Quote :

"If I put Mac OS X on a PC laptop it does not become a Macbook Pro."

My point was, Google put Android on an HTC Phone and made it a Google phone, I thought you would have caught on to that.

Quote :

"But we'll just let Apple's success with the iPhone (and notebooks, and iPods) speak for their 'stupidity' and let Google Fail and Windows Blows Mobile (pre 7) speak for themselves...k?"

My point was if Palm or Apple opened up their platform to other devices they'd be even BIGGER! Look at the success Android has had, it grew 20% in the marketshare in the last 6 months. Apple on the other hand is stagnant growth.

Quote :

"When I say "Zune Phone" it means a Zune HD that makes phone calls NOT the platform Windows POS 7 or whatever its dubbed."

Quote :

"I wanted a Zune phone...I did not get it. case closed."

You're a genius.

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 7:48 PM. Reason : ;]

2/18/2010 7:47:56 PM

I can't tell if you're being serious and if I should actually take the time to respond seriously.

Quote :

"there's nothing that says you aren't yet"

I'm not speaking for the future...just from what we've seen/heard so far.

[Edited on February 18, 2010 at 8:08 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2010 8:00:45 PM

Prospero: Actually Apple didn't have stagnant growth at all. It had stagnant (actually declining) market SHARE, but it still sold 18% more phone in Q4 than Q3.

What you are seeing is the trick of market share and scale. Android bust on the scene to go from 0 to 4%. Their growth WILL slow as they gain incremental market share, and it will slow exponentially.

And Google has cannibalized their own market by releasing their own branded phone. Other than Motorola, I don't see anyone else jumping on the bandwagon from here on out.

Quote :

"My point was, Google put Android on an HTC Phone and made it a Google phone, I thought you would have caught on to that."

Exactly. If you want a Zune phone that looks like a Zune, go start your own handset manufacturer and build it. I would put everything I own on the fact that Microsoft isn't going to make a MS branded hardware phone device. There may be a "Zune phone" but it'll be under someone else's branding label.

2/19/2010 10:54:07 AM

Quote :

"Look at the success Android has had, it grew 20% in the marketshare in the last 6 months."

You call that success? How many handsets does that count with android from how many different manufactures on how many different carriers?

the iPhone had 27% market share in the first six months with its 1 gimped featureless phone. Controlling the hardware and software works for Apple, get over it.

Quote :

"My point was, Google put Android on an HTC Phone and made it a Google phone, I thought you would have caught on to that."

Not quite the same thing as I am talking about...but ok buddy.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 11:10 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 10:58:02 AM

Yes, I was referring to marketshare, not growth, sorry. I attribute gains in marketshare to be growth and if one marketshare is stagnant and one is increasing, while they both may be experiencing growth, one is clearly growing at a faster rate. I'm not saying one's better than the other, just pointing out that the Android platform is far from a failure.

Quote :

"the iPhone had 27% market share in the first six months with its 1 gimped featureless phone. Controlling the hardware and software works for Apple, get over it."

again, missing my point, the iPhone could be even BETTER and have a LARGER marketshare if it wasn't limited to one carrier.

Quote :

"Other than Motorola, I don't see anyone else jumping on the bandwagon from here on out."

Did you not read about the hundreds of devices on Android at CES? Even AT&T will have 5 android phones by the end of the year.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 11:17 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 11:09:49 AM

Quote :

"again, missing my point, the iPhone could be even BETTER and have a LARGER marketshare if it wasn't limited to one carrier."

But its not limited to one carrier.

You would think with how awesome everything Google is and having 2 dozen phones across multiple carriers on the market they would crush everything else.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 11:20 AM. Reason : less is sometimes more.]

2/19/2010 11:17:31 AM

what other carrier can you use an iPhone on? they have an exclusive deal with AT&T.

the Android devices have been out 6 months, the iPhone what, almost 3 years? i'm not saying that Android devices are better, but i think the fact that they have multiple devices on multiple carriers is helping their cause. it's common sense. particularly when the #1 reason why people won't get the iPhone is because it's on AT&T.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 11:53:02 AM

you can use them on other carriers, just have to pay the price for a factory unlocked phone from apple. tmobile being another main gsm carrier.. although 3g doesnt work so youre stuck with edge on tmobile

2/19/2010 11:56:16 AM

Quote :

"again, missing my point, the iPhone could be even BETTER and have a LARGER marketshare if it wasn't limited to one carrier."

Even I would have to disagree with you there. It's not limited to one carrier. It's limited to one carrier in the US. Which has, in reality, had almost no effect on sales. People hate AT&T but they still switch for the iPhone. Outside of the US, there are MANY regions without carrier exclusivity.

Android is currently growing at a pace to sell ~25million units this year. That is total devices running Android.

Apple is currently growing at a pace to sell ~35 million iPhones this year. Then add the 40 million iPods this year. That puts their platform not only 3x larger than Android, but growing at a faster logarithmic rate (which is the true metric to look at). Then you have the iPad coming out this year that will be platform device #3.

There just isn't any evidence that open platforms grow faster than closed. Each company (Google, MS, Apple, Palm, RIM, Nokia) have very different approaches and motivations for their platforms.

2/19/2010 11:58:53 AM

ok, US alone, yea.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 11:58:58 AM

And tmobile sucks just as bad as at&t. I'm sure sales would be a lot more if you could take the mePhone to verizon

2/19/2010 11:59:40 AM

Quote :

"the Android devices have been out 6 months, the iPhone what, almost 3 years? i'm not saying that Android devices are better, but i think the fact that they have multiple devices on multiple carriers is helping their cause. it's common sense. particularly when the #1 reason why people won't get the iPhone is because it's on AT&T."

Like i said...compare iPhones first 6 months of market share to Androids. That speaks for itself.

1 featureless gimped phone vs. 2 dozen
1 carrier vs. many

Market Share in their respective first 6 months:
27% vs. 20%

obviously having a closed system and being on one carrier doesn't mean shit. it works for Apple fails for Palm.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 12:02:57 PM

^but you're trying to compare a phone that came in to the market with no other competition (for consumer smart phones) vs. a device that's coming in with strong competition at a different time. again, my point was that it's helped Android's cause, i'm not saying it's better, i'm not comparing it to the iPhone.... what i'm trying to say is Android's marketshare could be 4% if they limited themselves to one phone, and i think iPhone could be MUCH higher if they had it on Verizon here in the U.S.

Quote :

"People hate AT&T but they still switch for the iPhone"

i don't know about this, it seems everyone i talk to here is actually considering switching (and some have) FROM AT&T and their beloved iPhone to Verizon and an Android device. but you on the other hand have heard or know people that switch to the iPhone... i don't think it's clear.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 12:03:11 PM

^The numbers speak for themselves. Anecdotes aside, AT&T's attrition rate for smartphone users is heads and shoulders above the other US carriers.

2/19/2010 12:06:16 PM

Quote :

"^but you're trying to compare a phone that came in to the market with no other competition (for consumer smart phones) vs. a device that's coming in with strong competition at a different time. again, my point was that it's helped Android's cause, i'm not saying it's better, i'm not comparing it to the iPhone.... what i'm trying to say is Android's marketshare could be 4% if they limited themselves to one phone, and i think iPhone could be MUCH higher if they had it on Verizon here in the U.S."

You've missed the point.

And yes, there was competition for the iPhone. It wasn't the first to market smartphone by any shot.

2/19/2010 12:08:42 PM

think first, then type.

a) I was the one making the point, so I don't think it's possible for me to miss my own point, nice try.
b) I said consumer (not business) smartphone, hence why your numbers aren't comparable.

Q3 2009, 3.2 million iPhones activated (pre-Android)
Q4 2010, 2.6 million iPhones activated (post-Android release, holiday season no less)

Android has only been out 6 months, and you guys expect it to have the same numbers as an iPhone?

Look at the Palm webOS, incredible OS dare I say just as good or better than the Android, limited to one device, their marketshare is 2-3% and IMHO could be much higher if it was on multiple devices.

Quote :

"There just isn't any evidence that open platforms grow faster than closed. Each company (Google, MS, Apple, Palm, RIM, Nokia) have very different approaches and motivations for their platforms."

I agree there's no direct evidence, since competition, timing, pricing, carriers all differ and go into the decision making process of choosing a phone. But you can make inferences.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:26 PM. Reason : /]

2/19/2010 12:20:26 PM

Pre- great OS, crap hardware. Even verizon isn't gonna help that until they get the hardware to match webOS and the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus aren't the answers

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:26 PM. Reason : ]

2/19/2010 12:25:24 PM

Quote :

"think first, then type. a) I was the one making the point, so I don't think it's possible for me to miss my own point, nice try. b) I said consumer (not business) smartphone Q3 2009, 3.2 million iPhones activated (pre-Android) Q4 2010, 2.6 million iPhones activated (post-Android release, holiday season no less) Android has only been out 6 months, and you guys expect it to have the same numbers as an iPhone? "

think. then type.

You aren't the only one making a point here.

I also made no mention of business smartphones. Like I said, the iPhone was not the first to market consumer smartphone.

And no, I don't expect the Android to post the same numbers as the iPhone hence why I was comparing each of their 'first 6 months' obviously.

Quote :

"Look at the Palm webOS, incredible OS dare I say just as good or better than the Android, limited to one device, their marketshare is 2-3% and IMHO could be much higher if it was on multiple devices."

Is that how its going to be now? We pick and choose our own facts and ignore everything else? Perhaps you should have made no mention of an iPhone. Maybe then you would have a point.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 12:26:35 PM

The iphone was the first to appeal (marketed or not) to the average consumer. Plus you have all of the pre-existing apple users (mac, ipod, itunes, etc) and name recognition. The iPhone foundation was already planted.

2/19/2010 12:29:44 PM

That doesn't change the fact that consumer smartphones pre-iPhone existed.

2/19/2010 12:30:35 PM

^^^ok, i think you're confused here about what we're discussing.

^completely different market, that was my point. you can't just say, because something experienced this growth in 2007 means that some other platform should have similar growth numbers in a saturated market in 2009

Quote :

"Like I said, the iPhone was not the first to market consumer smartphone."

no you did not say "consumer" smartphone, i made that distinction.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:37 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 12:34:10 PM

Quote :

"^^^ok, i think you're confused here about what we're discussing."

That must be it!

2/19/2010 12:36:47 PM

well you sure as hell can't read what i say.

2/19/2010 12:37:20 PM

You make absolutely no sense. Carry on.

You post and post and post but neglect to read anything anybody else posts.

\/ /applause

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 12:37:43 PM

The feeling is mutual.

Yea, ok, whatever, I post and post to keep trying to correct you because you can't comprehend my original point.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 12:38:17 PM

Prospero- he'll argue with a wall. you're just wasting your breathe.

2/19/2010 12:44:01 PM

^allow me to just agree with everything everyone says. Sorry, but I can think for myself.

Quote :

"Yea, ok, whatever, I post and post to keep trying to correct you because you can't comprehend my original point."

because your point is wrong...I bet you never thought of that.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 12:50 PM. Reason : pull your head out of your own ass. I'm done here. Wasted enough of my time.]

2/19/2010 12:48:42 PM

Quote :

"That doesn't change the fact that consumer smartphones pre-iPhone existed."

That is definitely true. The ESPN Samsung phone was a consumer smartphone and it sucked balls.

There have been a number of WinMO and PalmOS "consumer" targeted smartphones over the past decade that never made any real impact.

But that was because they were half-hearted attempts to adapt business phones to a consumer audience, where the iPhone was a reversal of strategy. I don't even know what you two are even arguing about at this point.

2/19/2010 8:38:22 PM

ok, for the 3rd time, there's a difference between entering the market WITHOUT competition and entering a market WITH competition.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 9:02 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 9:01:50 PM

So is this thread about the zune or what?

If so, does this shit have any apps yet? And I'm not talking about the same 15 apps it's always had.

2/19/2010 10:25:07 PM

such great new arguments itt

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 10:30 PM. Reason : j]

2/19/2010 10:29:36 PM

Quote :

"Outside of the US, there are MANY regions without carrier exclusivity."

Which regions would that be? In Japan it's exclusive to Softbank. In Australia I believe it's Vodafone it's exclusive to.

Not trying to be a jerk, sincerely curious where Apple has allowed the iPhone to operate on multiple carriers.

Quote :

"So is this thread about the zune or what? If so, does this shit have any apps yet? And I'm not talking about the same 15 apps it's always had."

I, too, would like to know this.

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 10:53 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 10:47:56 PM

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937

Canada, UK, France, Italy, India and Australia to name a few.

2/19/2010 11:01:00 PM

Egypt, Israel to name a few more.

Quote :

"Not trying to be a jerk, sincerely curious where Apple has allowed the iPhone to operate on multiple carriers."

You should look to Verizon as to why they don't have the iPhone...not Apple. After all they did approach Verizon first but they refused to play ball (good thing too).

[Edited on February 19, 2010 at 11:05 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2010 11:03:20 PM

could have sworn this was the zune hd thread...

backing out slowly now, carry on

2/20/2010 12:40:42 AM

It is.
My Zune account has 9,000 plays, my device is temperamental but works well enough, and American Psycho looks great on 3".

2/20/2010 1:48:29 AM

What do you mean by temperamental?

2/21/2010 6:41:09 AM

Mine crashes probably once a week, but it's not a big deal, just reboots instead of plays the song I clicked on. Also, sometimes the screen takes a minute to start displaying when I click the fast button to go to the next song or change the volume, if it's been playing music for a long time but not displaying anything. But the touchscreen still works so I can just touch where I know the image would be and it still works.

Audiosurf is still fun.

2/22/2010 9:47:03 AM

^is this a Zune or Zune HD?

2/22/2010 11:13:19 AM

HD

2/22/2010 12:51:31 PM

I've stuck with Zune since it was first released; I got the first Zune a couple weeks after it was released. I took it with me everywhere... snowboarding, Caribbean, soccer, running... everywhere. I'd definitely recommend the Zune HD (a wicked good friend of mine has one... so sick).

2/22/2010 5:45:56 PM

Quote :

"(a wicked good friend of mine has one... so sick)"

I loled

2/22/2010 5:51:18 PM

I'm from massachusetts... sorry?

2/22/2010 5:55:03 PM

heh I haven:t heard wicked as an adverb since I was a kid.

2/22/2010 8:18:00 PM

WICKED SICK

2/22/2010 10:23:01 PM

Quote :

"WICKED SICK"

I wholeheartedly approve.

2/22/2010 11:16:20 PM

Now in 64gb!

4/16/2010 10:13:16 PM

[old]

4/16/2010 10:22:47 PM

wait, so people are actually buying these things? when i worked at Target for a year (Electronics Boat, what what), not a single person asked me about our Zune display. but we'd take iPods out all day long.

4/16/2010 10:24:16 PM

^not really but they released a 64gb none the less....although noen will probably come in here and disagree.

after using a friend of mines briefly the UI wasn't nearly as nice as I had expected.

[Edited on April 16, 2010 at 10:26 PM. Reason : .]

4/16/2010 10:26:19 PM