OTOH, Lowe had a pretty strange problem happen to him -- the seniors he inherited got WORSE over his tenure.

If they had developed like you expect normal players to develop, we probably would have made the tourney one of these years.

Maybe that was in his control, maybe it was not. The underclassmen certainly do seem to be improving in a normal fashion. It sucks balls if it really was an issue of the old regime pouting at adjusting to the new regime because that just means everyone wasted their lives during these years.

Regardless, the smart people are saying give him 5, max, to get it together with his guys. Lowe probably needs 5 years over other potential hires because of a lack of recruiting ties. If you look at coaches who came in and had success before year 5, they all could hit the ground running on recruiting. Lowe is just now starting to bring in athletic players.

If there is someone better on the open market and the moron Fowler isn't at the helm, make a play for him.


[Edited on March 12, 2009 at 11:34 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2009 11:27:27 PM

i'd take calipari if he would come here and bring his recruits, but other than that i'll stick with sid for awhile...he's one of us, and he hasnt even finished 3 years yet

3/12/2009 11:42:53 PM

Before this season, we were 391-391 all-time in the ACC (that's the 4th best record)

Guess what that means

3/12/2009 11:52:52 PM

Quote :

". Lowe probably needs 5 years over other potential hires because of a lack of recruiting ties. If you look at coaches who came in and had success before year 5, they all could hit the ground running on recruiting. "

Quote :

". Lowe probably needs 5 years over other potential hires because of a lack of recruiting ties. If you look at coaches who came in and had success before year 5, they all could hit the ground running on recruiting. "

Quote :

". Lowe probably needs 5 years over other potential hires because of a lack of recruiting ties. If you look at coaches who came in and had success before year 5, they all could hit the ground running on recruiting. "

3/12/2009 11:59:45 PM

Quote :

"we haven't approved one bit since Lowe took over"

damn, there's some stupid up in here.

there's no doubt that this team played better than last year's.

we're not losing much next year*, the younger guys are stepping up, some good recruits are coming in


V

Quote :

"V V That's not saying much. I've seen pick-up teams in the gym who played better than our team last year. ** V V"

It's saying that we have improved. (See original quote)



[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 12:20 AM. Reason : *seniors **i'm sure you have]

3/13/2009 12:00:33 AM

god i hope we dont make anything. I just want the pain to end

3/13/2009 12:03:55 AM

god i hope we dont make anything. I just want the pain to end

3/13/2009 12:04:31 AM

Quote :

"there's no doubt that this team played better than last year's."

That's not saying much. I've seen pick-up teams in the gym who played better than our team last year.

3/13/2009 12:17:29 AM

i once caught a fish 50 feet long

3/13/2009 12:18:02 AM

Quote :

"yes the mother fucker is doing what he can with what he has. he is macguyvering the shit out of this team"

Next year the whole team will be his players so he and you can't use this excuse no more.

Quote :

"[quote]we haven't approved one bit since Lowe took over"

Quote :

"damn, there's some stupid up in here."

Umm we haven't gotten better since he took over.

Year one we had 20 wins and a decent ACCT and NIT run.

Last year we sucked ass. This year was slightly better.

3/13/2009 1:54:15 AM

half the point of the "there's some stupid" comment was because he said we haven't approved, when he meant we haven't improved

also its not lowe's fault that he recruited a very talented big and had to deal with a couple of the previous coach's bigs who pouted when a better player got playing time

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:01 AM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 1:55:48 AM

so it turns out mays only played because of disciplinary issues with degand.

so our best player in the game wouldn't have even seen the floor if it weren't for degand's stupidity (now it's off the court too)

wtf sid

3/13/2009 7:17:14 AM

State should of kept Herb

3/13/2009 7:46:24 AM

yes because they fired him

3/13/2009 8:01:25 AM

^^herb quit on us

cant say that i blame him though

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 8:04 AM. Reason : c]

3/13/2009 8:04:09 AM

somewhere in the midst of us losing all the time i came to the realization that in all actuality, its really just a game. i'd like to think that sometime before I die i'll get one or two national championships, and i think that's reasonable considering i'll probaby live another 65 years or so.

3/13/2009 8:17:44 AM

thankfully there is a long line of huge talent coaches that want to coach at ncsu

3/13/2009 8:23:03 AM

Quote :

"We want a dynasty now!"

3/13/2009 8:51:42 AM

here was a season long picture that my friend liked to keep updating. good laffs.

3/13/2009 8:55:27 AM

hahahahahahahaha


[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 8:57 AM. Reason : I, too, can post a Sid Lowe shop.]

3/13/2009 8:56:28 AM

Wow. For this team to lose to Maryland after the shit that vaskwez did to the team and the fans on NC State's home court is really embarrassing.

Our own team basically just sucker punched their entire fanbase.

I was extremely disappointed with this loss.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 9:55 AM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 9:54:58 AM

Costner and Fells really let the team down this game, seniors have to step up and make plays or sit down and let the young kids do it since they seem more interested.

Props to Ben though for being the lone senior who looks like he gives a fuck.

3/13/2009 10:07:05 AM

well, at least we get to watch UNC/Duke/Wake Forest play really good basketball for the rest of the month. Fuck our stupid ass "team"

3/13/2009 10:14:53 AM

Quote :

"Lowe probably needs 5 years over other potential hires because of a lack of recruiting ties."

GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE WITH THAT SHIT.

See you in year 10 of the Lowe regime?? No matter what??

3/13/2009 11:04:46 AM

jb, you normally post well but lately you have been blowing little things way out of proportion.



Clearly he meant Lowe deserves to get 5 years more than most hires would, not that he deserves 5 more than a guy with previous college recruiting ties would get.



Seriously though....if we hire one of our slam dunks on the list in Barnes or Cal, they bring in guys THAT YEAR who can help. You don't have guys like MJ, bartoz, Degand, Javi, CJ Williams (although CJ, Javi, and Julius I'm liking more and more). There is no down period in recruiting like we've had since 05 to 09. Sure, the 07 class was good, but that was more about going for the best available rather than trying to fit our needs (although we tried damn hard for wright).


So in other words, if we were performing like this with a proven college head coach, I'd be pissed off. We decided (or were forced) to go a different direction, and that cost us a few years in recruiting. Lowe targeted 09 as the year when they would be caught up with recruiting ties, lets see what happens. He doesn't get more than 5 IMO if we're still 6-10 after year 5...but I think we owe him the first 5 no matter what happens, and I think more importantly we will be worse off if we let him go before then.

3/13/2009 11:56:02 AM

^May have been blowing that out of proportion, but I think every coach should get at least 4 or 5 years. Because every time there's a coaching change there is a change of styles, there are players that leave and recruits that decommit, and in my opinion (unless you are UNC with the Doherty situation), you can't fire a coach after 3 or 4 years because it just makes you look HORRIBLE.

So I was just adding 5 years to that 4/5 years that I think every coach should get.

And I rarely ever go over to PP...but I liked this post in reference to yesterday's game:

Quote :

"Mays Good job! Now Sid you left me scratching my head again. Mays has only played 1 minute in the last eight games? Yet the most important game of the year you play him 24 mins, and Javi only 16? Mays is your leading scorer but only played 1 minute in the last 4 weeks? I really do think Sid is over his head now. Just like with Tracy Smith, it shouldnt have took 1/2 season the realize he needs to be on the floor."

3/13/2009 12:04:31 PM

that quote is accurate, but at the same time, Julius played a few really good games then laid a couple of eggs right after that. Maybe he started playing like garbage in practice. And to be fair, he lost time to Javi, who has been the bright spot for this team lately. Lowe said PT is based on how they played in practice, and Julius was getting out-played...I believe him.

3/13/2009 12:14:13 PM

Degand had been absolutely abysmal in games. We should have at least TRIED Mays in the last four games

3/13/2009 12:25:07 PM

^^I don't care about Javi taking his minutes...Javis is solid.

The fact that Degand took his minutes (and apparently would have played a lot yesterday if not for "disciplinary problems") baffles me.

Degand is only good for a quick change of pace. But he should be given the absolute RED FUCKING LIGHT shooting the ball if it's not a layup. I really hate to diss on players...but Degand is garbage. Mays is a shooter, and we've really needed those in the last few games. When we hit a zone or Smith is doubled and we start swinging the ball...the opposing team doesn't even bother to rotate defenders to Degand. They either let him miss a wide open three or wait for him to pass it to someone they actually remotely fear to shoot the ball...and there goes the wide open chance.

I understand the practice argument to a certain extent...but when you have someone who brings absolutely nothing to the table as Degand does, then I don't care if Julius Mays is punching his teammates in practice...he needs to get some minutes.

3/13/2009 1:49:45 PM

I think another problem is that Degand has shown flashes where he's been really good on both ends of the floor. The other side to that, is that his knee has been bothering him ever since the game after Wake, where he played great.

But I see what you're saying. I just don't think its as simple as it seems. I think Lowe is trying to do the right things, but its just not working for whatever reason....injuries, young/inconsistent play, inconsistent veteran play. You hope he could figure something out....I guess thats the problem the haters have with him, but unless you know whats going on behind closed doors, and have coaching experience yourself, I don't think this is a team where you can put the blame soley on the coach....which would be the only logical reason to fire him. There are a ton of factors working against him though.

3/13/2009 2:11:22 PM

Quote :

"I guess thats the problem the haters have with him, but unless you know whats going on behind closed doors, and have coaching experience yourself"

I use to always use that argument (used it with Herb all the time because everybody knew he was really fucking smart and knew basketball)...and I agree with it too. I know Sidney has more basketball knowledge in his pinky than I do in my whole body...but at the same time, some of the greatest basketball minds make some of the dumbest decisions/saying (if you listen to any basketball commentator who has been around the game the whole life and during the game you say "did he just say that? what a fucking retard!"). So someone like Sidney...who is no John Wooden by any means...can definitely make some bad decisions and still know basketball pretty well.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see if he can improve his coaching and the players we have coming in can fill our needs.

3/13/2009 2:15:32 PM

I don't think I've ever seen Degand show flashes at anything other than solo fast breaks against a young, undisciplined Wake Forest

He's completely useless in the half court and his defense isn't anything special either - he's just not as bad there as Mays because he's 6'3

3/13/2009 2:27:34 PM

^^oh I'm not saying he hasn't had some head scratchers. I just think that his job is made a lot more difficult because of the inconsistency he gets from his players. I think some of that will get better with the current crop of players because they play hard. I also think Lowe won't be left to make so many decisions when he has a team that he trusts on the floor. Thats his resonsibility to get that and put them in that position...we'll see if he can do it. We'll never find out if we fire him though.

3/13/2009 2:30:50 PM

Quote :

"I don't think I've ever seen Degand show flashes at anything other than solo fast breaks against a young, undisciplined Wake Forest"

Every now and then Degand will fly down the court and beat the defenders on a fast break or catch a good screen and get to the basket for a quick layup. Then you get all excited, and he negates it by having a couple dumb turnovers.

Javi and Mays both play at about the same pace and/or athletic ability. Neither one is going to take on a couple defenders and get fouled or make a tough basket in traffic (although Mays had a nice floater or two yesterday)...but honestly...neither is Degand. And even if he does do that every now and then...his deficiencies more than outweigh whatever he brings to the table. I'll admit that I got a little excited after our Big 10/ACC Challenge against Michigan State last year because he seemed to be the only one doing anything for us (he actually hit a three or two I think)...but he has done nothing that shows improvement since then, and I think his shot has even gotten worse.

I think the Degand experiment should be over. Let him get his free education and give us some good practice time.

3/13/2009 2:31:48 PM

From the Fire Sidney Lowe thread

Quote :

"Just because Lee Fowler is a fuckup for an AD doesn't mean we can't land a good coach."

Yes. yes, it does.

I refuse to call for Lowe's firing ever until that goober is no longer responsible for finding his replacement. The only way we can justifiably fire Lowe is if we fire Fowler first.

3/13/2009 2:40:02 PM

Degand also played really good D last year the whole time he was in, and his O picked up those last 4 games before he got hurt.


I dont disagree that he has sucked and its time for him to move on, but I want to blame the injury more than Degand himself. I really do think he had potential.

3/13/2009 2:40:10 PM

well, I definitely will agree

that if sid is fired, Fowler will be too.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:41 PM. Reason : heh, that made me lol]

3/13/2009 2:40:55 PM

Let's get a headstart for next year's excuses. We can finally put the "Herb's players" one to rest. What else can we add?

- Point Guard (got to keep the favorite one on top)
- Team is really young, wait till next year!
- He still doesn't have his players, the first recruiting class doesn't count!
- Herb got 10 years!
- Lee Fowler

3/13/2009 2:49:08 PM

jocristian

Yeah that was what I was trying to said. I should have worded it differently.

I was basically saying our coaching search was run by a goon. If we had a real AD we likely are not in the predicament we are in right now. A real AD knows how to run a coach search and not hire his consultant.

3/13/2009 2:49:43 PM

Quote :

"Let's get a headstart for next year's excuses."

You forgot

shitty, unrealistic "fans"

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 2:56 PM. Reason : ]

3/13/2009 2:56:11 PM

Right.

And also, "You don't know anything about basketball. This is improvement."

3/13/2009 2:59:22 PM

i just got off the phone with PackPride user "VForEver" and he let me know that if we fired Sid right now, we could land Mark Few from Gonzaga by next Wednesday at the latest! He said he was pumped about our tradition.

3/13/2009 2:59:26 PM

2010 we could start Harrow, Brown, Leslie, Howell, and Smith. I don't think most of you realize how good these guys are. Harrow, Brown, Leslie, and Howell all have VERY advanced skillsets for high school players, the former 3 have the athleticism and talent to play in the NBA, IMO. If for some implausible reason Lowe does not succeed in '10 and is fired we would still have an INSANE amount of talent on the roster and the job would be so much more attractive to candidates than it was 3 years ago. It's a WIN/WIN. I think Lowe should definitely be open to criticism at this point but it is shortsighted and ignorant to think that he should be fired now or after next season.

3/13/2009 3:00:56 PM

Last year we finished with a Pomeroy rating of 96. This year, right now, it's 78.



Improvement by the same amount next year would put us in a similar place to the spot BC, Maryland, and VT are in right now, in this year's ratings.

3/13/2009 3:08:19 PM

^Sweet. You think we can hang a Pomeroy banner one day!!!!!!

3/13/2009 3:23:02 PM

No. Not at all.


I'm just saying that if we improve by the same amount next year, that puts us on the area of the tourney bubble.

3/13/2009 3:32:38 PM

Quote :

"Last year we finished with a Pomeroy rating of 96. This year, right now, it's 78. Improvement by the same amount next year would put us in a similar place to the spot BC, Maryland, and VT are in right now, in this year's ratings."

Since you're citing Pomeroy's efficiency ratings, I think it's necessary to point out that we're losing 3 of our top 5 players per Pomeroy. I highly doubt we see that kind of improvement...

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 3:35 PM. Reason : x]

3/13/2009 3:35:29 PM

http://www.highschoolpomeroy.com


this official site rates Lorenzo Brown as #7 in the nation and Richard Howell as #11

3/13/2009 3:38:54 PM

I wasn't using the efficiency ratings, I was using the regular team ratings.

But while we're talking O ratings, we lost our top two from last year and got that much better this year. And the class we add this year is larger and supposed ot be better than last years.

[Edited on March 13, 2009 at 3:42 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2009 3:41:40 PM

^rational thinking is frowned upon.

3/13/2009 3:53:12 PM