happen.

6/1/2020 11:29:57 PM

How could he have misspoken about the knife? If the person was actually unarmed how would the knife even be in the equation?

Clearly he misspoke and just used unarmed as incorrect shorthand for "doesn't have a firearm"


[Edited on June 1, 2020 at 11:54 PM. Reason : ]

6/1/2020 11:53:52 PM

^^Yeah, I get that when people misspeak it can sometimes be difficult to understand the intended meaning, and I get that it is the fault of the misspeaker.

What I don't understand is the purpose in overanalyzing why he misspoke (or why he said precisely what he said). It's like asking why someone fell--There is no "why", really; it was simply an accident. Attributing anything more to it is completely asinine.

6/2/2020 12:15:05 AM

not to horosho it up, but imagine if Trump had advocated shooting to maim, in any context. you guys would be nutting yourself.

6/2/2020 12:18:22 AM

My whole problem with the Biden “wants cops to shoot the unarmed” episode is we are about to enter the upside down with regards to information/disinformation. There have already been multiple Biden deep fake videos, not to mention the president extorting other nations to invent dirt and the dirtiest AG of all time actively digging.

Seeing how this narrative broadcast online, when just watching the attached video made it seem like such a nothingburger. It doesn’t give me much hope, including for myself. We are going to need to be so cautious, but in another few months it is going to just be a firehouse of lies.

6/2/2020 6:15:09 AM

Quote :

"Why don’t you let us know where you are quoting that from HCH?"

Yeah I don't get why it's so fucking hard to show your math/link your sources with this shit

Quote :

"So you agree, neither presidential nominee should be suggesting we shoot people in the leg?"

Nor should a presidential nominee be suggesting we grab women "by the pussy" WTF is your point?

Quote :

"not to horosho it up, but imagine if Trump had advocated shooting to maim, in any context. you guys would be nutting yourself"

In the realm of "crazy shit that Cheeto has said" I'm not sure shooting to maim would really register at this point.

6/2/2020 7:14:02 AM

Quote :

"not to horosho it up, but imagine if Trump had advocated shooting to maim, in any context. you guys would be nutting yourself."

This is kind of bizarre. He is a cat food-brained 73 year old but one thing he’s essentially been publicly consistent on for 35 years is extrajudicial killing of protestors. At least since Tianeman Square, but probably longer. I’d actually be pleasantly surprised he was being nuanced. Of course, he isn’t capable of nuance so this won’t happen.

6/2/2020 7:56:08 AM

I've always wondered why more police officers don't go for the legs, but even then, there's a decent chance that they would hit the femoral artery and cause people to bleed out.

6/2/2020 8:04:39 AM

Because you aim for center mass. Its the part of the body most likely to stop a bullet (ie not go behind the target) and also the largest and least mobile target.

Biden's comment was stupid, I'm not going to pretend it wasn't, it speaks of someone who no training in firearms or use of force...which hey, I'm actually fine with. I think Biden is smart enough to actually listen to experts and at least recognizes there needs to be a change in training and isn't talking about 'vicious dogs and ominous weapons'. As for the unarmed bit, I have zero problems with that, I've heard unarmed and armed used to signify if someone was carrying a firearm repeatedly before.

That said, there is a hell of a lot of difference in the statements when you leave off 'with a knife or something' and it's disgusting to just take it out of context and repeat right wing talking points.

[Edited on June 2, 2020 at 8:17 AM. Reason : a]

6/2/2020 8:16:15 AM

Bc once your weapon is out, you are presumably in a life or death situation and it is too dangerous to look for a smaller target. Once anyone has a gun out for any reason, they better be sure a person doesn't get to them.

This is why everything needs to be done to keep that officer from pulling a gun in the first place.


^agree to the first part

To the second I'll let the argument die. I'm riled up bc it's extremely frustrating that the only person that can remove Trump from office has great difficulty with public speaking. Maybe in this election it won't matter but he makes me very worried.

[Edited on June 2, 2020 at 8:20 AM. Reason : E]

6/2/2020 8:18:48 AM

^^Just like I wish Trump would have put twitter down years ago and work on his speech, Biden needs to do the same thing. But will his ego allow him to see a weakness and work with a coach? Biden doesn't seem quite as egotistic as Trump.

I get the whole center mass argument, and once you pull your gun, then you've ruled out all other options, but damn, I wish it were easier to maim, if it comes to that point. I get that not everybody is Raylan Givens.

6/2/2020 8:57:37 AM

Dude is old as shit, I think some of the stuff can be blamed on his stutter (which apparently takes more effort to control as you age). At the very least, he has apologized for some of his gaffes and is aware he has a stutter.

Having 70 year olds as the main name on the ticket is a mistake. I'm fine with having someone who is more senior in age as VP for a younger President or maybe as SoS to fufill the elder statesman type role, but god I wish the Dems had put someone in their 40s or 50s up as candidate.

[Edited on June 2, 2020 at 9:13 AM. Reason : a]

6/2/2020 9:12:57 AM

Pivoting to Biden’s VP for a minute, I think these current events make it more likely that Biden would pick a person of color as his VP (ride that wave of social justice) and firmly moves Klobuchar toward the bottom. Klobuchar was would carry too much baggage as her role in Minnesota’s injustice toward people of color, especially blacks.

Kamala has her own skeletons involving harsh penalties and imprisonment for people of color, but she may be able to dodge it a bit more than Klobuchar.

6/3/2020 8:08:43 PM

^^ young female leaders In New Zealand and Norway have been kicking ass

We need one of those. I honestly think AOC can do it. She’s really smart despite what the right wing likes to Say about her. And she’s actually moved to the center on some issues that berniebros have criticized her for. The fact that she was forced into the spotlight and didn’t falter is a testament to her political savvy too.

6/3/2020 11:29:19 PM

She’s by far the most savvy leftist politician we have seen in generations. That will turn her off to some on the extreme fringes, because she does make SOME concessions but that it how it works.

6/4/2020 7:40:34 AM

Quote :

"We need one of those. I honestly think AOC can do it. She’s really smart despite what the right wing likes to Say about her. And she’s actually moved to the center on some issues that berniebros have criticized her for. The fact that she was forced into the spotlight and didn’t falter is a testament to her political savvy too."

She doesn't meet the requirements for VP though (<35 years old). And I have to think that if we're still talking about BLM/racial inequity when the decision is made, we're going to hear about how a POC wasn't good enough and it should have been an african american woman.

6/4/2020 8:30:39 AM

I honestly hope he picks Susan Rice.

6/4/2020 9:14:56 PM

Quote :

"She’s by far the most savvy leftist politician we have seen in generations."

Please explain this beyond simply annoying Republicans, which of course she is very good at.

6/5/2020 11:46:33 AM

Quote :

"A Joe Biden op-ed: "I’m proposing an additional $300 million to reinvigorate community policing in our country. Every single police department should have the money they need to institute real reforms" https://t.co/soLnZUDDgg"

6/10/2020 9:55:45 AM

I'm just curious, what is your problem with that?

'Defunding the Police' as vague as it is, polls at a massive 16%. The changes that he's talking about in his op ed aren't vague

Quote :

"If state and local governments fail to make necessary changes, the Department of Justice must have subpoena power for pattern or practice investigations into systemic misconduct by police departments and force these departments to reform."

Fantastic.

Quote :

"I do not believe federal dollars should go to police departments that are violating people’s rights or turning to violence as the first resort"

Me too!

Quote :

"getting cops out of their cruisers and building relationships with the people and the communities they are there to serve and protect. That’s why I’m proposing an additional $300 million to reinvigorate community policing in our country. Every single police department should have the money they need to institute real reforms like adopting a national use of force standard, buying body cameras, and recruiting more diverse police officers."

Solid start!

Most police reforms are going to come from local or state control, DoJ can't do much besides oversight and make services/equipment available/unavailable. I don't see an issue with him campaigning on 'hey, if you want federal funding, you need to have to ensure your force reflects the makeup of your community, you're transparent, and your cops are wearing body cams'

If you want him to say 'Defund the Police!' regardless of his intent, it will absolutely be used to demonize him by Trump and run on every attack ad.

6/10/2020 10:38:44 AM

He doesn't need to say "defund the police" necessarily but they def don't need to be given MORE money. Police HAVE body camera, they turn them off. They HAVE rules against choke holds, they use them anyway. Training is good in theory, but it's going to overwhelm their years and years of training from the opposite direction? As for diversity, the Atlanta 6 more mostly black men right? A few of the Minny officers were POC. There is no evidence that police from the community show less violence.

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

Quote :

"So, before I give some suggestions, let me tell you what probably won’t solve the problem of bastard cops: - Increased “bias” training. A quarterly or even monthly training session is not capable of covering over years of trauma-based camaraderie in police forces. I can tell you from experience, we don’t take it seriously, the proctors let us cheat on whatever “tests” there are, and we all made fun of it later over coffee. - Tougher laws. I hope you understand by now, cops do not follow the law and will not hold each other accountable to the law. Tougher laws are all the more reason to circle the wagons and protect your brothers and sisters. - More community policing programs. Yes, there is a marginal effect when a few cops get to know members of the community, but look at the protests of 2020: many of the cops pepper-spraying journalists were probably the nice school cop a month ago."

Eric garner
https://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A10170&term=2013&Memo=Y

[Edited on June 10, 2020 at 10:51 AM. Reason : E]

6/10/2020 10:48:10 AM

Quote :

"There is no evidence that police from the community show less violence."

This is incorrect. There is mixed evidence that it helps, with some people theorizing the benefit of PoC in a majority white police has reasons for failing

Quote :

"Patrick Oliver, who directs a police chief mentoring program for the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, said minorities are more likely to assimilate into a department’s behaviors if there aren't many on staff because they’re more isolated"

Quote :

"Residents are more likely to relay feedback, Oliver said, when agencies reflect their communities, and these agencies will generally maintain stronger community relationships as a result. “When segments of the community are not part of the agency, there’s a reason for that and you have to address it,” Oliver said. “It’s not going to happen overnight.”"

Both from https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-police-department-diversity.html

Quote :

"Police HAVE body camera, they turn them off. They HAVE rules against choke holds, they use them anyway."

Biden addresses that by wanting to give DoJ more oversight power and eliminate federal funds to places that are breaking this law.

Quote :

" but it's going to overwhelm their years and years of training from the opposite direction? "

Yeah, it's not going to be an overnight fix, no one is saying it is

6/10/2020 10:59:37 AM