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2/24/2008 4:31:58 PM

Quote :

"There's no permit for possession, only concealed handgun licenses and purchasing permits. "

so you're saying that the purchase permit is a throwback to the jim crow era that they are still using to hold us down?

2/24/2008 5:36:44 PM

I wouldnt doubt it, with the man being the man and all.


CCW for the damn win!

2/24/2008 10:05:16 PM

^^^^Can't shoot until they are inside, if they're outside, you're really hosed.

Permits are a pain just because it takes time, time that I haven't had to be able to take yet and now I'm just about frustrated enough to just buy another rifle.

CCW is expensive, ~$100 for a class, then $80 for the application, and $75 every 5 years after that... It wouldn't bother me except I can't CC anywhere I am except where I don't need a permit anyway.

2/24/2008 10:46:23 PM

^

Quote :

"GS14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder. (a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence. (b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section. (c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)"

2/24/2008 11:18:12 PM

Well, I stand corrected, but make sure you use some FMJ to penetrate for a vitals hit such that they die before they can sue you. Sometimes laywers just seem excessive, such as the case about James Sokolove suing ATV manufacturers for rollovers.

2/24/2008 11:24:15 PM

yeah, that's the problem with CC...you can't actually carry it anywhere...especially anywhere you're somewhat likely to need it.

2/24/2008 11:31:04 PM

Well, considering that school and work are no gun zones, it kinda puts a cramp into where one can carry.

How about those damn Loomis guards, they can carry to guard the money in a no-gun-zone where they'll never get shot at. Perhaps law should require them to leave all firearms in their vehicles.

2/24/2008 11:34:19 PM

really the CCW or CCH is good for 2 things.

1. The ability to purchase a handgun at any time without having to have a permit for it.

2. The ability to put the handgun anywhere you want in a vehicle (aka have it concealed).

After reading the where and where not's of a CCW it's amazing that even in today's day and time there are all of these places that you cannot LEGALLY carry, but any joe blow that wants to break the law and do wrong can just walk right in, and then you can't LEGALLY do anything to prevent it. Once again gun laws aimed at keeping law abiding citizens from exercising their legal rights, while not really solving anything.

/soap box

2/25/2008 9:54:34 AM

DonkeyButt and i went shooting out in wendell the other day.

found a deers skull and hung it on a tree.

i shot it twice, using a .45 FMJ.

i dont know, i guess i thought the skull would shatter, or at least be worse than a strait hole through it.

would a hollow point have made a difference? i have 2 clips worth of hollow points, but used them up before shooting the skull.

2/25/2008 10:28:59 AM

Not really. You aren't shooting at anything with really mass to it, it is pretty much akin to shooting a heavy piece of plastic. Depending on the age / brittleness of the bone you might expect more, but once it pushes through the exterior of the hollow skull, it isn't pushing anything but air until it gets to the back of the skull.

If you want explosions, take fruit or full soda cans out there. The solid / semi solid medium in them will transmit the shock of the bullet better than something hollow.

2/25/2008 10:35:04 AM

we took 2 full aerosol cans out there

2/25/2008 10:47:31 AM

Quote :

"so you're saying that the purchase permit is a throwback to the jim crow era that they are still using to hold us down?"

some states are "permit-to-buy" states, in which case you need a single permit, per handgun you purchase...when you buy the gun, the dealer takes your permit and keeps it

some other states are "permit-to-own" states, in which you need to always have a permit on you when you're carrying, concealed or otherwise

North Carolina is a permit-to-buy state...and like shevais mentioned, if you have a CCP in North Carolina you can also use it as a 'reusable' permit-to-buy

2/25/2008 12:17:52 PM

the jim crow part is that who ever reviews it gets to see you and whoever you put down and then jump to conclusions, if they don't like you for whatever reason, racist or otherwise, they can reject it

similar to the voting 'tests' they used to give and such

2/25/2008 12:39:42 PM

Quote :

"The Pistol Purchase Permit law was passed in 1919, and is a classic piece of Jim Crow-era legislation (Jim Crow History). The recognition of civil rights for blacks and other minorities meant that the Constitution applied to minorities. This meant that blacks and other minorities could exercise their natural right to self-defense, with the full support of the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution and Article I, Sec. 30 of the North Carolina Constitution. This did not sit well with the Ku Klux Klan (which for many years was headquartered in Raleigh, just down the street from the Legislature) and other racist groups and influential individuals. The racist members of the State Legislature knew they could not overtly prevent minorities from purchasing handguns for protection, so the seemingly innocent Pistol Purchase Permit law was passed. This law allowed local Sheriffs and government officials to discriminate with impunity at the local level. Even today, the Pistol Purchase Permit law is implemented in an arbitrary and capricious fashion by 100 individual County Sheriffs. Some Sheriffs do little more than collect the fees and hand out permits to the law-abiding, because more than that is not necessary. Others implement ridiculous, intrusive requirements that either discriminate on a wholesale basis or are selectively applied so that discrimination can be more personalized."

2/25/2008 1:37:07 PM

I need to ship some defective ammo back to the manufacturer. Do I just pack it with newspaper? I feel as if I should send the entire box back, b/c the couple that were defective. I have no way of telling if the rest of them are bad.

2/26/2008 11:02:49 AM

im thinking about trading my Glock 19 for a SS Springfield Mil-Spec

anyone have any thoughts on this? pros/cons?

2/26/2008 11:05:48 AM

call them up mayhaps?

2/26/2008 11:05:51 AM

^^ I assume you mean a 1911?

I think it'd first help to hear you elaborate your ideas on why you'd trade in the first place.

2/26/2008 11:21:41 AM

yeah meant 1911...not sure why I didn't type that haha

my reasons for wanting to trade is I really want a 1911 and it seems like a pretty decent deal since I can always get a glock for around $500 and this gun is more valuable

I like my glock and all but a 1911 is just so damn sexy

2/26/2008 12:56:51 PM

That's really all the reason you need. IMHO Glocks are more reliable than most 1911s (there is a reason you pay $2k for a Wilson Combat) and the 9mm is a perfectly capable round (only 2mm smaller than the .45) but if a 1911 is what you want, then you might as well get it. I used to own a Kimber and I loved shooting that thing.

2/26/2008 3:52:58 PM

yeah I just really wanted some info from people w/first hand experience with the springfield...I know my glock is a great gun but I don't know a ton about the springfield

2/26/2008 5:30:04 PM

theDuke866 had / has a Springfield, might want to PM him.

2/26/2008 5:36:53 PM

eh after thinking about it i have decided to keep my glock and save up for a better 1911 later...if i can only have one pistol i would rather have one that i know i can depend on

2/26/2008 6:26:04 PM

i love my 1970-something model Browning .45 based on the Sig action with a 1911 style look

I keep it in the safe though, its more of a collectible than something to shoot all the time

2/26/2008 6:30:07 PM

Time for round 2 of PSP love.

2/27/2008 1:09:34 AM

Re: Springfield 1911s

First of all, I'll admit my bias: I don't like Glocks. Actually, I like them fine except for one thing--I don't like DA triggers at all (yeah, yeah, Glock isn't exactly DA, but for my purposes, that's what I'm going to call it). DAO is an instant, 100% dealbreaker for me, although Glock's is about the least shitty I've seen (which is a shame, because Glocks "feel" good to me otherwise).

Also, my 1911 is a Stainless Loaded model, which is kind of the Gucci edition compared to a mil-spec (wanted a Kimber, but the Springfield offered more pistol for the money, in my opinion).

At any rate, a cheaper, basic 1911 from a good manufacturer like Springfield can be a perfectly good, reliable pistol...but it won't have features like a beavertail grip, extended length ambidextrous safety, good sights, good (well, better) trigger, grip-safety "button", etc. Any of these things can be "fixed" for a price, later on (and you can pick and chose what you want to upgrade. For example, you may not give a shit about having a "button" on the grip safety.

A good shooting 1911 is a wonderful thing, though. The only other pistol I've shot that I shoot as well and like as much was my old SIG P226 (well, other that .22 match pistols and stuff).

I slightly prefer something like a SIG as a tactical (read: real world, especially if I wanted to carry it) pistol.

Cons of a Springfield 1911? Well, they're an asspain to disassemble and clean, at least compared to a Glock or a SIG. You have to have an allen wrench, and it's like a fucking puzzle compared to any modern, tactical pistol (which can be disassembled with your fingers in about 10 seconds, tops).

Also, the barrel on mine rubs against the slide as the action is cycled. I had a gunsmith look at it, and he said that aside from marring the top of the barrel a little and making the slide a little stiffer to pull back, it wouldn't really affect anything, and to just shoot a zillion rounds through it to really fully break it in.

If you're itching for something besides your Glock, go test drive a SIG P-series. They're awesome.

If you want a really slick, tricked-out 1911, but keep the Glock as a bang-around, throw it in the glovebox, concealed-carry piece, that's prob not a bad idea, either (although I'd personally still get a SIG for that job, although in a real tactical situation, I'd probably make do with that damned DA trigger well enough to serve the purpose. I just hate the shit out of them at the range.)

2/27/2008 1:26:38 AM

Duke makes a good point:

Quote :

"At any rate, a cheaper, basic 1911 from a good manufacturer like Springfield can be a perfectly good, reliable pistol...but it won't have features like a beavertail grip, extended length ambidextrous safety, good sights, good (well, better) trigger, grip-safety "button", etc. Any of these things can be "fixed" for a price, later on"

The 1911 is the muscle car of the handgun world. It's big, slick, powerful, a blast to shoot, has a reputation (deserved or not) for being finicky, and there are endless parts out there available for customization. You might want to wait until you can find an affordable base model and then start building it up from there yourself. They are actually very simple guns and very easy to work on.

2/27/2008 8:44:25 AM

Quote :

"You might want to wait until you can find an affordable base model and then start building it up from there yourself."

eh...
I've done the math numerous times on building 1911s.

If you want a nice 1911 with all the standard extra features then it's cheaper to just buy it.
I'd pick a Springfield Loaded over a Kimber Custom II.

2/27/2008 10:21:35 AM

thanks for the quick write up duke that is probably what i will end up doing

i dont really mind the glocks trigger because it is what i learned on and i can be pretty accurate with it. i will use it for the throw in the glove box type gun and that was my plan all along until this trade came up. i do want to get a sig one day though because all i have heard about them is amazing things i would have looked at getting one when i got my glock but i didnt have the extra money to throw down for a sig when glocks are pretty damn good.

so my plan now is to wait it out and get something like the springfield loaded model or something to the equivalent when i get some funds.

2/27/2008 11:39:37 AM

Good idea.

If you got a Mil-spec ($500) and wanted to turn it into a Loaded then you'd have to add:
-beavertail $30
-trigger $20
-thumb safety $30
-hammer $20
-sights $85+
-you'd have to get a gunsmith to mill the dovetails for the sights $50+

Plus, you'd have to be able to fit all those parts yourself and that requires tools, knowledge, and the guts to risk a fubar job.
That's a minimum of $235+$500 for the mil-spec when you can buy a Loaded for $750

2/27/2008 12:35:02 PM

Who has experience with Kahrs? I held one a few months ago and thought that it'd make a good little compact for when I couldn't carry something larger. Anyone have any first or second hand stories about how great or awful they are?

2/27/2008 3:32:12 PM

all i really know about Kahr's is that when I was looking for a nice polymer/stainless combo compact .45, the Kahr's were usually 6+1 or 7+1 round mag capacity, whereas the Taurus PT145 I settled on had a double stacked mag even though the whole pistol was a similar size

2/27/2008 3:37:08 PM

I'm looking at a single-stacked 9mm simply because it is thinner than any double stacked out there and has a decent capacity and a quicker re-load capability than a revolver.

2/27/2008 3:43:25 PM

I've never shot a Kahr, but they do feel nice.

I'm on multiple gun boards often and I've never heard a single bad thing about them.
They do look like great carry guns, especially being thin and single stacked. I wonder why they aren't more popular.

I think maybe the capacity issue is a big deal to many people. IMO I'd rather have a single stacked auto, whatever caliber it is. It's still gonna have at least as many shots as a revolver.

2/27/2008 4:02:57 PM

i've got some 12 and 14 round mags on some compact pieces but i often only have 7 or 8 in the mag

still though, since you never know what type of Brady repeals will go down depending on who gets elected, I definitely enjoy accumulating a bit of hardware with greater than 10+1 cap

2/27/2008 4:04:23 PM

Why only 7 or 8 shots?

2/27/2008 4:06:13 PM

Quote :

"I wonder why they aren't more popular."

I think it might be a price / round count issue. They aren't cheap, but they've got really nice triggers and, unlike Duke, I only like DA triggers on my carry guns.

2/27/2008 4:09:24 PM

^^just cause i figure if i need any more than that i've got bigger problems to worry about

2/27/2008 4:16:59 PM

In the words of Gabe Suarez,

"Flip them the bird and die like a Viking."

2/27/2008 4:29:20 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D99NHb6B03s

This is going to be my next purchase.

2/28/2008 12:41:51 AM

I need JHP ammo. Where to get at a decent price?

Ranger T 124gr
Gold Dot 124 Short barrel

2/28/2008 4:40:54 PM

if you dont mind wolf, i just got a tin of 900 rounds (9mm) for 149 plus shipping from cabelas

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 7:24 PM. Reason : not at all what you asked for, but thought id share anyway for people looking for bulk]

2/28/2008 7:23:19 PM

^ not a bad deal...

2/29/2008 8:56:42 AM

That's really all the reason you need. IMHO Glocks are more reliable than most 1911s (there is a reason you pay $2k for a Wilson Combat) and the 9mm is a perfectly capable round (only 2mm smaller than the .45) but if a 1911 is what you want, then you might as well get it. I used to own a Kimber and I loved shooting that thing.


this is the most innaccurate statement in this thread. ^


first, with a good magazine( not the $6 gunshow junk) an out of the box 1911 with run like a champ, ask fumbler. and while a 9mm is indeed 2mm smaller than a .45, the 115gr vs 230 gr bullet weights do change a lot on the terminal side.



Duke, take that full length guide rod out of that 1911 and throw it away, it is the spinner rim of the 1911 world. the usgi style setup can be had for $25 and will get it down to a 5 sec fieldstrip. if you are real hardcore and want to detail strip it, the base plate of the mag can remove the correct slotted ( not hex which is weaker but more fashionable) grip screws, the thumb safety can be used to remove the firing pin stop, the firing pin can be then be used to remove the main spring housing pin. when you get that out, take the sear spring out and use the narrow leg as a screwdriver to remove the mag catch lock and spring. that leaves a bare ass frame. can your glock do that?

2/29/2008 8:51:54 PM

Quote :

"this is the most innaccurate statement in this thread. ^"

You care to back that up? 1911s are notoriously tempermental. I never had a problem with my other previous firearms when it came to digesting different grains / types of ammunition, I was limited in my choice for my Kimber 1911 by reliablity problems. Once that was sorted out, it ran fine with Wilson Combat magazines for several months and then suddenly decided to go Class III on me and start shooting 2 and three round bursts because of a problem with the sear. I fixed it, but I was done with it as a personal defense weapon. I don't need that shit being brought up in court against me.

Ergonomically the 1911 is a fabulous weapon. For accuracy, the 1911 is a fabulous weapon. For a number of other reasons, ranging between practical and personal, I feel it is surpassed as a civilian personal defense weapon. If you've got one you like and it works for you, run with it, but like I told skywalkr, if your Glock is fine as it is, you're stepping into potentially expensive territory with the 1911.


Furthermore, yes a 230gr .45 ACP will out penetrate a 147gr 9mm. However, anecdotal evidence from SF medics in Iraq are leaning towards the 9mm over the .45 because suspects are bleeding out faster from multiple 9mm rounds than from single or double taps with the .45. Don't forget, that is ball ammunition, not modern JHPs. All handgun rounds are marginal man-stoppers, so given the option I'd personally rather have more rounds on board (so long as we're talking 9mm and bigger, I don't extend that argument to .22s) than a few marginally better larger rounds.


I also think that Duke's point was that the Glock can be field stripped faster than a 1911. If I'm tearing down a modern semi-auto to the frame, it is usually going to be in an environment where I am going to have the tools to do it.


Let me make it clear, I'm not a Glock snob (personally I don't like their ergonomics actually), I'm not a 1911 bandwagon basher either, but I simply don't buy into that crowd that thinks it was the last handgun that ever needed to be invented.

2/29/2008 11:49:14 PM

Quote :

"1911s are notoriously tempermental. "

It depends on the manufacturer. Also note that Glock is one manufacturer, whereas "1911s" come from dozens, each with their own tweaks/changes to the design. There are in fact 1911s that are just as reliable, if not more, than a Glock.

BUT, it's personal preference. If you have a Glock that feels good, shoots well, and works for you, then by all means keep it. Same goes for a 1911 or any other gun.

[Edited on March 1, 2008 at 8:56 AM. Reason : .]

3/1/2008 8:55:34 AM

when i was first into guns, i thought 1911 was the year of the gun.

i told me brother he is dump for buying a gun that is like 95 years old

anyways, i think we going to sanford today to shoot. trying to find things to gather up and take

3/1/2008 9:26:06 AM

Other than Range1, is there a closer outdoor range?

3/2/2008 12:19:07 AM

so i wanna do some clay shooting...and i have a mossburg 500 persuader with a 18" barrel. obviously i need a longer barrel. should i get a new barrel for it or buy something else more hunting oriented? if its the former whats a good site to get a used barrel (if possible) at? any particular type/options i should be looking for?

3/4/2008 1:03:31 PM