Quote :

"in the face of massive local opposition and without holding any serious public forums about it."

the cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

9/21/2016 7:19:23 PM

I don't call forums where opponents aren't allowed to speak a "serious public forum." So, no, the "cognitive dissonance is not strong with this one." That Pat McCrory and the NCGA didn't allow public comment either isn't an excuse for Charlotte ramming this through.

9/21/2016 7:26:06 PM

Quote :

"Voter fraud is comparatively more common than people being harassed over their choice of bathroom."

There have been 150 cases of voter fraud?

9/21/2016 7:41:09 PM

You're not good with numbers, are you? Or words for that matter

9/21/2016 7:48:44 PM

I guess not. Would you care to explain?

If there have been 150 complaints of people being harassed over their choice of bathroom, and voter fraud is more common, shouldn't there be at least 150 cases of voter fraud?

Or am I missing something?

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 8:40 PM. Reason : ]

9/21/2016 8:33:40 PM

Sure... I'll use this statistic from WaPo of 31 instances of voter fraud out of 1billion ballots cast over a span of 14 years. I question the stat, because I think it's too low, but whatever, I can work with it.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/) Anyway, that means that the incidence of voter fraud is 3.1 in 100M.

Let's assume that there are 1.5million people in Charlotte every day, working (estimated # of jobs in CLT is 1.1mill), in school (140k students), hanging out (the regional population is ~2.3mill), whatever. Let's assume that those people use the bathroom twice per day in a public facility (and that's a low estimate). That's ~3M public bathroom trips per day. Multiply by 365 days a year and that's ~1.1B public bathroom trips per year. The claim above is 150 complaints of bathroom harassment, but it doesn't state the time frame. If that time frame is 5 years or more (and it probably is), you have an incidence of harassment per bathroom trip of no more than 2.74 in 100M.

So, using a generously low estimate of voter fraud and a generously high estimate of bathroom harassment, you still end up with more voter fraud than bathroom harassment.

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 9:54 PM. Reason : Changed 100k to 100M, same difference]

9/21/2016 9:29:09 PM

31 per 1 billion is not 3.1 per 100k

9/21/2016 9:33:50 PM

Sorry, it's 3.1/100M vs 2.74/100M. Derp. TWW needs peer review

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 9:55 PM. Reason : ]

9/21/2016 9:53:40 PM

MM is million

M is thousand (but k is also used to represent thousands)

[Edited on September 21, 2016 at 10:53 PM. Reason : i guess you were going for M = mega = millions]

9/21/2016 10:51:28 PM

Oh lawd, the MM vs M argument again.

9/21/2016 11:31:54 PM

Charlotte also said that most complaints were not recorded anywhere on account of the city having no recourse, 150 instances is only what they could identify but more complaints exist.

There was plenty of public debate foe the Charlotte ordinance, it was in the media and talked about before the council met. The council meeting itself lasted hours with people from both sides speaking. The Charlotte ordinance was not rushed through without any input.

And the voter fraud analogy is dumb and you should feel dumb.

9/22/2016 6:45:20 AM

Quote :

"So what's wrong here? Charlotte passes an ordinance that it didn't need to pass, and in the process makes life HARDER on LGBTQ people across the whole damn state! AND, they passed this unnecessary it ordinance knowing that the NCGA was going to do something stupid in response! Transgendered people weren't being harassed at the bathrooms before Charlotte passed their ordinance. Now they are. Charlotte didn't stand to gain a single fucking thing by passing the bathroom part of the ordinance, but it risked losing a hell of a lot in the inevitable overreaction by the NCGA. Why pick that a fight where winning gains you nothing and losing costs you and your allies all across the state a metric shit ton?"

The state government made this harder on the LGBTQ community, not Charlotte. Get that straight.

The Charlotte ordinance stood to gain Charlotte nothing except making sure all of it's citizens could feel safe doing their personal business without fear of being run out on a rail by backwards minded bigots.

In the end I'm sure we would have wound up seeing some form of HB2 pass through the NCGA, Charlotte just happened to be the scapegoat to rush it through. Don't believe me? Look at all the other provisions snuck in under the bathroom provision.

9/22/2016 8:55:23 AM

Quote :

"Charlotte didn't stand to gain a single fucking thing by passing the bathroom part of the ordinance, but it risked losing a hell of a lot in the inevitable overreaction by the NCGA."

The response was not "inevitable," and its being (easily) avoidable makes the rest of your post invalid.

The NCGA could have, should have, just sat quietly and let it slide. First because the Charlotte ordinance is both morally right and legally sound. Second because it should not be the business of state government to fuck with municipal laws. Third because HB2 was much more obviously and inevitably going to be a net problem-causer.

But even if our legislators were too thick and stupid to see the backlash in advance, they can damn sure see it now. And yet they refuse to repeal it. Let's bear in mind here that Charlotte repealing its ordinance fixes nothing. But the NCGA repealing HB2 fixes a lot, and spares the state the embarrassment that it will face when the courts have to overturn it for us, making us look too backwards and fucked up to take care of it ourselves.

9/22/2016 9:13:07 AM

Refusing to repeal it at this point has nothing to do with what is actually right or wrong.

Such a big deal has been made about this on a national level, then if they repeal it now, they're admitting defeat, admitting that they might have been wrong, etc.

They're not going to do that.

9/22/2016 9:42:18 AM

That voting analogy is almost as terrible as Trump Jr's skittles analogy...on a human level it's not as horrid, but on a statistical level it's fairly terrible

9/22/2016 9:46:39 AM

^^I know. And their refusal to do what's right just to avoid admitting defeat is a big part of the reason I'm going to gleefully vote for the other guys.

9/22/2016 10:04:28 AM

Quote :

"I look at it like this... I know people who drive ~3-4mph over the speed limit in most places. Could they be ticketed for speeding like that? Sure. Are they? Basically never. Do those people seriously live in fear over it? Not in the least."

That's a shitty analogy.

As a practical matter, speedometers generally aren't accurate enough for police to make a habit of ticketing 'lite' speeders. Nonetheless, it's no secret police use minor violations of the law as a pretext for detention, searches and investigations they otherwise lack evidence and probable cause for. It's also no secret that prosecutors frequently use any charge possible--no matter how tenuous the connection to the actual crime--as leverage for plea deals. Selective enforcement and prosecutorial discretion are powerful tools to harass and compel compliance.

Maybe transgendered folks weren't living in fear of how there next shit was going to turn out (or taxi ride, hotel stay, etc). That doesn't mean they won't be in the future.

9/22/2016 3:39:43 PM

Quote :

"The Charlotte ordinance stood to gain Charlotte nothing except making sure all of it's citizens could feel safe doing their personal business without fear of being run out on a rail by backwards minded bigots."

Except they already more or less had that tacitly, because hardly anyone was noticing it. Now, they've got a law explicitly in the opposite, and everyone is being fucking bathroom police. And it was completely predictable that that would be the result. Charlotte's ordinance stood to lose basically everything and gain absolutely nothing. And that's what they got.

Quote :

"The response was not "inevitable," and its being (easily) avoidable makes the rest of your post invalid."

I know you've been in Africa for the past couple years, but have you caught up on the NCGA's shenanigans yet? They are certifiably insane. Their absurd response was entirely predictable, because they even said they would do something drastic. Should the NCGA have sat on their hands? Of course. Was there any chance they would? Hell no.

^ It's really not a shitty analogy, though. If you are going over the speed limit, you are breaking the law. Yet no one is scared of getting a ticket over it. It's a law which isn't enforced. Likewise, there was no bathroom enforcement prior to Charlotte's ordinance being passed. There were no bathroom police. Hell, that's one of the arguments against HB2: that transgendered people were using the bathrooms they wanted and nobody even noticed. You are right that they weren't living in fear of their next shit. But thanks to Charlotte pushing this bill when they weren't fearing their next shit, they now ARE fearing their next shit. And they gained nothing over it.

9/25/2016 11:36:00 PM

Remember when the NBA and NCAA pulled a bunch of events because of the Charlotte law? Me neither.

9/26/2016 1:13:23 AM

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/emmbcg/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-putting-north-carolina-s-anti-lgbt-law-to-the-test

9/30/2016 1:32:05 PM

which part of HB2 is that about? did raleigh have protection for public accommodations based on sexual orientation that HB2 superseded?

9/30/2016 1:50:12 PM

So is he responsible for Coal Ash? is that on his hands?

9/30/2016 2:24:29 PM

I think he is seen as responsible for the slap on the wrist of Duke Energy

[Edited on September 30, 2016 at 2:36 PM. Reason : ]

9/30/2016 2:36:17 PM

Don't forget if Hurricane Matthew comes ashore in NC that he squandered disaster relief funds to defend HB2.

10/2/2016 10:17:28 AM

That's already hit us living out here.

10/2/2016 7:09:41 PM

dude didn't know how to pronounce the county seat of Pender County

-1

10/8/2016 8:00:43 PM

later, Pat

11/28/2016 8:40:25 PM

11/28/2016 9:13:13 PM

Goodnight Sweet Pat

11/28/2016 9:33:08 PM

Lead is over 10,000 now which would lead to no right to automatic recount.

Surely he needs to drop this now?

11/30/2016 3:37:22 PM

Apparently not... just received the go ahead for the recount for Durham county

http://www.businessinsider.com/north-carolina-recount-durham-county-pat-mccrory-roy-cooper-2016-11

I really wish this oaf would just concede, there is a reason he will be the first NC governor to lose re-election...

12/1/2016 8:21:46 AM

A partisan election board defeats the purpose doesn't it.

Recount all you want, McCrory. You ran the worst campaign in political history to be in the position you are given the large Trump/Burr wins.

12/1/2016 9:20:55 AM

I don't think it was the campaign that did him in

it was the 4 years of being an awful governor

12/1/2016 9:47:30 AM

Quote :

"You ran the worst campaign in political history to be in the position you are given the large Trump/Burr wins."

Are ya sure?

12/1/2016 6:48:50 PM

Quote :

"given the large Trump/Burr wins"

12/1/2016 7:14:32 PM

bye

12/5/2016 12:09:36 PM

12/5/2016 1:11:58 PM

https://ncridiculousness.wordpress.com/2016/11/13/i-77-toll-33000-votes/

An analysis indicating McCrory lost some 30,000+ votes up and down the I77 corridor, likely due to the ongoing toll road fiasco. It was a plan that never made sense (except that it would have lined the pockets of conservative real estate developers in the area), but they just kept doubling down on it. One could even argue that HB2 was meant to directly distract these northern Charlotte suburbs, but being able to get to work > icky people in the wrong bathroom.

12/7/2016 10:00:44 AM

^^ LOL

12/7/2016 10:23:35 AM

So now he finds a place with Trump?

Wow, didn't think he would go anywhere from here, I don't blame him for dumping this losing effort for that gig.

12/9/2016 1:06:48 AM

well i mean, duh, he wouldn't have conceded if he hadn't already been offered something

12/9/2016 9:29:08 AM

New cabinet office. Department of LGBTQ Relations.

12/9/2016 10:00:46 AM

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article121885658.html

Seriously - fuck this guy...

12/20/2016 2:36:52 PM

dallas woodhouse looks like a dollar store generic version of joey from friends

12/20/2016 2:56:20 PM

Inclined to believe that the SC additions provisions were on one of those bills

Disinclined to believe that McCrory battled to have the court remain the same size.

12/20/2016 3:00:18 PM

http://wlos.com/news/local/video-pat-mccrory-reflects-on-his-term-as-governor

Good god, What a whiny little bitch. There is something I deeply despise about failed "leadership" that refuses to accept any blame whatsoever.

1/2/2017 10:52:08 AM

All I know is NC has had two shitty one term governors in a row and people are still moving here. Imagine what could happen with some good leadership.

1/2/2017 11:39:19 AM

I just saw an interview with McCrory, he said something like "These people shouldn't be putting on their stupid hat and protesting something that should be common sense"... but then went on to say that he agrees that NC should "reopen". They're just dumb to protest the way they are.

4/22/2020 5:08:25 PM

He used the "stupid-hat" line during one of the winter events.

4/22/2020 10:17:18 PM

He's running for Burr's vacant US Senate seat

https://indyweek.com/news/66-reasons-vote-pat-mccrory/ [old]

4/14/2021 2:57:35 PM