I think its because Jack is so delusional because of his love for Kate he ignores the fact that shes a crazy bitch and stole aaron. But at the same time he cares enough that he doesn't want to see aaron and be reminded of it. Out of the "8" survivors we know 4, Hurley, Sayid, Jack, Kate. I'm assuming Claire wasn't one of those 8. Jin, Sun, Locke, Sawyer maybe?

Oh- and told you so. Now lets see if Jin and Sun are the last two of the six.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 10:13 PM. Reason : aag]

2/21/2008 10:11:49 PM

Quote :

"why did jack say 8 survived the crash"

this question has been at the center of all the S4 episodes so far. We know about the "Oceanic 6" - the 6 people that the rest of the world think survived and were rescued from the crash (we know Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sayid so far. maybe is one of the 6..... but i doubt it). So now we're getting some backstory. All 6 of the survivors are sticking to a story that only 8 survived the crash initially, and 2 of them died on the island. Now exactly why they're telling this story? i guess we'll have to keep watching

As far as the baby being Aaron.... they'll have to finesse the timeline a little bit to make it work (or maybe the funky time in and around the island can help with this). Aaron was born just a few weeks after the crash. The helicopter guys are there 90-100 days after the crash, and aaron is a few weeks old. We don't know when Kate and the Oceanic 6 leave the island yet, but people who knew Kate in Australia knew she wasn't pregnant. So they're going to have to explain when and by whom Kate was supposed to be pregnant, i.e. who is "supposed to be" Aarons father, because obviously Claire and Charley are dead as far as the outside world is concerned (well, Charley actually is dead, but it's likely that Claire and most of the people not part of the Oceanic 6 are still alive on the island or somewhere else).

2/21/2008 10:13:41 PM

Quote :

"I think its because Jack is so delusional because of his love for Kate he ignores the fact that shes a crazy bitch and stole aaron."

i doubt that in the end Kate stole Aaron. I am guessing it was some kind of agreement. Either Claire died or is killed, so it would make sense for Kate to take Aaron, or for some reason Claire gives Aaron up to Kate, like whoever saves them can only take 6 people and Kate is one of them, and CLaire wants to make sure Aaron gets off the island.

2/21/2008 10:16:38 PM

where will the storyline with the psychic who told claire SHE must be the one to raise the baby play into this

2/21/2008 10:17:04 PM

Quote :

"ridiculous episode locke is fucking crazy kate took aaron why did jack say 8 survived the crash who does the asian dude work for? if it's Lt. Daniels, who does he work for? what happened to the helo?"

OMG I MUST FREAKOUT BECAUSE AN EPISODE OF LOST WAS SO RIDICULOUS AND i HAVE TO WATCH NEXT WEEK BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN THIS EPISODE!


seriously though, this show's weakness is every scene off the island. why everyone gives a shit about the past and the future scenes is beyond me...

8 people "survived" the crash because there's obviously some big cover up...doesn't really matter what it is...they'll tell us eventually

jack doesn't want to see aaron because he eventually finds out that claire was his sister...and something happened to claire and kate probably had something to do with it...or he feels weirded out that aaron is his nephew for some reason...

the asian dude likely works for penelope's dad...or somebody we haven't met yet...

the helo is somewhere between the island and the freightor stuck in the bermuda triangle of the bent space-time continuum

locke doesn't want ben to be super rich and a real person

anything else you guys wanna know?

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 10:19 PM. Reason : will draw awesome diagrams if requested....]

2/21/2008 10:18:19 PM

i don't think she stole aaron!! as what ppl have already said...he doesn't want to see him because he's been telling that same story about the 8 ppl that survived etc etc over and over and over again to the point he almost believes it (just like kate said). aaron is PROOF that more than what he said happened. he wants to block it out. but seeing aaron won't let him.

2/21/2008 10:19:47 PM

Quote :

"OMG I MUST FREAKOUT BECAUSE AN EPISODE OF LOST WAS SO RIDICULOUS AND i HAVE TO WATCH NEXT WEEK BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN THIS EPISODE!"

careful, if you keep typing with the caps lock on people may get the idea that you're a complete dickhole

2/21/2008 10:20:56 PM

where have you been four seasons?

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 10:23 PM. Reason : you guys should be happy i've avoided this thread this long]

2/21/2008 10:22:53 PM

OMG AARON

that's about all I can say

Quote :

"So it is definitely Aaron, but now we need to know why Jack would be so adamant about not seeing him? Obviously if it were Kate and Sawyer's child he wouldn't want anything to do with him, but he's got nothing against Claire or Aaron"

The fact that there's a cover up about how many and who got off the island implies that they don't want people to know what they had to do to get off the island in the first place. This may include something like leaving Claire there or offing her.... I have no idea. She might just die somewhere in there (through no fault of Kate or Jack) and Kate takes over as Aaron's mom.

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 10:38 PM. Reason : .]

2/21/2008 10:28:05 PM

So does Aaron not count as one of the Oceanic 6? He technically wasn't a crash survivor since he was born on the island but I'm pretty sure that last week they said they were gonna reveal the 5th member...

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 10:30 PM. Reason : ]

2/21/2008 10:29:43 PM

The oceanic six is just a trendy name given to the six now celebrity survivors. Aaron was too young to get all the publicity, be on talk shows, etc.

2/21/2008 10:31:10 PM

The Oceanic 6 is the 6 people that got off the island

2 of the "8 crash survivors" "died"

makes for a better story than "6 people got off deserted, unmapped island while leaving 20+ others to never be found ever again...."

[Edited on February 21, 2008 at 10:37 PM. Reason : asdfghjk]

2/21/2008 10:37:12 PM

they did specifically say 5th member last week, so i'm thinking that maybe he does count; however, until now i thought that if aaron came back he wouldn't count.

Also i think dzags18 has been reading spoilers or something because guessing that kate had aaron from way back is just a little too weird. he can deny it if he wants but if you go back and read the way he phrased some of his old posts it makes it a little obvious, especially when you add his other "guesses" onto it.

also my theory is that they say 8 survived but two died because Jack almost said she tried to save the other two. On that note he said six survived so maybe Aaron doesn't count. Maybe the preview said "another person who got off the island" or something.

2/21/2008 10:41:31 PM

^ i agree, no way in hell anyone would have "predicted" that Kate would take Aaron a few weeks ago.

also, locke is badass... "enjoy your breakfast"

2/22/2008 12:14:36 AM

a lot of you people are idiots saying there was an "arrangement" lmao. IDIOTS.

claire was with locke and seeing as charlie died to tell them not to trust the boat she would have never went much less sent her baby.

its OBVIOUS kate kidnapped aaron (even was foreshadowed when they were hanging clothes) from the camp and left.

the six are

kate
jack
hurley
aaron
sayid
anohter

and the "dead" 2 are

claire (they had to say she had aaron and died so it would make sense) they prolly said kate delivered
another-your guess is as good as mine but i want to think these last 2 are jin/sun with one of them "dead" since the only other strong characters are locke and sawyer.

2/22/2008 12:19:08 AM

^we have no idea what is left to happen this season, or even if the 6 that do get off actually get off by the end of this season. so no, at the moment there is no way claire would give aaron to kate, but i dont think there is any way in hell kate just takes him, she doesnt even like babies, there is so much more that needs to play out, and i think something is going to happen to claire, and she's gonna make kate promise that she'll take care of him.

and i dont really think that Aaron counts as one of the 6

[Edited on February 22, 2008 at 12:28 AM. Reason : $$$]

2/22/2008 12:25:28 AM

was anyone really surprised it was aaron? please

I don't like that locke is being a super-asshole. leaving a loaded grenade in a guy's mouth? c'mon. for all we know due to two scenes this guy is nothing but a greedy man. fuck you locke

2/22/2008 12:28:27 AM

i agree, i dont like whats happened to Locke, he was one of my favorite characters, but now i'm liking him less and less

2/22/2008 12:29:08 AM

does jack somehow find out that his dad is aaron's grandfather?

2/22/2008 1:16:29 AM

didn't Kate take a pregnancy test before she left her husband (the cop played by Nathan Fillion)? maybe she says he's the father. maybe he owned that nice house she walked into at the end and believes he's the dad.

That could explain why Jack didn't want to visit if Kate's cop husband is back in the picture.

I doubt Kate would admit Aaron was actually Claire's baby.. then she'd be worried about a custody battle as well.

2/22/2008 1:30:45 AM

Here's a nice interview with the producers that explains some things, and doesn't explain others. Definitely worth reading.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20179125,00.html

2/22/2008 2:23:07 AM

Quote :

"So does Aaron not count as one of the Oceanic 6? He technically wasn't a crash survivor since he was born on the island but I'm pretty sure that last week they said they were gonna reveal the 5th member..."

It depends on if you consider him a human at conception or at birth...but this is getting to be a convo too much like one i've had about abortion. hahah

I'm thinking those gas masks Daniel/Kate/Jack recovered will come in handy soon. Maybe thats when everyone on the island "dies".

2/22/2008 2:33:41 AM

In response to the Aaron and Kate deal from a few up - it actually wasn't my idea - a friend of mine suggested it to me and it made some sense. Maybe she had read spoilers in the first place, but I really don't think shes the type. And as for me reading spoilers, it wasn't even until season 3 that I started watching the promos.. Lost is one show I don't like to be spoiled.

2/22/2008 6:22:03 AM

A lot of people were saying kate brought aaron back weeks ago, its not because of spoilers.

We even came up with that theory on our own, here at the lunch table at work, referring to who it could be at last years season finale when kate said "ive got to get back to him".

2/22/2008 7:57:31 AM

Quote :

"I don't like that locke is being a super-asshole. leaving a loaded grenade in a guy's mouth? c'mon. for all we know due to two scenes this guy is nothing but a greedy man. fuck you locke"

I was actually happy that someone on the island had some balls to get the answers they want. All of this, "you need to tell me what you know" b/s is getting tiresome.

2/22/2008 9:19:07 AM

^agreed. i totally approve of locke's move. that asian dude is being a complete dick and was getting treated rather well by locke. locke has been controlling because the other people don't know whats up from whats down and he knows that he is in charge of the safety of the island. hes just making sure he does whatever it takes to do the best in his ability to do complete his task. he gave the asian dude many chances, he should have taken them. now people will try and listen to locke the first time around when hes playing nice instead of walking all over him.

2/22/2008 9:29:57 AM

Quote :

"a lot of you people are idiots saying there was an "arrangement" lmao. IDIOTS. claire was with locke and seeing as charlie died to tell them not to trust the boat she would have never went much less sent her baby. its OBVIOUS kate kidnapped aaron (even was foreshadowed when they were hanging clothes) from the camp and left. "

i think you're making a lot of dead-fast assumptions about something you know nothing about. At this point nothing is "obvious"

we have no idea what happens between "now" (on the island) and "the future". Any number of things could have happened for Aaron to change hands:
- kate kidnaps aaron
- claire is killed and kate takes over
- kate kills claire and takes aaron
- whoever rescues the Oceanic 6 says claire can't come for some reason and she surrenders aaron to kate
- the smoke monster kills claire
- charlie's ghost comes back and teleports Aaron back to the US
i mean really, who knows


we are getting some good clues, though, as to how the overall timeline is coming out. We know that they crashed in September 2004, and the helicopter came ~100 days later, so on the island "right now" it is around christmas 2004, early 2005.
The previous flash-forwards didn't give us any real indication as to how much time had passed since the Island. But in Kate's flash-forward, we can see that Aaron is.... 3 years old, maybe? Also, her mom says something like she hasn't seen Kate in 4 years, and it was at least a few months since she saw her mom and the crash. So Aaron was born around October-November 2004, and if he is 3 or 3.5 years old, that would put the "future scenes" right around late 2007, early 2008, which is kind of cool that it's keeping up with real-time somehow.

We also know that Jack seems to have fallen into his downward spiral sometime after the trial. So the scene at the end of S3 where Kate and Jack met and said something like "we have to go back", let's say 1-2 years from "now", meaning sometime in 2009. Maybe the whole timeline of the show will catch-up to that point, and they will open a new time/plotline. Anyway, it's not entirely inconceiveable that when the show ends in 2011 the actual plot of the show would have progressed the same amount of time, and it would also be 2011 on the show. Not that that means much, but it would be kind of cool.

2/22/2008 9:53:00 AM

gov'mnt came an took mah baby

2/22/2008 9:57:56 AM

Quote :

"I'm thinking those gas masks Daniel/Kate/Jack recovered will come in handy soon. Maybe thats when everyone on the island "dies"."

Yeah I like that idea, perhaps at some point, the Oceanic 6 have the gas masks in their possession when the island is gassed and a bunch of the crash survivors die, while Ben and maybe a few other people are locked in one of the Dharma stations.

2/22/2008 9:59:32 AM

though i'm enjoying this season, i still sort of wish that they never would of started flash-forwards... I don't really like knowing what's going to happen. I would have rather it just played out the way it had been.

i guess they were probably running out of flashback stories though...

2/22/2008 10:35:00 AM

i think the flash-forwards are great, and I get the feeling this was planned all along. i doubt it was like the writers were sitting around trying to think of another backstory and they were like "hey, i know, let's go into the future now!"


i was just thinking about Kate/Jack/Aaron.
I wonder if part of the coverup story they're telling is that Jack is the father. That's why the prosecuter asked Jack if he still loved Kate. So the story would be: Kate saved Jack from the water and was the leader; Jack got Kate pregnant on the island; it's unclear when Aaron would have been born, but it must be on the island since they couldn't fake Kate being pregnant; so when the Oceanic 6 return, Kate and Jack are together and in love and have a baby Aaron; then some point before the trial they "break up" ("break up", because they were never really together anyway, even though Jack does love her)

2/22/2008 10:49:27 AM

Quote :

"though i'm enjoying this season, i still sort of wish that they never would of started flash-forwards... I don't really like knowing what's going to happen. I would have rather it just played out the way it had been."

Well the thing is, the show isn't always going to be flash-forwards. Sometime in season 5 or 6, the show will actually "catch-up" to where things are "now," with "now" being the end of season 3 when Jack is yelling at Kate that they have to go back. From that point on (presumably) the show will take place in real-time, with no more flashbacks or forwards, with the survivors (probably) returning to the island, because whatever they did to get off is haunting them.

Most of that is not just my speculation, but is strongly hinted at in the link I posted above. Here it is again. I normally don't read links either, but this really is a good, short interview with the producers that is worth your time if you have 5 minutes to read it. They broadly outline where the show is going and when we will and won't get certain answers.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20179125_5,00.html

2/22/2008 11:07:19 AM

^^the whole world isn't stupid. they can tell how old a kid is and 16 months(9 months on island claire was 7-8 months preggers) is a big difference for a babys age. you can't hide that. you guys just don't want to think kate would do anything bad. i'm getting sick of this kate fan love affair. either way she does something shady to get aaron. theres no way around it.

Quote :

"whoever rescues the Oceanic 6 says claire can't come for some reason and she surrenders aaron to kate"

She would never trust them anyway she wouldn't want to go. this show isn't too predictable but some things you know won't happen. shes not gonna all of a sudden say "fuck charlie". and charlies ghost isn't gonna be completely polar and then all of a sudden start begging hurley to go back to the island and help.

2/22/2008 11:20:11 AM

Quote :

"i'm getting sick of this kate fan love affair. "

i don't think this has anything to do with a "kate love affair". Kate has shown that she can be ruthless and a bitch, and I don't think fans will have any trouble accepting that kate could do something like take Aaron. And maybe she does/will, but I don't think there's any reason to think that's a foregone conclusion yet. There's a lot of time left, and any number of things can happen in the ~3 years between "now on the island" and the trial

2/22/2008 11:26:30 AM

there is no way kate steals Aaron, she doesn't even want to touch him, Claire is gonna get fucked up, and she's gonna make Kate promise that she'll take care of him, thats the only way Kate is gonna go from her current view of him, refusing to hold him, to the care she showed for him in the flash forward.

2/22/2008 11:26:59 AM

Quote :

"Kate saved Jack from the water and was the leader; Jack got Kate pregnant on the island; it's unclear when Aaron would have been born, but it must be on the island since they couldn't fake Kate being pregnant"

for that story to work they'd have to be on the island for more than 9 months. i highly doubt that

2/22/2008 11:33:45 AM

^with the possible time differential affect, the outside world may think they've been stranded there for over a couple of years.

2/22/2008 2:26:58 PM

this season has not only been flash forwards

there was a flashback when we saw naomi talking to the black guy before she went on her mission

2/22/2008 3:15:53 PM

all of episode 2 was flashbacks when introducing us to the freighter people. But i don't think there's been a flashback of the Island characters this season

2/22/2008 3:19:07 PM

I might have missed this comment but I wanted to comment on the the comment about 8 survivors but only a Oceanic 6. Didn't the end of last season end with a coffin or something that Jack went to go see. I think we suspected Locke but I doubt that now. But who knows...

However the hole on this response was that the funeral was more into the future and Jack had a beard. So I might be wrong on this.

2/22/2008 8:49:12 PM

no, during Jack's testimony, he said that initially there were 8 survivors from the crash, but 2 of them died, then the remaining 6 were rescued.

of course, all of that is a lie anyway for the coverup, so it doesn't really matter how many he says initially survived or how many died while on the island or whatever.

2/22/2008 9:46:55 PM

Hopefully someone can answer this for me. Earlier in this season after Jack saves that chick from the car wreck in the flash-forward and the black doc confronts him about it he tells the black doc to get his father out there to talk to him.

Or did I totally imagine that.

If that is the case........what's up with that? Just a drunken/drug stupor sort of thing?

2/22/2008 11:54:49 PM

I took it as him being in a drunekn stupor. But maybe thats what they want us to think and his father is actually alive in the future.

2/23/2008 1:59:11 AM

I was going on the assumption that it was a drunken stupor.

But, i do think it was brought on because jack finds out his father is alive on the island (see above posts and docartz's website for comments about it being jacks father in jacobs cabin).

I think that what we have yet to see, that jack yelling for his father in the hospital foreshadowed, is jack finding his dad on the island, finding out that his dad is somewhat in control, and we will get the same scene as in the hospital, with maybe jack and locke outside of jacobs cabin, and jack screaming "get my father out here now". (Jack = Jack, Locke = Black Doctor, etc...)

Just a theory.

2/23/2008 10:06:43 AM

yeah, there's definitely some ambiguity if Jack's dad is alive or not. there have been a couple other hints that he might be alive somehow

2/23/2008 10:07:16 AM

jack's dad being alive makes absolutely no sense and i have no idea how they could ever write that into the show unless they just said some bullshit like, oh the powers of the island brought him back to life. but even that is retarded

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 10:58 AM. Reason : ,.]

2/23/2008 10:58:14 AM

^Yeah, it is. But if you watch all the webisodes they put together before this seasons one of them shows him on the island talking to Vincent. But that still doesn't mean anything... but it could.

2/23/2008 11:10:49 AM

yes, i saw it. and it makes no goddamn sense, and i have no idea how they'd write some crazy shit like that into the show. that's all i'm sayin

2/23/2008 11:29:53 AM

Cuse and Lindeloff confirmed it was jacks dad in jacob's cabin when hurley looked in, so there is no question about that.


See this link below where they confirmed it:

**SPOILER ALERT - DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE SPOILERS **

http://www.docarzt.com/lost-spoilers/doc-jensen-interviews-cuse-and-1.php

**SPOILER ALERT - DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE SPOILERS **

2/23/2008 12:16:11 PM

here is my theory...

the "cabin" and whatever is inside the cabin (jacob, jack's dad, etc...) are not real. They are images that are produced by a power similar to the black smoke monster...

it is some sort of nanotechnology brought about by magnetic anomalies on the island. It can be controlled to manipulate reality and the images people see.

my basis behind this theory? Ben and Locke walked past a "border" of some type of black substance on the ground before they approached jacob's cabin...

this same type of black substance was seen on the ground before locke tried to find the cabin while he was leading the lostees in a couple episodes back.

this black powder substance has the same root/powers as the "black smoke monster"...
it produces images that aren't really there...hence old walt, jack's dad...etc...

2/23/2008 12:20:55 PM