Quote :

"yes I shouldve put alleged crime and corruption. for all of the whistle-blowing and the bad shit being exposed (according to Assange and posters here), there doesnt seem to be much in the way of indictments, public outcry or resignations, etc...."

Ahhh yes here comes the application of Just World Syndrome

If there are no charges then there must have been no wrongdoing! Maybe the leaks don't really say anything after all! Maybe I can trust the media to read them for me . . . maybe . . . things are really okay after all . . . and not so bad . . . .
(READ THE FUCKING LEAKS)

12/7/2010 10:09:11 AM

there's a difference between leaks saying something and there being crimes to arrest people for.

of course the government isn't going to willingly help people publish classified material, redacted or not. that would be tantamount to paying off a terrorist who holds someone hostage.

as i said in the CC thread: if he does something in another country that's considered rape, he doesn't get a free pass just because it's not that bad here. it'd be like an adult from Italy coming over here and having sex with a 14 year old in California, where the legal age is 18. he's not innocent of statutory rape just because in his country it's OK

you people are the punchline to the joke "think how stupid the average american is then realize half the country is dumber than that"

12/7/2010 10:20:12 AM

If unprotected consensual sex is rape, then consider me Miles Daves!!

12/7/2010 10:26:37 AM

^^ trumped up charges bro.

12/7/2010 10:34:05 AM

Quote :

"that would be tantamount to paying off a terrorist who holds someone hostage."

Oh so we'd be reducing ourselves to a move Reagan pulled. Except we wouldn't really be paying off a terrorist this time.

Quote :

"you people are the punchline to the joke "think how stupid the average american is then realize half the country is dumber than that""

Says the sheep who shucks and jives for his master lol
You really should get around to reading the information

Quote :

"as i said in the CC thread: if he does something in another country that's considered rape, he doesn't get a free pass just because it's not that bad here. it'd be like an adult from Italy coming over here and having sex with a 14 year old in California, where the legal age is 18. he's not innocent of statutory rape just because in his country it's OK"

Wow you're dumb enough to go for the bait congratulations! You make such a good American*

*21st century American; corporate shill

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 10:35 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 10:34:18 AM

Quote :

"Except we wouldn't really be paying off a terrorist this time."

perhaps that's why I used the word "tantamount"

and when all you've got is "shucks and jives" and "shill" it's pretty easy to see you've got no real substance to your position

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 10:42 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 10:41:02 AM

Quote :

"perhaps that's why I used the word "tantamount" and when all you've got is "shucks and jives" and "shill" it's pretty easy to see you've got no real substance to your position"

How many of the leaks have you read? I'll go ahead and allow you to lie for the sake of internet cred, but you personally know how many you read. Take that feeling of mild embarrassment and convert it into an education

Quote :

"perhaps that's why I used the word "tantamount""

I was distinguishing what you consider equal to paying off a terrorist with an actual event where the conservative God actually paid off terrorists.

Haha I'm the one with no substance to my position; only somebody wholly ignorant could say that. Why haven't you read the leaks?

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 10:46 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 10:44:23 AM

Quote :

"Massa says don't access the files"

Classy. I honestly would have expected more out of you.


And on the subject of obtaining govt. jobs, and other job that require a clearance... this type of thing is EXACTLY what is evaluated. Your credibility, your credit, your personal life, your ability to safeguard information, past transgressions, your ability to keep secret information, illegal activities, etc. There's no arguing with that..... its just what happens. I've been through the process, and have had to interview others going through the process.
No, I will not read classified documents illegally. It very well could effect my job, and lead to my property being seized and sanitized.

12/7/2010 10:48:15 AM

I think most people who haven't read any of the leaks (but have strong opinions against them) are simply afraid of what they will learn about the 'perfect' country they live in.

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 10:49 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 10:49:21 AM

Quote :

"Classy. I honestly would have expected more out of you."

lol i noticed the racial element there a bit late; you're certainly not the only one I've pointed out to be a slave though. Best I can do is apologize for being insensitive there, wasn't exactly intentional.

Quote :

"And on the subject of obtaining govt. jobs, and other job that require a clearance... this type of thing is EXACTLY what is evaluated. Your credibility, your credit, your personal life, your ability to safeguard information, past transgressions, your ability to keep secret information, illegal activities, etc. There's no arguing with that..... its just what happens. I've been through the process, and have had to interview others going through the process. No, I will not read classified documents illegally. It very well could effect my job, and lead to my property being seized and sanitized."

Look I like you but I'm not letting you slide on this. Why are you even discussing these leaks if you're not looking at them? You're 100% ignorant by definition.

You're basically saying "if you want in on this sweet ass cheddar distribution system, you'd better shut up and not rock the boat. You'd better allow people to keep running train on the average American and on whichever foreign countries obstruct our oligarchy's goals and aims." Are you serious? I really had no idea that you were a made-ass bitch all the way down to your core. You could really give a fuck what they do with your labor so long as you get paid?

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 10:49:37 AM

Quote :

""that would be tantamount to paying off a terrorist who holds someone hostage.""

Or would it be more similar to the government responding to a request from the media to redact potentially damaging information from a document before it's release.
It is pretty strange that Assange is being arrested for a sex crime and not his evil terrorist plot isn't it?

12/7/2010 10:52:04 AM

Quote :

"It is pretty strange that Assange is being arrested for a sex crime and not his evil terrorist plot isn't it?"

Haha he got arrested for the sex crime of throwing the gov't in the pornoscanner rather than a submissive American

Nobody likes to see this government's junk

12/7/2010 10:53:16 AM

So... go back and read what I've said in this thread. I think you'll find it has less to do with the leaked information... and more to do with security breaches, the illegality of leaking the information, information aggregation, and future govt. jobs.

12/7/2010 10:56:23 AM

So the story goes, Interpol will have orders to arrest Dick Cheney. Bribery charges are being brought against him and Interpol will issue the warrant. He is being charged with conspiracy in the $180 million bribery of a corrupt foreign official. Now it is speculated, that the recent documents exposed by WikiLeaks may help bring charges.

12/7/2010 10:58:10 AM

Quote :

"So... go back and read what I've said in this thread. I think you'll find it has less to do with the leaked information... and more to do with security breaches, the illegality of leaking the information, information aggregation, and future govt. jobs."

Of course it's illegal. Do you think they'd want you to know what they're up to? If every citizen in this country found out what they were responsible for, these people would be thrown out of power.

The official position you're repeating in here is "remember kids you must be kept in the dark by your employer to play ball, even though literally everybody else in the world knows the truth". Ahahahah. At this point it's just damage control, simple and plain. Everybody else knows what they're up to, but the citizens don't yet. Better threaten them to keep their power base secure! And hatchet men like you carry weight faithfully

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 11:03 AM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 11:00:21 AM

I don't know why I'd care that Reagan paid off terrorists 2+ decades ago or what it has to do with my opinion on this issue.

12/7/2010 11:12:15 AM

So, ill attempt to sift through your bullshit to answer what appear to be your questions

Do I see classified info? Yes

Did I promise not to engage in illegal activity to get a clearance: Yes

Did I promise to safeguard classified material, and only access it on a need to know basis on classified machines: yes





Hey man... I'm fully capable of expressing my own thoughts... I don't need you to extrapolate some hidden meaning from my words to prove your silly points... cause frankly, you're not doing a very good job at it. Thx.

12/7/2010 11:15:17 AM

Quote :

"Saddam, confused by America's response, released this conversation a few weeks after the invasion. The Wikileaks cables have now confirmed it."

Do you have a link for that?

12/7/2010 11:27:36 AM

^^ Does the rest of the world have access to this classified info? Yes
So the government is asking you to be ignorant of generally available material in order to be employable? You do realize of course that you might not want to read this thread anymore because one of us could reference classified information. Or the media might reference some classified information.

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 11:39 AM. Reason : ^]

12/7/2010 11:37:53 AM

Quote :

"If there are no charges then there must have been no wrongdoing! Maybe the leaks don't really say anything after all! Maybe I can trust the media to read them for me . . . maybe . . . things are really okay after all . . . and not so bad . . . . (READ THE FUCKING LEAKS)"

I said nothing about reading the leaks or interpreting them. I asked if anyone has gotten in trouble from anything contained therein. From reading this thread, the vast oceans of conspiratorial corruption and wrongdoing exposed by the Batman of our time should be cascading over the bodies of fallen politicians, military officials and dirty businessmen...if not now, very soon.

So I say again...have any actual crimes been exposed? Has there been something brought to light that you believe will bring about prosecution? I am asking this because it makes a difference. If someone is found to be corrupt via these dumps, it would change my opinion (somewhat) on wikileaks.

12/7/2010 11:41:46 AM

^^ Yeah, ok...

Yeah, ok, all of that has already been addressed. I'm just going to assume that you're no longer reading the thread, and are just scrolling through TWW looking for flashy colorful things to catch your attention. Here you go...
L
O
L

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 11:50 AM. Reason : ahh, the wonders of a smart phone. i hate typing with my thumbs. no good comes from it]

12/7/2010 11:47:27 AM

Quote :

"Do you have a link for that?"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,733153,00.html

12/7/2010 11:54:02 AM

So you are ok with the government telling you to not access widely available information because it is "classified"? Classified documents are no longer classified when EVERYONE has access to them.

You also are completely ignoring the fact that the big bad terrorist responsible for releasing all of this classified information is being arrested for a sex charge and not for his evil terrorist plot.

Yeah I REALLY trust the government right now

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 12:02 PM. Reason : ohh and I was only halfway kidding about not being on this thread you might want to watch your ass. ]

12/7/2010 12:01:09 PM

Quote :

"So, ill attempt to sift through your bullshit to answer what appear to be your questions Do I see classified info? Yes Did I promise not to engage in illegal activity to get a clearance: Yes Did I promise to safeguard classified material, and only access it on a need to know basis on classified machines: yes Hey man... I'm fully capable of expressing my own thoughts... I don't need you to extrapolate some hidden meaning from my words to prove your silly points... cause frankly, you're not doing a very good job at it. Thx."

Of course you don't "need to know" that the government has been aggressively protecting our oligarchy's interests overseas, resulting in the deaths of foreign nationals and the weakening of our reputation (lessening our safety and position). If you did know, it might impair your ability to do your work in good conscience. Much better not to know the ill uses for which your labor is used, from their perspective. Shut up and get fat!

Quote :

"^^ Does the rest of the world have access to this classified info? Yes So the government is asking you to be ignorant of generally available material in order to be employable? You do realize of course that you might not want to read this thread anymore because one of us could reference classified information. Or the media might reference some classified information."

It's official: to work for the government you must be uneducated.

Quote :

"I said nothing about reading the leaks or interpreting them. I asked if anyone has gotten in trouble from anything contained therein. From reading this thread, the vast oceans of conspiratorial corruption and wrongdoing exposed by the Batman of our time should be cascading over the bodies of fallen politicians, military officials and dirty businessmen...if not now, very soon. "

This is hilariously naive.

Quote :

"So I say again...have any actual crimes been exposed? Has there been something brought to light that you believe will bring about prosecution? I am asking this because it makes a difference. If someone is found to be corrupt via these dumps, it would change my opinion (somewhat) on wikileaks."

You haven't even read the leaks; how am I supposed to have a discussion with you? Also, is "legality" really what you're concerned about here? You're curious whether our rogue government lives up to the standards it sets for itself? Lol

I don't believe any prosecution will result of this in the US, but I don't believe that has anything to do with the legitimacy of any of this. Do you really think we'll take down servicemen over their failure to report Iraqi torture? To do this would "allow men like Assange influence" or some BS like that. The government will ignore this as much as they can and hope that sheep like you continue to listen to things "on a need to know basis".

12/7/2010 12:15:58 PM

Quote :

"It's official: to work for the government you must be uneducated. "

this has been true forever

12/7/2010 12:25:36 PM

Quote :

"So you are ok with the government telling you to not access widely available information because it is "classified"? Classified documents are no longer classified when EVERYONE has access to them."

That statement is 100% false. Thanks for playing though.

12/7/2010 12:47:25 PM

How good does ignorance feel? Around 60K a year?

12/7/2010 12:50:24 PM

Quote :

"Quote : "So you are ok with the government telling you to not access widely available information because it is "classified"? Classified documents are no longer classified when EVERYONE has access to them." That statement is 100% false. Thanks for playing though. "

Available to authorized persons only, as for reasons of national security: a classified document.

These documents are available to EVERYONE not just authorized people. Thanks for playing though...


OHH BUT DON'T READ MY POST IF YOU EVER WANT TO WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE IT PERTAINS TO CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS! AMERICA FUCK YEAH!

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 12:55 PM. Reason : adfasdf]

12/7/2010 12:53:28 PM

What exactly am I ignorant of?

The content of the material leaked? ::shrug::

Have you read 100% of all the documents leaked? If no, does that make you ignorant?

12/7/2010 12:54:12 PM

Quote :

" Available to authorized persons only, as for reasons of national security: a classified document. These documents are available to EVERYONE not just authorized people. Thanks for playing though..."

Do you routinely work with classified, secret or TS material? What is your current clearance? Are you familiar with all the training, background checks required to get clearance? Are you familiar with current US Code and Regulations regarding the possession, viewing, and transferring or said restricted files?

12/7/2010 12:56:30 PM

Quote :

"Do you routinely work with classified, secret or TS material? What is your current clearance? Are you familiar with all the training, background checks required to get clearance? Are you familiar with current US Code and Regulations regarding the possession, viewing, and transferring or said restricted files?"

You're asking if people know the code of silence as written by criminals lol

You are so fucking programmed

Quote :

"What exactly am I ignorant of? The content of the material leaked? ::shrug:: Have you read 100% of all the documents leaked? If no, does that make you ignorant?"

It makes me partially ignorant, yes. This is not the same as being wholly ignorant such as yourself.

You are shrugging off information you have not seen. You're taking your government's word for it that you don't need to see it. Meanwhile, the entire world has seen it. Don't you see a problem with this? They are trying to hide their wrongdoing from you because they're afraid you have a shred of contemporary moral sentiment in you.

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 1:00:14 PM

Fun fact.

You think our government is full of murderers, liars, criminals.

Yet the strongest thing you have ever done to prevent it, correct me if I'm wrong, is whine about it on a message board.

12/7/2010 1:08:22 PM

Quote :

"Fun fact. You think our government is full of murderers, liars, criminals. Yet the strongest thing you have ever done to prevent it, correct me if I'm wrong, is whine about it on a message board."

What would you suggest I do other than spread awareness? The best shot at changing things without any violence is to let people know what system they're driving with their labor/votes/capital

12/7/2010 1:21:30 PM

Still paying taxes?

12/7/2010 1:23:34 PM

Quote :

"What exactly am I ignorant of? The content of the material leaked? ::shrug:: Have you read 100% of all the documents leaked? If no, does that make you ignorant?"

So lets flesh this little statement out. You think it is ok for you to be completely illiterate because he can only read on a highschool level? Really?

Most of the world has access to these documents yet the US is very concerned about hiding the information from it's own employees and citizens. Nothing to see here right?

Quote :

"Fun fact. You think our government is full of murderers, liars, criminals. Yet the strongest thing you have ever done to prevent it, correct me if I'm wrong, is whine about it on a message board."

More than anything the governments response to this leak has made me more concerned about the level of corruption.

12/7/2010 1:23:50 PM

Quote :

"Still paying taxes?"

Yes I am, and to this extent, I'm complicit as well.

12/7/2010 1:27:41 PM

^^ Still waiting for you to answer my questions or can you admit you have no idea what you're talking about when you tried to define 'Classified'

I follow lawful orders, I also have clearance, part of that is knowing the appropriate way to handle and read classified materials. I have not regretted anything I've done in the military nor do I believe anything I've done was immoral or unlawful, my conscience is clean.

None gov't workers, I have zero issues with them reading the stuff. If it's that much of a problem, perhaps they should vote in different people to office or do something else constructive.

^zomg you're funding the murderers!!!!!!

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 1:31 PM. Reason : k]

12/7/2010 1:30:39 PM

get back to me when a crime has been committed and uncovered by one of these wikileaks document dumps. until then, color me unimpressed and of the opinion Assange and Manning should be placed in front of a firing squad.

12/7/2010 1:32:56 PM

Quote :

"^zomg you're funding the murderers!!!!!!"

Now you understand why this upsets me so much.

At least I'm not defending their "right" to murder (as Americans) like you are. In fact you don't even want the discussion of their right to be doing what they're doing to enter the light; you'd rather they do whatever they're doing in the dark (from OUR population, not from others).

You are actively aiding them. I want the system to change so that my taxes don't get split between taking care of essentials and taking care of the rich (at the expense of literally everybody else, myself, yourself, our people, and foreign nationals)

Quote :

"get back to me when a crime has been committed and uncovered by one of these wikileaks document dumps. until then, color me unimpressed and of the opinion Assange and Manning should be placed in front of a firing squad."

Ahahaha you motherfucking idiot

[Edited on December 7, 2010 at 1:33 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2010 1:33:26 PM

Ok Mr. Keyboard hero....its time to get a ahold of yourself and stop letting your goddammit imagination run away with you. I don't think anyone here is even saying our government is 100% right. You're sitting here making up statements (that no one in this thread is making) and arguing with them.

12/7/2010 1:34:55 PM

Manning violated all sorts of orders, rules and regulation. Stick him in a hole in Leavenworth.

12/7/2010 1:35:03 PM

Quote :

"Do you routinely work with classified, secret or TS material? What is your current clearance? Are you familiar with all the training, background checks required to get clearance? Are you familiar with current US Code and Regulations regarding the possession, viewing, and transferring or said restricted files?"

Nope yet somehow I have access to this information if I so desire. Therefore the files are no longer classified in nature because EVERYONE has access to them... Pretty simple logic.

Quote :

" get back to me when a crime has been committed and uncovered by one of these wikileaks document dumps. until then, color me unimpressed and of the opinion Assange and Manning should be placed in front of a firing squad."

Up to this point I must agree that I am fairly unimpressed. However I have pretty low expectations of our (or any countries) foreign policy. Once information on domestic financial policies is revealed I expect to get a little more irritated.

12/7/2010 1:39:01 PM

Quote :

"Ok Mr. Keyboard hero....its time to get a ahold of yourself and stop letting your goddammit imagination run away with you. I don't think anyone here is even saying our government is 100% right. You're sitting here making up statements (that no one in this thread is making) and arguing with them"

Oh is that so?

How would you know I'm letting my imagination run away with me or not? You're not allowed to see the truth.

12/7/2010 1:40:44 PM

Quote :

"Nope yet somehow I have access to this information if I so desire. Therefore the files are no longer classified in nature because EVERYONE has access to them... Pretty simple logic."

Then you have absolutely no idea what the term 'classified' means. It still is classified and must be treated as such by those who are subjected to the rules of handling that material.

12/7/2010 1:40:57 PM

Quote :

"Then you have absolutely no idea what the term 'classified' means. It still is classified and must be treated as such by those who are subjected to the rules of handling that material."

The only practical upshot of maintaining classified status here is to maintain legal recourse against citizens seeking this information. Seeing as how THE ENTIRE WORLD HAS READ THESE DOCUMENTS, I wonder why the U.S. would try to punish its own citizens for doing the same? What possible motivation could they have?

Oh right you have no idea because you haven't read the war logs or the cables

12/7/2010 1:42:26 PM

Show me one example of a US citizen (non gov't worker) being prosecuted for viewing this data.

Show me one example of a US citizen (gov't worker) being prosecuted for viewing this data (beyond being reminded they shouldn't be reading it)

12/7/2010 1:45:53 PM

Haha, I can tell you're letting your imagination run away with you because youre sitting here arguing against a position that you made up entirely on your own.

12/7/2010 1:47:56 PM

So you are fine with everyone else in the world viewing these "classified" documents however because they are deemed classified by your government you think it is unacceptable for you to view them? REALLY? Nothing to see here because the government told me not to look!
Furthermore the definition of classified is: (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Government (of information) not available to people outside a restricted group, esp for reasons of national security

THIS INFO IS AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE THEREFORE IT IS NO LONGER CLASSIFIED by very definition this is true.

Maybe we should find a new term for these documents "unreadable by good US citizens because the government is your friend and is only looking out for you"

12/7/2010 1:49:10 PM

I follow lawful orders, not just ones I personally agree with.

In the grand scheme of things, I follow the orders of my CinC elected by you and other citizens. Blame yourself if you think I'm doing something wrong.

12/7/2010 1:56:20 PM

I don't know what to tell ya, dude. That's not the definition the govt. uses when classifying documents. it has more to do with the damage category information falls in were it to be made public and less with the fact that it has been made public

12/7/2010 2:00:12 PM