ok first of all 32mb was being sarcastic since the full blown iPhone is as small as 4gb. So my point was that making a lesser capacity iphone nano would be a waste. Also if its called an iphone nano then its an iphone nano. If you want to be a smartass about it then the iPhone is just a iPod next gen with phone capabilities added on.

7/11/2007 4:04:27 PM

7/11/2007 4:12:29 PM

do what now?

7/11/2007 4:24:19 PM

Quote :

"i meant there's a price/performance point in which it's cost effective enough to where they can provide some of the best storage capacities in the market and still make a profit "

They put a pitiful amount of storage in a device they knew people would buy just because. They knew there are a large number of people who like to pay for expensive electronics the day they come out. I cant imagine they arnt making tons on every phone sold.

7/11/2007 7:28:10 PM

yea, hate to break it to you, but the difference between an 8gig nand chip and a 16 or 32gig nand chip isn't that big.

7/11/2007 7:38:08 PM

i wasn't talking about the difference between 8gb and 16gb flash, i was talking about the price difference between flash and compact hdd's

7/11/2007 8:00:03 PM

In your own pricelist, the cost between 8gb and 16 gb nearly doubles.

An 8 dollar increase over each batch of 10,000 units ordered is huge. If you've ever sat in a vendor meeting instead of writing web pages your entire life you'd know this.

7/12/2007 1:31:33 PM

I hate to post this again so soon but...

7/12/2007 2:46:05 PM

Quote :

"In your own pricelist, the cost between 8gb and 16 gb nearly doubles. An 8 dollar increase over each batch of 10,000 units ordered is huge. If you've ever sat in a vendor meeting instead of writing web pages your entire life you'd know this."

sure it's $8, but they would charge $50-$100 more for it, thus a small $8 material fee would equate to be a $42+ increase in profit per unit (~84% profit)

i don't think you can make the same comparison with hard drive based players where the drives are more than a mere 16% of cost difference, for instance the difference to go from 60gb to 80gb for a 1.8" hard drive might be +$50 whereas they can only charge ~$100 more... i highly doubt they are getting 84% more for the 80gb version but what the hell do i know.

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 4:08:05 PM

A compact HDD is a stupid idea for the iPhone. Think of the difference in failure rates between compact HDDs and flash for a device that's going to be prone to frequent shocks. Massive storage is nice, but not if you have to service your phone every 3 months.

7/12/2007 4:38:05 PM

^i concur, i can't stand hdd based mp3 based players, no reason to use it in an iphone anyways... if you need more than 8gb, buy a video ipod, the iphone is for phone use primarily, then media, not the other way around.

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 5:16 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 5:16:31 PM

When are we gonna be able to download some ringtones for this thing off of iTunes? If I have to hear "Marimba" one more time I'm gonna shoot myself

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 5:17 PM. Reason : ]

7/12/2007 5:16:48 PM

the fact that you can't create ringtones from mp3s already on the device is a deal breaker for me, purely on principal.

7/12/2007 5:20:35 PM

apple will almost certainly add support in the next few months.

in the meantime there's
http://www.tuaw.com/2007/07/11/iphone-hackery-milestone-custom-ringtones/

7/12/2007 5:22:35 PM

Quote :

" sure it's $8, but they would charge $50-$100 more for it, thus a small $8 material fee would equate to be a $42+ increase in profit per unit (~84% profit) "

Except thats not at all how marketing and finance work.

Quote :

" i don't think you can make the same comparison with hard drive based players where the drives are more than a mere 16% of cost difference, for instance the difference to go from 60gb to 80gb for a 1.8" hard drive might be +$50 whereas they can only charge ~$100 more... i highly doubt they are getting 84% more for the 80gb version but what the hell do i know. "

Quit with the HDD shit already. There's more technical stuff related to the HDD causing interference with the Radio, FCC regulations, and power issues that makes this impractical rather then cost.

7/12/2007 5:25:53 PM

Quote :

"Except thats not at all how marketing and finance work."

Then, by all means, feel free to explain it to us mere mortals.

7/12/2007 5:36:51 PM

Quote :

"Except thats not at all how marketing and finance work."

i fail to see how there would be any other additional costs for swapping out a flash drive... they can charge that much because of demand for a specific range of storage, sure they have focus groups that help determine how much they can sell stuff for, but I guarantee you that they are an indirect comparison to cogs, it is what it is, the demand is there and the prices are reflected on apple's website, thus you can get a good estimate

nuff said, as you keenly pointed out there are a lot more reasons why hdd's are infeasible for the iphone.

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 5:58 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 5:56:53 PM

Quote :

"In your own pricelist, the cost between 8gb and 16 gb nearly doubles. An 8 dollar increase over each batch of 10,000 units ordered is huge. If you've ever sat in a vendor meeting instead of writing web pages your entire life you'd know this."

You may not know this, but I haven't been in web development for the last three years.

And I'm fully aware of how marketing and finance work. I know WHY they cost the 4/8 models. My point was it has nothing to do with the actual cost of the component, and a hell of a lot more to do with keeping the iphone positioned below the iPod and ensuring they will be able to price drop or maintain for gen2, keeping plenty of margin space in the product for the future.

The point is, bigger capacities are coming, and will be either the same level price, or at a discount. They are following the same lines the ipod did and are probably going to have another repeat run of 3-5 years of yearly hardware updated offerings.

[Edited on July 12, 2007 at 9:11 PM. Reason : .]

7/12/2007 9:10:35 PM

does crabtree have any left? On another unrelated note I reccomend not falling asleep on the beach close enough for the tide to come in and get your phone wet before waking you up

7/13/2007 9:40:17 AM

oops

7/13/2007 9:59:49 AM

^^ Ok, Better.

7/13/2007 11:23:10 AM

http://tinyurl.com/2b7cbf

7/25/2007 2:47:25 PM

^
1) wait until Apple reports on how many iPhones were sold, not how many were activated
2) wait until we get a little more data than 1.25 days of sales

keep in mind that the iPhone went on sale on Friday June 29 at 6PM. AT&T and Apple's quarter's ended on Saturday June 30, presumably at midnight. So there were 146,000 phones activated in the first 30 hours of sales (err.... 33 hours, i guess, for the west coast). Then keep in mind that 1) apparently a ot of people who bought their phones on Saturday had activation problems, and they weren't activated until Sunday, Monday or later, and 2) there were people who bought multiple phones or used them for gifts or were going to sell them, so their activation would come later too.

700,000 for the first weekend or first week or whatever is pie in the sky thinking, but come on - i don't think anybody can call 146,000 of anything sold, especially a $600 piece of hardware tied to a 2 year guaranteed contract and income, in the first 30 hours of its life a failure.

7/25/2007 3:40:04 PM

you can when Apple needs to sell something like 2-5 million of them to break even from the R&D and production costs.

Im waiting for Apple's annual report to speculate at all though, im sure it'll all work out for them, but this isnt the next RAZR in terms of saturation.

7/25/2007 5:37:57 PM

nearly $150/share afterhours

7/25/2007 5:41:18 PM

they sold 10-fucking-million ipods last quarter.....
read somewhere the other day that Apple sells 25% of all Flash memory made. that's nuts

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/25/ap3952789.html
http://www.moconews.net/entry/419-earnings-apple-posts-q2-profit-gains-of-73-percent-iphone-sales-expecte/

7/25/2007 6:06:35 PM

and i doubt they have sold even a fraction of that many iphones.

I mean, I'm sure they've broken the million mark. Maybe even 2 million. But that's not a success.

7/25/2007 6:19:53 PM

if i worked r&d for a product that sold a million units in one month i would be very excited.

7/25/2007 6:21:53 PM

id be excited too if it was pushing a million units in the 5th or 6th month.

I'm pretty anxious to see how it's sold AFTER the dork/nerd rush on day 1.

Like I said, I'm sure it selling at a healthy pace, but I don't think its the runaway success that Apple investors/fanboys were hoping for. If they sell 10 million by year end, I'd be very very suprised.

7/25/2007 6:31:10 PM

if they had a reduced price with a contract and music subscription i would be all in, but apparently apple either didn't get the memo that i sent to them, or they ignored it

7/25/2007 6:37:35 PM

keep in mind the cell-phone market is already saturated, whereas apple started the mp3 market and owns a healthy percent.

for a first product into a saturated market where people are locked into contracts, 1-2 million in the first month or two is still a success in most people's books.

7/25/2007 7:53:50 PM

they didnt start the mp3 market. it was pretty damn saturated when they entered it. there just weren't any really outstanding products (sound familiar?)

7/25/2007 8:03:52 PM

think of the money that people are putting into breaking contracts to move to at&t

7/25/2007 8:04:57 PM

it iPhone is competing in a non-saturated, or relatively untapped, market: non-business oriented Smart Phones.
For business smart phones, Blackberry has a lock on those. Blackberry is oriented for businesses, for managing tons of emails and lots of contacts.
The iPhone will not work in most business environments, and all reviews point out that the email program is workable, but hardly robust enough for most business purposes, same with contact management.

The iPhone is oriented at
1) people who use their Smart Phones for personal use, but are not satisfied with them because they're not very user-friendly,
2) people who have wanted to move from a regular phone to a smart phone (for personal use), but are just not happy with the existing options, and
3), probably the most lucrative market (think iPod), people who don't even realize that they "need" a Smart Phone. These are people who use their phones now and are more or less satisfied with them, but when they see the iPhone on TV or on the street they say "wow - you mean it's possible to check my email on my phone? i didn't know you could do that!" Then those people will gradually drop their normal phones and upgrade to the iPhone.

7/25/2007 8:52:28 PM

i hope to have my t720 motorola until at least 2010

7/25/2007 8:55:52 PM

^^And 95% of those demographics, aka the casual user, loves it, sees the 500 dollar pricetag and realizes they are plenty happy with their free razr.

Seriously, it's the PS3 phenomenon. You can't sell a casual consumer on a 600 dollar entertainment device. Right now you've got the 1st adopters and a very small business segment buying them, followed by the trend setters. After that the market tends to dry up.

7/26/2007 2:51:39 AM

first update released. 1.0.0.1 just simple bug fixes whatever those might be. Wish itunes would display a specific list of bugs so i know if the ones I've stumbled upon have been fixed.

8/1/2007 11:52:45 PM

Quote :

"You can't sell a casual consumer on a 600 dollar entertainment device."

i thought we had covered this ground extensively with the iPod example, showing that 1) yes, people will buy a $500 entertainment device (one with a mono-tone screen and small storage, like the first iPod) and 2) the prices will drop and features and storage will be added, then the adoption in the main stream will really pick up.

8/2/2007 12:05:00 AM

the differences between ipod and iphone in terms of the environment are HUGELY different

8/2/2007 12:23:29 AM

Custom ringtones now available on the iPhone without having to use the multistep, complicated ringtone hack that was discovered a month or so ago. I just tried this iPhoneRingtoneMaker program and it worked flawlessly, just pick an mp3 off your harddrive, select the section of the mp3 you want and hit send to iPhone, it asks you for a name and 5 seconds later you have the ringtone as a selection under settings, couldn't be easier to use.

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2007/07/26/efksoft-unveils-iphoneringtonemaker-custom-ringtone-editor/

8/5/2007 6:15:48 PM

Official iPhone Tool

http://www.flickr.com/photos/keithmuth/997674912/in/set-72157601192063020/

8/5/2007 7:38:09 PM

Quote :

"they didnt start the mp3 market. it was pretty damn saturated when they entered it."

thats just not very true, there was a tiny market for mp3's when apple entered the market. it was saturated because it was such a small market. apple didnt start the market, but they expanded the hell out of it. they started the mp3 market as we know it now. i spent some a good amount of time talking to a few people at apple about this, they recognized the saturation of the market but thought that they could create a new market. initially the market was only techno-nerd early adopters, and they envisioned a market for all consumers and created it.

8/5/2007 10:00:04 PM

Best phone ever

8/12/2007 11:57:51 PM

^^completely agree

8/12/2007 11:59:42 PM

Quote :

"initially the market was only techno-nerd early adopters"

That because no one had the balls to release an over-engineered, super expensive HD based player, but that was also very easy to use. Really, no company still is being as bold as Apple has been in the portable audio and now cell phone markets. The only one that comes close is MS and their solution is partially based on burning insane amounts of money for long term gains (see Xbox).

It's a minor distinction to say they started the market "as we know it;" and to say they didn't start the market, but dominated an existing market.

8/13/2007 3:22:46 AM

not true. there are several mp3 players out there that are much better than the iPod technically speaking. But Apple knows how to win the PR race just as much as the tech race.

Much like the iPhone. There are better phones out there that do everything and more than the iPhone, but they have created an experience that is unparalled.

8/13/2007 3:53:15 AM

^ that does not compute.

you say there are better phone, but say apple creates an unparalleled experience. i need a good explanation for this one neon lol.

the iphone is just pretty, and is a fad. any good smartphone, htc 6800 for example, pwns the iphone day and night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIMoAL5DsP4 htc 6800 with iphone theme, lol

[Edited on August 13, 2007 at 8:17 AM. Reason : sdfg]

8/13/2007 8:09:10 AM

^i believe it's noen, not neon

and I believe what he said makes every bit of sense. there are phones and mp3 players that do everything and more then what the ipod and iphone are functionally meant to do (and may even perform those operations better), but the ipod and iphone have been set up with extras that you obviously pay for, and its those little things that make a big difference in "experiencing" the product.

like, the motion sensing widescreen on the iphone. that really isn't a function based thing, as on another device there may be a setting to shift things to widescreen. and maybe another devices widescreen display looks a lot better. but who gives a shit when you can watch the screen turn when you flip your phone around?

8/13/2007 9:43:55 AM

Quote :

"i believe it's noen, not neon"

hahaha

this automatically negates your post

i do agree with what he said in a way, but how can you say apple has created an unparalleled experience if there are clearly better phones and mp3 players? i mean its just a fad. fad simply means you pick up on becasue you can't think for yourself. having to pay beaucoup for a new battery, no discount on the phone with a 2 year plan, relatively high priced package, only one carrier, and still no subscription for itunes, and no itunes software tailored to download music right to the iphone (this will come i believe) - yeah, sure they have created an unparalleled experience lolz

[Edited on August 13, 2007 at 10:16 AM. Reason : asdf]

8/13/2007 10:13:51 AM

Quote :

"having to pay beaucoup for a new battery, no discount on the phone with a 2 year plan, relatively high priced package, only one carrier, and still no subscription for itunes, and no itunes software tailored to download music right to the iphone (this will come i believe) - yeah, sure they have created an unparalleled experience lolz "

I dunno about you, but I have never had a phone long enough to have to bother replacing a battery. Also, all the dumbfucks lamenting about the iPhone's battery refuse to get it in their minds that the battery loses only 20% of its capacity after a year, which is pretty darn normal for any phone. Unless you plan to tote around that iPhone for the next 5 years, battery is not an issue. I know I'll be getting a new phone come time to renew my cell phone contract, AT THE LATEST.

Who cares about discounts? I know ATT doesn't offer any discounts for high end smartphones. Check out the nice HP phones. Even after the discount they are way more expensive than what you would spend to get directly from HP or even Amazon.

Again, why blame Apple for lack of carriers. That's just being a dumbass. They approached Verizon first, but Verizon didn't wanna implement visual voice mail, or hand out a cheap unlimited data plan, so ATT won. Blame your stupid wireless company.

DRM sucks, and I don't support subscription. Apple knows better than that.

Yes, it is an unparalleled experience. If you don't believe me, go try one out at the Apple store. You could even try to call your friends for free, and if even that doesn't impress you, you could always go back to using your current awesome phone that comes with everything the iPhone lacks.

8/13/2007 10:24:51 AM