Quote :

""Coach" Lowe"

what a douchebag you are.

3/17/2009 10:23:57 AM

Quote :

"I'm tired of people confusing expectations, with love of the school and this "loser" mentality you speak of. Because I'm logical enough to look at the team, realize we are what we are for the time being, and try to come to terms with that I'm a terrible fan? Is it better if I pretend that we have a national championship team every year, and bang my head against the wall screaming about how great we are while running around in my Thompson jersey? "

well said

Quote :

""The one thing that his supporters pointed out in his favor was his recruiting, and look at how that has turned out. Even then, he was gunning for one and done players and that doesn't build a team or a system for long term wins""

as has been stated, regardless of who we have missed out on, you can look at the 09 class as a ridiculously well planned and recruited class. "gunning" for top recruits and missing is only bad when you settle for scrubs. We took 3 guys who could have gone to any big school they wanted to, including Wood (ok not d00k, unc, or Kansas but you get the point).

Just think about how ridiculous it sounds for you to say this shit when we have a top 20 class already signed. None of them are "one and done", yet they all project as major contributors. And these days, you have to recruit those types of one and done players because you don't win championships without NBA talent on your roster. You jsut have to hope you have backups in place in case you miss (which we do) and that they are as good as advertised.

So keep shitting on this recruiting class. Keep shitting on coach Lowe. And when everyone is sucking his dick in 2 seasons for being such a good coach, recruiter, and dude in general, you can all eat a pile of shit.

3/17/2009 10:31:48 AM

^

3/17/2009 10:35:24 AM

My man Sidney may not turn out to be the coach we hope him to be but this statement

Quote :

"Coach K made a couple of adjustments mid season to his starting lineup with Sheyer and Paulus."

just shouldn't have been made.

You are comparing coaches as if the talent level is absolutely equal. Our best players, Fells, Cosnter and McCauley wouldn't even start for Duke. What do you think our other role players would be doing? That's right...giving reach arounds to the Blue Devil mascot.

The fact that we've been in so many games and had leads is a testament to the coaching. The fact that a little known freshman PG from Indiana (Julius Mays in case you just started following NCSU basketball) played our seniors under the table everytime he's on the court says something about not only the talent level but the attitude.

Look at Javi Gonzalez. He may never even make honorable mention ACC PG, but you can't deny where that kid has come from to where he's at. All of that is on Lowe.

I can't wait for the next 2 years when this program is turned around and some of you are new found Tarholes. FTW! I predict we only lose 4 games next year. hahaha

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 10:41 AM. Reason : props to javi]

3/17/2009 10:36:52 AM

Quote :

"And when everyone is sucking his dick in 2 seasons for being such a good coach, recruiter, and dude in general, you can all eat a pile of shit."

I'd love for that to be the case but I've seen very little in the last 3 years as evidence that any of that will happen.

It is hard to be excited about a recruiting class when Lowe hasn't shown he can develop players. Most seem to regress.

3/17/2009 10:47:52 AM

So, Mays, CJ, Javi, and Tracy haven't gotten any better since they've been here? They've in fact gotten worse?

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason : cause that is bullshit. and they'll be better next year. all isn't lost, assholes.]

3/17/2009 10:48:42 AM

Ah, here we go again, never the coaches fault, blame the players! 3 years of being last in the ACC.. let's blame the players!!!

Quote :

"The fact that a little known freshman PG from Indiana (Julius Mays in case you just started following NCSU basketball) played our seniors under the table everytime he's on the court says something about not only the talent level but the attitude."

Then why the fuck did Sidney Lowe bench him for 9 straight games?

Quote :

"The fact that we've been in so many games and had leads is a testament to the coaching"

you know what else is a testament to coaching, our win loss record over the past 3 years.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 10:54 AM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 10:48:59 AM

Quote :

"Bullet, oh no, you are putting words in people's mouths. I guess you only think in absolutes!!!1! "

I know. See how ridiculous you look?

3/17/2009 10:54:46 AM

Quote :

"So, Mays, CJ, Javi, and Tracy haven't gotten any better since they've been here? They've in fact gotten worse?"

I said most. Not all. And it's hard to say if Mays and CJ have progressed since they are Freshmen. We'll find out next year. Tracy and Javi have progressed but Degand, Horner, Fergie, and the seniors have gotten worse.

Plus you can't forget that we've missed the NIT for 2 straight years. There is nothing to say to defend that.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 10:57 AM. Reason : are]

3/17/2009 10:57:23 AM

Quote :

"I'd love for that to be the case but I've seen very little in the last 3 years as evidence that any of that will happen. It is hard to be excited about a recruiting class when Lowe hasn't shown he can develop players. Most seem to regress."

no, 3 have regressed. One because of an attitude problem, one because (maybe) of an injury during the off season last year (costner's leg), and Fells because he's just an athlete who can shoot in the first place without much BBall IQ.

I'd be damned if I said Horner, Tacy, CJ, Julius, JT, Javi, and those guys haven't improved. We dont know about farnold because he hasn't been healthy....you can't put that on Lowe. All I know is that Farnold played good D and didn't look like he was on ice skates last year before the injury, so I don't think we'll ever know how he could have been. Javi's improvement has been amazing though, and I'd like to think Lowe and Towe had something to do with it.


[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM. Reason : ts]

3/17/2009 10:57:30 AM

^ I think we can all agree that Horner and Fergie shouldn't be playing ACC basketball. They came in to this league as borderline ACC talent and are still borderline ACC talent. They have not progressed into ACC players.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 11:02 AM. Reason : ^]

3/17/2009 11:01:24 AM

saying Horner has not progressed this year is idiotic. Not saying he is starting material, but he's shown he is a solid backup at worst.

3/17/2009 11:07:26 AM

Oh hell, you've convinced me, wolfAApack. I'll soon be "sucking Lowe's dick off" despite the overwhelming evidence he isn't going to work out. I believe it, despite recruits de-committing, losing up to 3 upperclassmen next year, and our vast "improvement" of the other players which against all odds did not translate into wins. I believe it because some guy on the internet said I'd be sucking Lowe's dick in 2 seasons for how outstanding of a coaching job he is going to do, despite not having a single indication in the last three years that he is a good coach.

3/17/2009 11:09:32 AM

wow, this thread moves fast

this was my point from yesterday:

sid gets credit for the development this year of javi, horner, and tracy smith

but he also must then take the blame for the massive regressions of costner, fells, johnny thomas, degand, and ferguson. all of these players were better at the beginning of the year than at the end

3/17/2009 11:10:30 AM

^^ don't come argue on the internet and then act like you're above being argued with on the internet.

3/17/2009 11:16:30 AM

Quote :

"despite the overwhelming evidence he isn't going to work out"

you keep saying this...


yet provide underwhelming evidence or no evidence every time you post it.


Has sidney recruited a full team with a fair shot at landing guys (he's gotten 3 by my count who haven't even made it to campus yet) and lost with them? no

Has he taken a team that was worthy of being in the top tier of being in the ACC and made them bottom feeders? no

Has he been an embarassment to the university? no

You keep talking about this evidence. The only evidence you drop is the fact that we're not in the top of the league, and you can't go to games expecting to win this year. When in reality, 90 percent of our fans would argue that this is a ridiculous excuse to want him fired (after 3 years...after 5 of the same shit...you would have a point). Only idiots look at one side of the situation. You're doing a good job at proving one thing...that you're an idiot.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

3/17/2009 11:16:35 AM

Quote :

"Only idiots look at one side of the situation. You're doing a good job at proving one thing...that you're an idiot."

just like you only see that I'll be sucking Lowe's dick off in 2 years? That makes you a ... prophet?

We'll see who is an idiot once we fire this guy.. likely after a couple of lost years that we could be using to actually start building a program.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 11:28 AM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 11:27:13 AM

Quote :

"but he also must then take the blame for the massive regressions of costner, fells, johnny thomas, degand, and ferguson"

not sure how you can say johnny thomas has "massively regressed", he was injured all last year, and hardly got any playing time this season, which may or may not be due to the injury. And I also don't think it's accurate to say Fells and Costner have "massively regressed". Their entire careers have been highs and lows. But them, as well as ferguson and horner, aren't sid's recruits.

3/17/2009 11:30:56 AM

What kind of evidence are you looking for?

The results speak for themselves.

2006-2007 20-16 (5-11) T-10th
2007-2008 15-16 (4-12) 12th
2008-2009 16-14 (6-10) 10th
15-33 conference record

These aren't even mediocre results. Nobody is asking to be top of the ACC right now.

3/17/2009 11:31:28 AM

Quote :

"I'll soon be "sucking Lowe's dick off" despite the overwhelming evidence he isn't going to work out."

3 years in all the evidence we have pointing toward anything:

-year 1 we didn't have much talent, and some of the talent we had go hurt.
-sidney lowe has shown the ability to draw up successful end game plays that our players aren't always good enough/smart enough to finish on
-sidney lowe can effectively use fouls and timeouts to keep a lead at the end, assuming that his players can hit free throws (especially 85+% shooters)
-year 2's major problems were a lack of a PG, injuries, and certain players ego's getting hurt
-year 3 showed that lowe can take below average talent and compete with anyone, making games that no one think would be close (RE: Marquette, UNC, Duke, Wake, etc.) and putting us in a position to win those games
-year 3 along with the final stretch of year 1 showed Lowe knows how to use multiple defenses to confuse people and find a way to stop teams when you have maybe one and a half even average defenders.
-sidney lowe has shown he can adjust when things aren't working (re: big line-up)
-even though we didn't land cousins or favors, and probably won't get wall, and leslie decommitted, lowe has shown he can recruit. lo brown, howell, wood, harrow, and leslie are ballers. sid sold his nc state to 4/5 for good, and leslie still likes his nc state. we're in position for more top recruits than under previous coaches, eventually more of them sign

the things people find fault with are easily explained:
-substitution patterns: lack of solid talent, a lot of people with similar skills, positionless players, inconsistent performances from those who play, off-court issues, people being tired
-turnovers and offense that doesn't always work: inconsistent players, the lack of a good PG. when the players are playing well this offense is a thing of beauty, and what Lowe wants to get to when he has the guns, is even more attractive
-losing: you can't turn lead into gold
-motivation of players: there are times when they come out flat and times when they come out motivated. sometimes lowe has been able to take them from flat to motivated (BC, Duke games). motivation is a two way street.

3/17/2009 11:32:57 AM

Quote :

"Has he taken a team that was worthy of being in the top tier of being in the ACC and made them bottom feeders? no"

You could argue that last year's team fits this. Should have been top 5 in the ACC. Finished dead last.

Still, you can make all the arguments you want about the players not being his or injuries or whatever. But the results speak for themselves. Missing the NIT 2 years in a row is not acceptable in any situation.

If he can't coach his way into the NIT with average talent, what makes everyone so sure he can coach top-20 talent into the NCAAs? I just don't see it.

3/17/2009 11:37:11 AM

Quote :

"but he also must then take the blame for the massive regressions of costner, fells, johnny thomas, degand, and ferguson. all of these players were better at the beginning of the year than at the end"

False. Costner was not good at the start of the year, and started to come on. He is the same player he was his RS Freshman year, except he no longer looks to have all this potential. Fells also, didn't have the potential we thought he did. His ball handling improved, and there were points in the middle of the season where he was more consistent. He battled injuries all year, Sid didn't do that to him. Ferg was a bad player at the start of the year for anything but jumpshots. He's still a bad player that can hit jumpshots. Degand too, is the same injured player who won't always do what he is told.

Johnny Thomas has improved slightly. And you ignore Javi, Mays, CJ Williams, and Horner who you can all make strong arguments of improvement for.

Quote :

"You could argue that last year's team fits this. Should have been top 5 in the ACC. Finished dead last."

Why? It was a team with no heart and no -3 PGs. That's not the recipe for a top 5 ACC team.

3/17/2009 11:38:57 AM

^ They were predicted to be in the top of the conference. Grant predicted 4 loses.

Looking back there were some deficiencies that didn't become obvious till league play but you can't say that last year's team was anything but a dismal failure. They should have won a lot more than they did.

3/17/2009 11:47:46 AM

Are you going to blame Lowe for people unrealistically thinking that they could be so good without a PG, and the only thing they had that looked close to a PG tearing his ACL?

You could maybe blame him for allowing Grant to publicly state that they'll lose no more than 4 games that year, but I'll not blame him or Grant for thinking they're a good team (as you should think you're a good team otherwise you'll win even fewer games)

3/17/2009 11:50:56 AM

OhBoyeee is trolling the shit out of some of you

3/17/2009 12:08:51 PM

vonjordan, you're a 10/10 poster and all, but i was hoping you could post something i could argue about

3/17/2009 12:10:06 PM

BigEgo, it is truly amazing how you are so optimistic regarding the future of our basketball program under Lowe, and the bullshit passes you still give him after being the worst team in the league since he got here (3 years).

3/17/2009 12:11:50 PM

i was done with this thread back when it was in the page 50 area

lol

3/17/2009 12:23:21 PM

I'll agree that our backups have improved.

Tracy obviously being inserted into the starting lineup and being mostly a consistent scoring threat down low.

Javi dropping almost 20 at UNC - nuff said. He needs to work on assist to TO ratio.

Julius won the Miami game and put double digits up on Maryland - he will improve more with PT, coach just needs to bench Degand and give Mays a chance.

Johnny barely played this season. He should be given more looks next year.

3/17/2009 1:06:55 PM

Quote :

"Are you going to blame Lowe for people unrealistically thinking that they could be so good without a PG, and the only thing they had that looked close to a PG tearing his ACL?"

It wasn't delusional NC State fans predicting a top-half finish for us... it was experts, media, fans, EVERYBODY

I understand you're supportive of Lowe and all but you need to chill the fuck out on defending everything - we did not meet expectations last year, just admit it. Is it worth firing him over? Of course not, but stop acting like he's done a good job.

3/17/2009 1:14:08 PM

^thats been a point of mine all along. We suck, but its not worth firing him over. In addition, you have to look at the fact that the main cause of last years problem was Degand being hurt in the middle of the season and Javi not being ready to take over b/c he was hurt early in the season.
Then there's Gavin being a cock sucker and McCauley being a bitch.....thats not all on Lowe.

Quote :

"Still, you can make all the arguments you want about the players not being his or injuries or whatever. But the results speak for themselves. Missing the NIT 2 years in a row is not acceptable in any situation."

I still don't understand why you think he should be fired. I don't think anyone is arguing that our performance is acceptable. We just don't understand why you faggots want to fire a guy who didn't cause us to be this bad. Was he unable to make us a whole lot better over the last 3 years? yep. Is that all on him? no.


If this were year 5, and we haven't been to the tournament, and we're still hanging in the bottom 3 in the league, he needs to get the fuck out of town. Until then, he's playing with a combination of desperation recruits AND herb leftovers.

It just doesn't make any fucking sense. Some of you are trolling, and i get that. The problem is that I know a few people like you in real life who are just plain dumb, don't know shit about how this game works on and off the floor, yet still think you have a god given right to voice your dumb, irrational, and damaging opinions in public.

Once again, its year 3 of a team taken over with 6 scholarship players by a guy with no previous recruiting ties who has done his best to find players who can at least stabilize the situation...and dealt with injuries to several of them incuding both first year point guards from his second season.


We'd all be a lot better off if you would just say "yeah I see that but I'm an inpatient bitch and I want to fire everyone who doesn't win championships in year 1 because I think this is the NBA we're talking about, not 18-21 year olds"

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 1:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2009 1:23:49 PM

jesus christ, lock this shit already. don't you idiots realize how fucked we'll be if we run off another coach? even if he doesn't get the job done, we don't have to be douche bags.

3/17/2009 1:30:20 PM

oh wow. heaven forbid people have an opinion about Lowe that differs from yours. Lock up any thread that violates this and throw them in the bog of eternal stench

3/17/2009 1:36:39 PM

Quote :

"The problem is that I know a few people like you in real life who are just plain dumb, don't know shit about how this game works on and off the floor, yet still think you have a god given right to voice your dumb, irrational, and damaging opinions in public."

Don't you come in this thread all barrel chested on your high horse. You obviously don't know shit for priding yourself on supporting a coach who has for the past 3 years managed to put together teams so bad that we've been THE WORST team in the ACC during his tenure.

3/17/2009 1:38:38 PM

bottom line
we are not seeing the performance we expect.

However, to be fair he needs 4 years AT LEAST to get players into his program and get his way of doing things some time to develop.

Hopefully next year we will rise from the ashes of unimportance

3/17/2009 1:39:11 PM

Quote :

"We'd all be a lot better off if you would just say "yeah I see that but I'm an inpatient bitch and I want to fire everyone who doesn't win championships in year 1 because I think this is the NBA we're talking about, not 18-21 year olds" "

Nobody called for him to win a national championship in his first year, nor did they in his 2nd or 3rd year. I think a lot of people were calling for us to be out of the bottom of the ACC by the 3rd year though. But obviously I don't get that and you do since you declared yourself to know how this game works on and off the floor.. I just didn't realize it's the norm for all great coaches to have produced the worst team in their league over their 3 year tenure, but hey, I'm not in the know like you.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 1:49 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 1:45:53 PM

this is ridiculous


i've fed the troll too much


its just the fact that this thread is still around going in the same circles that bothers me.


(and don't fucking say "oh so we should lock any thread where people don't agree with you" because I didn't say that. Its that the people who are disagreeing aren't using logic to argue)

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 1:48 PM. Reason : ]

3/17/2009 1:48:03 PM

So if we fire Lowe, OhBoyeee, who do we get to coach? (no troll, just trying to figure out what you think. since all you say is "fire lowe".)

3/17/2009 1:54:20 PM

We could try Sean Miller. I think in 3 years he could pull us from the bottom of the ACC.

He used to be an assistant at NC State I think.

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 1:55:27 PM

Someone who isn't afraid of an irrational fanbase, I guess

3/17/2009 1:55:51 PM

yes, just checked, Miller was an NC State assistant.

past COLLEGE EXPERIENCE as a HEAD COACH @ Xavier:

2004–2005: 17-12 10-6 T-2nd (West)
2005–2006: 21-11 8-8 T-7th NCAA 1st Round
2006–2007: 25-9 13-3 T-1st NCAA 2nd Round
2007–2008: 30-7 14-2 1st NCAA Elite Eight
2008–2009: 22-4 (still in progress)


[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 2:01 PM. Reason : []

3/17/2009 2:00:04 PM

I bet Sean talks to Archie and Herb a lot

3/17/2009 2:01:00 PM

Quote :

"yes, just checked, Miller was an NC State assistant."

you sure are a bastion of nc state basketball knowledge.

3/17/2009 2:13:05 PM

^^

Quote :

"I bet Sean talks to Archie and Herb a lot"

maybe he does, maybe he doesn't...but unless you're omniscient then you have no idea if he shares the perception of Sendek leaving that many "State fans" on here have

^lulz, he's obviously an idiot

[Edited on March 17, 2009 at 2:14 PM. Reason : .]

3/17/2009 2:13:27 PM

Quote :

"many "State fans" on here"

So, I'm not a "real fan" now?

3/17/2009 2:16:53 PM

I think most of, if not all, of the people on here that share that perception of us running off Sendek show much more allegiance to Sendek than they do to State, ever looked at the ASU thread? There's alot of "us" and "we" in reference to ASU even though none of them go there.

3/17/2009 2:21:27 PM

I'd be more optimistic about our future if we had Sean Miller than Lowe. Fowler should look into that shit.. put out some feelers or something, but he won't because he is a fucking moron.

3/17/2009 2:22:14 PM

I might become a Tarheels fan. I mean, I have no affiliation whatsoever with the university, but I mean, State bball sucks, so I might as well jump off the bandwagon of my own school and pull for some random school that I have no ties to...after all, they're currently doing better than us in basketball, and I like to cheer for winning teams! So what if I went to State, graduated from State, etc. Its all about who is winning games right now!!1

3/17/2009 2:25:36 PM

Quote :

"I'd be more optimistic about our future if we had Sean Miller than Lowe. Fowler should look into that shit.. put out some feelers or something, but he won't because he is a fucking moron."

I think we all would be much more optimistic about our future if we had Sean Miller, I'd be more optimistic about football if Urban Meyer was our coach but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. Also I doubt a coach would talk to another school when they're preparing for the Tournament so really it's a moot point at least until after the Tournament is over or Xavier gets knocked out.

3/17/2009 2:26:11 PM

Quote :

"I think most of, if not all, of the people on here that share that perception of us running off Sendek show much more allegiance to Sendek than they do to State, ever looked at the ASU thread? There's alot of "us" and "we" in reference to ASU even though none of them go there."

There are maybe three people who post in that thread on a regular basis. 99% of it is ncstatetke trolling the shit out of people.

I don't know anyone who really shows more allegiance to Sendek than State. I think he was a good coach, not a great coach, that probably hit his ceiling. It wasn't quite yet time for him to go, but it wasn't cool to treat him like shit either. There's nothing wrong with liking Herb and being an NC State supporter; the two are not mutually exclusive.

There, I've now taken this thread through another complete cycle.

3/17/2009 2:27:20 PM