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[Edited on November 5, 2006 at 10:38 PM. Reason : .] 11/5/2006 10:30:58 PM |
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[Edited on November 5, 2006 at 10:37 PM. Reason : .] 11/5/2006 10:31:22 PM |
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[Edited on November 5, 2006 at 10:36 PM. Reason : .] 11/5/2006 10:32:00 PM |
PinkandBlack Suspended 10517 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "State Improv Community" |
HA!
Quote : | "Triangle Church Campus Ministry" |
Cult11/5/2006 10:42:37 PM |
Fry The Stubby 7784 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | " Nothing says "coming together" quite like starting a center devoted making certain groups stand out.
" |
11/5/2006 10:45:21 PM |
Supplanter supple anteater 21831 Posts user info edit post |
There are hundreds of clubs, organizations, and interest groups. The majority of the campus "stands out." 11/5/2006 10:55:26 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Let me point out the ones that shouldn't receive student fee funding:
Adventist Christian Fellowship Religious/Spiritual African American Design Student Association African American Heritage Society Ethnic/Multicultural African American Science and Health Society College/ Departmental/ Academic African American Textile Society Ethnic/Multicultural African Student Union Ethnic/Multicultural Afrikan-American Student Advisory Council Special Interest All-Girl Cheerleading Club Religious/Spiritual American Indian Science & Engineering Society Anno Domini Asian Fraternity Interest Group Asian Students Association Association for the Concerns of African-American Graduate Students Bahai Club Bangladesh Student Association Baptist Student Union Bisexuals, Gay, Lesbians and Allies Black Finesse Modeling Troupe Black Repertory Theater Brooks Campus Ministry Campus Christian Fellowship Campus Crusade for Christ Campus Revelation Caribbean Students Association Catholic Campus Ministry Charisma Campus Ministry Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship Chinese Club Chinese Student & Scholars Friendship Assoc. Christian Science Organization Christian Veterinary Fellowship Christians On Campus
I didn't finish the list, I did A-C, but you should get a clear picture. We shouldn't be funding clubs that separate by gender, sexual orientation, creed, ethnicity, or race. That just isn't right to use student funds to separate us. Do you think an atheist would be comfortably allowed into "Christians on Campus" or a male would be comfortably allowed in the "All-Girls Cheerleading Club" <~~Which earns the title for "most exclusive sounding club on campus"
Do you think "All-Male Businessmen Club" would slide unnoticed? No it wouldn't, nor should it be allowed to. 11/6/2006 7:43:11 AM |
Perlith All American 7620 Posts user info edit post |
^ I haven't through the individual organization's on that list, however, WHERE does it state in ANY of their constitutions/bylaws (which they are required to have to register themselves every year as a student organization) the inclusion or exclusion or any member of any "group"? Being "comfortable" is irrelevant. Your arguments are weak and based on opinion, not facts or research. You are repeating yourself and not winning over any additional support. Provide us with something new and more concrete or let this thread die. 11/6/2006 8:44:19 AM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
I'll stop responding when you guys do.
Anyway, it doesn't say they are exclusive in their by-laws. But, as I have said before (and has yet to be refuted) a "Niggers-Not Welcome" club doesn't have to have exclusivity in its bylaws to make it as such.
Can you really defend the "All-Girls Cheerleading" Club as not being exclusive to girls? Even if they will technically not kick you out for coming with a penis, they certainly aren't welcoming you into their club. 11/6/2006 9:01:59 AM |
Supplanter supple anteater 21831 Posts user info edit post |
At the very least you can agree that until dozens of other clubs are removed that the LGBT has equal right to exist? 11/6/2006 9:12:59 AM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Well, I don't deny its right to exist. I think its a good club. What I deny is its right to be funded with student fees. Do I think that means that they should fund it, simply because they're wasting money already? Hell no. That's a silly reason to do it.
If its wrong to fund it, it is wrong to fund it.
I will say this: There are plenty of other clubs that suck worse (for aforementioned reasons) that should be cut immediately. The others should be weened off student fee aid until they aren't using it either. Although none of the segmentationist (I know not a word, but you get it) clubs deserve student fee funding, if we were to do a scale of closeness to deserving it, LGBT Center would be infinity times more deserving than most of those clubs. 11/6/2006 9:31:20 AM |
Ronny All American 30652 Posts user info edit post |
Maybe you all missed the memo, or the column in the Technician, but no one ever said that it would be funded with student fees.
That rumor is wrong. 11/6/2006 9:37:13 AM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Well I surely did miss the memo and I don't read the technician (the fuckers won't deliever it 500 miles away (Lloyd Christmas face)) What will be funding it? 11/6/2006 9:38:25 AM |
e30ncsu Suspended 1879 Posts user info edit post |
where is the 11 page thread for the womens center getting more room? 11/7/2006 1:23:56 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Start a thread and I'll be there to bitch about it (assuming we're paying for it)
But until then, GTFO of here with diverting attention. Your tactic was tried like 4 pages ago. 11/7/2006 1:34:39 PM |
e30ncsu Suspended 1879 Posts user info edit post |
except that them getting more space is [new] you troll
[Edited on November 7, 2006 at 1:36 PM. Reason : read the paper] 11/7/2006 1:36:22 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
I don't read the technician, they don't deliver it to Charleston, and also it's a shitty paper anyhow.
AND: The fact that I didn't make a thread to bitch about this subject might indicate why I didn't make one to bitch about another waste of student fees. 11/7/2006 2:12:56 PM |
rred2000 Starting Lineup 89 Posts user info edit post |
welcome to the real world bitches, complain all you want, University Administration doesnt give a fuck what you think?
oh yeah, dumbfuck
http://www.technicianonline.com/ 11/7/2006 2:55:58 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Was there a question in there or just errant punctuation? 11/7/2006 3:10:10 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Ok, here's my outrage:
The group discriminates based on gender, and shouldn't receive any student fees. If they want the room in Talley, they should have to rent it using private donations and/or fundraising proceeds.
Do I need to make a new thread for it, or can we simply use this thread to lambast all wastes of student fees and univeristy resources? 11/7/2006 3:13:00 PM |
BridgetSPK #1 Sir Purr Fan 31378 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "bgmims: Well, I don't deny its right to exist. I think its a good club. What I deny is its right to be funded with student fees. Do I think that means that they should fund it, simply because they're wasting money already? Hell no. That's a silly reason to do it.
If its wrong to fund it, it is wrong to fund it." |
So let me get this straight...you want to change the precedent so the homos can't get their student fee-funded office.
I hate that shit. They do everything right and follow the rules that everybody else has to get what they need, but once they actually get something, you want to change the rules on them.
BULLSHIT.11/7/2006 3:24:34 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "I hate that shit. They do everything right and follow the rules that everybody else has to get what they need, but once they actually get something, you want to change the rules on them. " |
No one asked me when they made the rules. And I assure you I've wanted the rules since I got to college and found out they had segmented centers and clubs.
If it isn't legal for me to discriminate for a job based on it, it shouldn't be legal to use student fees to fund a club or center based on it. Don't like my position? Welcome to America, that's totally allowed and welcome.
But you have got to stop being such a heinous cunt just because you don't like me.
__ And who knew you were such a fan of the status quo? No changes in policy, because someone was counting on them already.
[Edited on November 7, 2006 at 5:14 PM. Reason : ps]11/7/2006 5:12:34 PM |
Fry The Stubby 7784 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "If it isn't legal for me to discriminate for a job based on it, it shouldn't be legal to use student fees to fund a club or center based on it" |
good point.11/7/2006 5:17:26 PM |
JonHGuth Suspended 39171 Posts user info edit post |
those groups are not discriminating, they are encouraging equality
and thats ok in the workplace 11/7/2006 5:24:40 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Really? You agree with that? Awesome.
Well in that case I need to make a quick disclaimer. Right now it is legal in some places in the U.S. to discriminate based on sexual preference. They badly need to changefederal laws to include it (it is so backwards that it isn't already).
So, I guess until they fix that, I have to let this specific center slide. But on the basis of fairness, I include it because sexual preference very well should be illegal to discriminate on for a job. 11/7/2006 5:25:54 PM |
Fry The Stubby 7784 Posts user info edit post |
yea, "be equal with me, pay for my group!" 11/7/2006 5:26:17 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "those groups are not discriminating, they are encouraging equality " |
I fired the white guy because we needed an equal number of blacks and whites. I'm encouraging equality.
Jon, I know we disagree on whether or not the club is discriminatory. I still say that it is and on that basis, I oppose its funding. I acknowledge our difference of opinion though.11/7/2006 5:27:29 PM |
JonHGuth Suspended 39171 Posts user info edit post |
i pass "lady's fitness" on the way to work every day, im pretty sure its operating legally 11/7/2006 5:27:47 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Well, then you should complain. Hooters has been sued for it before.
Although, my guess is that being female is the only way to adequately work there, in which case it isn't discrimination, but part of the job description. 11/7/2006 5:32:06 PM |
JonHGuth Suspended 39171 Posts user info edit post |
thats really the counter-argument you are going with? 11/7/2006 5:46:16 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
No, its the counter-argument that corporations go with when they are sued for job discrimination.
Being non-female interferes with their ability to perform the job. Therefore, a reasonable accomodation cannot be made for non-female workers and they are not discriminating based on it.
That's the reason mentally handicapped people aren't hired at NASA. No reasonable accomodation can be made such that they could do the job correctly. 11/7/2006 5:49:07 PM |
suamme1 All American 6834 Posts user info edit post |
First off, if you're going to argue, please make sure you know what the fuck you're arguing about. I've mentioned that in this thread before, but apparently some people just never learn.
Quote : | "We shouldn't be funding clubs that separate by gender, sexual orientation, creed, ethnicity, or race. That just isn't right to use student funds to separate us." |
First, Bisexuals, Gays, Lesbians, and Allies (one of the clubs in bgmims's list) definitely does not apply here. Directly from http://www.ncsu.edu/safe/bgla/index.htm is the goals of BGLA.
Quote : | "Bisexuals, Gay Men, Lesbians and Allies serves the bisexual, gay, lesbian, transgender and allied community of NC State as well as be a vehicle for education for the campus community. The group is open to all students, faculty, and staff of NC State regardless of sexual orientation.
The mandates of the group are three-fold:
* Provide a supportive environment for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered members of the NC State University community. * Provide education to group members as well as outreach to the campus at large on issues regarding sexual orientation and the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trangender community. * Provide a vehicle for activism and positive social change on campus regarding issues of sexual orientation and the lesbian, gay, transgender and bisexual community. " |
And, in case you're wondering, in the LGBT community, the term ally refers to people who are heterosexual but support gay rights. So, the only group of people who are not specifically mentioned by name in the name of the group are those that oppose gay rights. These people are certainly welcome and encouraged to come to events sponsored by BGLA.
Here is what gets me really annoyed:
Quote : | "At the very least you can agree that until dozens of other clubs are removed that the LGBT has equal right to exist?" |
Quote : | "Well, I don't deny its right to exist. I think its a good club." |
What people can't seem to understand here is that LGBT is not a club. It is a group of people representing approximately 10 percent of the population. So, in fact the sentence above is saying "you can agree that until dozens of clubs are removed the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trangendered people have a right to exist"
Please get your facts straight. BGLA is the name of a club on campus, LGBT simply stands for all people who are Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Transgendered. The LGBT Center has NOTHING at all to do with BGLA except that they have similar goals and a few people in common. BGLA is a club, the LGBT Center Proposal is essentially a part of Student Affairs.
[Edited on November 7, 2006 at 5:54 PM. Reason : keyboard battery died]11/7/2006 5:52:21 PM |
JonHGuth Suspended 39171 Posts user info edit post |
you said:
Quote : | "If it isn't legal for me to discriminate for a job based on it, it shouldn't be legal to use student fees to fund a club or center based on it." |
i said:
Quote : | "i pass "lady's fitness" on the way to work every day, im pretty sure its operating legally" |
i could have used countless businesses that mention gender by name
[Edited on November 7, 2006 at 5:53 PM. Reason : maybe my point just went above your head]11/7/2006 5:52:22 PM |
V0LC0M All American 21263 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
Quote : | "This is not where student funding needs to go" |
11/7/2006 7:42:35 PM |
e30ncsu Suspended 1879 Posts user info edit post |
pasting stuff a lot makes it true 11/7/2006 7:47:57 PM |
V0LC0M All American 21263 Posts user info edit post |
indeed it does 11/7/2006 7:49:30 PM |
e30ncsu Suspended 1879 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
Quote : | "VOLCOM LIKES PENISES IN HIS MOUTH" |
11/7/2006 7:50:46 PM |
BridgetSPK #1 Sir Purr Fan 31378 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "bgmims: If it isn't legal for me to discriminate for a job based on it, it shouldn't be legal to use student fees to fund a club or center based on it. Don't like my position? Welcome to America, that's totally allowed and welcome." |
Your first sentence is one giant leap in logic.
Your second and third sentences are superfluous, considering this entire discussion is predicated on a difference in opinion.
Quote : | "bgmims: And who knew you were such a fan of the status quo? No changes in policy, because someone was counting on them already." |
This is a ridculous argument. You can't box me in as always supporting change or never supporting change. Sometimes I do; sometimes I don't. Pretty simple stuff here.
Quote : | "bgmims: But you have got to stop being such a heinous cunt just because you don't like me." |
1. I don't have to stop doing anything. 2. You're calling me a "heinous cunt," but I'm the one who doesn't like you?11/7/2006 8:45:52 PM |
Supplanter supple anteater 21831 Posts user info edit post |
Atleast the controversy is creating constant enough conversation and publicity about it that everyone on campus will know of it by word of mouth, or the technician, or local news somewhat, or tdub etc. So once it becomes an accepted piece of the massive bureaucracy that is ncsu, all the students and community who wish to use it should know plenty about it. 11/7/2006 9:10:34 PM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "i could have used countless businesses that mention gender by name " |
Maybe the difference between public funding and private enterprise passed over yours.11/8/2006 8:28:25 AM |
Supplanter supple anteater 21831 Posts user info edit post |
Things have gone quiet. Does that mean people have accepted this place, or just said all they have to say? 11/26/2006 11:21:21 AM |
Shivan Bird Football time 11094 Posts user info edit post |
I guess they remembered that nobody listens to them anyways. 11/26/2006 11:34:18 AM |
Perlith All American 7620 Posts user info edit post |
Legitimate/decent arguments stopped a couple of pages back in this thread. And in general, the issues of today are forgotten tomorrow unless its a really pressing/prevalent issue. 11/27/2006 3:01:13 AM |
Supplanter supple anteater 21831 Posts user info edit post |
http://www.technicianonline.com/media/storage/paper848/news/2006/12/06/News/Town-Hall.Meeting.To.Discuss.Lgbt.Center.Proposal-2523734.shtml?norewrite200612062057&sourcedomain=www.technicianonline.com
Quote : | ""The town hall meeting is really just an open forum," Picart said. "It's not a decision-making event. It is a public discussion, debate and question-answer period." ... William Swallow, professor and director of undergraduate programs in statistics, proposed an LGBT Center on campus to change these experiences of the LGBT community.
"This is the group that is probably the most pressed in the sense that it seems to still be OK to make rude remarks to them and so forth," Swallow said. "[The Center] provides a number of functions where the LGBT population on campus will see this as a safe space they can go and be guaranteed to be accepted as who they are."
Picart said there are students for and against the creation of an LGBT Center on campus.
"There are some students on campus who don't want this because they don't like gay people or because they think the cost of the center will be paid for out of students fees or that we will build a separate building [for the Center]," Picart said.
However, according to Picart and Swallow, those are two pieces of misinformation. The LGBT Center proposal does not recommend the construction of a new and separate building, nor does it recommend the LGBT Center to be funded by increasing student fees. ... "If the University is making a statement about racial and gender diversity in the nondiscrimination clause, then they need to follow up with it by creating an office like Women's Center and African American Cultural Center," Morris said. "It is a much-needed addition to campus. There is a lack of information on campus about LGBT concerns and the Center could address those concerns through programs."
" |
http://www.technicianonline.com/media/storage/paper848/news/2006/12/06/Viewpoint/Show-Up.Speak.Out-2524162.shtml?norewrite200612062103&sourcedomain=www.technicianonline.com
"It seems Internet users are getting more and more adept at hiding behind their online presence."
[Edited on December 6, 2006 at 9:05 PM. Reason : .]12/6/2006 9:02:31 PM |
Pyro Suspended 4836 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | "I don't deny its right to exist. I think its a good club. What I deny is its right to be funded with student fees. Do I think that means that they should fund it, simply because they're wasting money already? Hell no. That's a silly reason to do it. " |
Agreed. And student fees=taxes=whatever name you want to call it
The precedent of funding exclusive and religious groups is wrong and should be corrected immediately across the board. This has been my stand on the issue for many years, as you will clearly see in my post history on this very website.12/6/2006 9:58:04 PM |
JonHGuth Suspended 39171 Posts user info edit post |
It wouldnt be an exclusive center 12/7/2006 7:02:51 AM |
bgmims All American 5895 Posts user info edit post |
I'm done with this whole situation, but I do have to come in and respond to this:
Quote : | ""There are some students on campus who don't want this because they don't like gay people or because they think the cost of the center will be paid for out of students fees or that we will build a separate building [for the Center]," Picart said.
However, according to Picart and Swallow, those are two pieces of misinformation. The LGBT Center proposal does not recommend the construction of a new and separate building, nor does it recommend the LGBT Center to be funded by increasing student fees. " |
Misinformation? Well, "they think the cost of the center will be paid for out of student fees" = "funded by increasing student fees"
They totally dodged the question. The question on students' minds are "Will this center use student fees?" The answer to that is not "No, it will not cause student fees to increase"
Christ I hate the technician. Worst fucking reporters on the planet. My high school paper was better than these fucking amateurs. Probably why all those writers and editors went to UNC instead.12/7/2006 8:25:48 AM |
marko Tom Joad 72828 Posts user info edit post |
Of course they went to UNC.
UNC has a journalism school.
Half of Technician's writers are in CALS or Engineering. 12/7/2006 5:20:31 PM |
Kay_Yow All American 6858 Posts user info edit post |
tinyurl, people, tinyurl. 12/8/2006 1:30:00 AM |
Jere Suspended 4838 Posts user info edit post |
Quote : | ""They're pushing so hard for a gay center, when are they going to push for a Christian center?" McNeill said." |
Jesus, this is so fucking stupid.12/8/2006 2:34:29 AM |