This points system is an absolute joke. It's fake excitement that builds this kind of shit racing. You no longer have to be the faster car...just wreck them and say you wanted to continue your season...that's OK by nascar!! I used to stand up for nascar but no more until they change this bullcrap. I hope newman wins the whole damn thing with a crowd pleasing 7th place finish next weekend so everyone can point and laugh at nascar for the next 3 months

11/9/2014 10:13:11 PM

If NASCAR wanted to prioritize winning, which I agree with, the goal is not to give people an automatic pass to the next stage of the championship process, but to spread out the points given in your system. The reason it was designed like it was back in the day was to incentivize teams and drivers to show up to every race. We don't have that problem anymore.

A points system I thought was pretty close to damn near perfect was the old CART points system, which was based on the USAC points system.

1st-20, 2nd-16, 3rd-14, 4th-12, 5th-10, 6th-8, 7th-6, 8th-5, 9th-4, 10th-3, 11th-2, 12th-1

A point for the pole and leading the most laps.

In this points system, two 5ths equal one win. In the current NASCAR system, two 20ths equal one win. So finishing higher up is greatly increased in importance in the CART system.

If NASCAR are upset about no one below 12th getting points, just do what USAC did in the late '70s which was multiple all the numbers above by 10 and then add points underneath.

1st-200, 2nd-160, 3rd-140...12th-10, 13th thru 16th-5, 17th thru 20th-4, 21st thru 24th-3, 25th thru 28th-2, 29th onward-1

[Edited on November 10, 2014 at 8:59 AM. Reason : .]

11/10/2014 8:51:36 AM

Newman's 2014 Season (including Chase)

4 Top 5s
15 Top 10s
0 Poles
41 laps led

Avg finish 13.0

1.Chicago=15th
2.Loudon=18th
3.Dover=8th

4.Kansas=6th
5.Charlotte=7th
6.Talladega=5th

7.Martinsville=3rd
8.Texas=15th
9.Phoenix-11th

I posted this on the front page of this thread 9 months ago.

Quote :

"...the only reason this exists is to create artificial drama and make who becomes champion a clusterfuck so the person that was best does not win. They're trying to make it like Daytona and Talladega which have almost entirely ceased being races because talent plays almost zero role in who wins there anymore. Three races for elimination periods? If a guy runs into you and crashes you, you're pretty much fucked. Regardless of how well you did the previous 31 races of the year. That line of reasoning for how to determine a champion has zero place in the sport of auto racing. What was the flaw with the last Chase that made them think they had to increase it to 16? Bearing in mind that there's only 30 or so drivers that seriously compete in every race, so you've made it so more than half of those people now qualify. Did anyone look at last year after Richmond and honestly think "David Ragan should have a chance to win the title?" I think the Chase is beyond stupid, but if you're going to have it, the way to make it mean more is to decrease the drivers in it and decrease the number of races. Say 6 drivers in the last 6 races. With the current poor quality of the back half of the grid, having 16 is ridiculous. The reason they settled on 16 is because sports like basketball and hockey I bet have 16 playoff teams, and the reason they're having elimination rounds is because every stick-and-ball sport in North America does. If that's the case, Brian France should be fired tomorrow for not understanding the sport of auto racing. But he's not going to be fired because the Board is made up of his family members, and so attendance and viewership will continue to decline with him running the sport."

[Edited on November 10, 2014 at 9:31 AM. Reason : .]

11/10/2014 9:13:01 AM

The Chase is a clusterfuck, they should go back to a normal points system. And if they want to manufacture some excitement, lets scale up how much a win is worth as it gets later in the year. 43 to win in first 20, 63 next 10 etc. But fuck this stick and ball bullshit.


I hope ESPN doesn't cut from the chase drivers on the last lap this week, to show the winner coming off 4. They completely missed the Newman dive bomb.

[Edited on November 10, 2014 at 2:29 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2014 2:26:44 PM

Brian France is the cancer that has infested this sport and will quickly kill it.

Saw this over at packpride:

Here is your Top 5 using just the points with no chase...which is I think the most fair way to do it:

1) #24-Jeff Gordon, 1217
2) #22-Joey Logano, 1188, -29
3) #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr., 1145, -72
4) #2-Brad Keselowski, 1138, -79
5) #4-Kevin Harvick, 1124, -93

As you can see, wins matter more in the old system than they do in the new one...lol...**** you nascar. Hope they get this BS changed before Chase Elliott gets into a full time sprint cup ride.


[Edited on November 10, 2014 at 2:32 PM. Reason : sfd]

11/10/2014 2:30:04 PM

Thats interesting, did they post a link to where they got those stats?

It was fun listening to them blow smoke up Elliot's ass about winning the nationwide championship. We all know thats Kyle Busch's trophy. #KingOfTheMinors

11/10/2014 4:14:48 PM

seeing as how Sprint Cup Regulars can't race for the championship, no its not. Chase did what all the other regulars in the Nationwide series couldn't this season....finish 50% of his races in the Top 5, won 3 races(2 of which Kyle, Logano, Harvick, Earnhardt Jr. etc) were in and the other one had Larson and Kahne in it. Not to mention this was his first season in Nationwide and hes only 18 years old. He deserves all of the smoke that they could blow.

Also, those stats are taken straight from Jayski's website.

[Edited on November 10, 2014 at 4:18 PM. Reason : sdf]

11/10/2014 4:18:08 PM

Before they made that stupid rule, the Cup regulars had won the last 5 nationwide championships. So yes that championship means about as much as a Chase Championship. Has the old system and chase ever matched on who should be the champion?

11/10/2014 4:28:27 PM

^Seeing as how Busch and all the Cup regulars have about a decades experience on Chase, i think it still means something. Also, the only way Kyle Busch is ever gonna win a real championship is to not run the sprint cup for points one season and run a full season of Nationwide/Xfinity.

As far as your second point, Jimmie would have won 3 championships at this point with the old system, so it would have matched up those three times. Jeff Gordon would be working on #7 this season. Carl Edwards would have 2 championships and Kevin Harvick would have 1.

The biggest argument against the Chase? Kyle Petty would be a NASCAR Sprint Cup Champion going by Chase rules. Think about that shit for a second.

Source: http://www.jayski.com/news/pages/story/_/page/NASCAR-Sprint-Cup-Chase-History

11/10/2014 5:04:32 PM

I'm actually a fan of the points change of drivers picking a championship. Last year didn't work out so good, but it was good this year in the promotion of Elliott into becoming a future star, which is the reason Nationwide exists.

11/10/2014 10:26:51 PM

speaking of Nationwide...Milka Duno is back for Homestead! lol

11/11/2014 7:47:42 AM

I'm doing the NASCAR racing experience this Saturday. I'm nervous as hell about getting started. I never really learned how to drive a stick because we didn't have one growing up. My friend was teaching me last night on his Honda and I never really got consistent with it.

11/11/2014 11:24:57 AM

Yea, that would be my biggest fear in doing those things. My dad tried to teach me one or two times on one of his mustangs and i just never seemed to get the hang of it. I was much younger then though, so I think if I could have someone sit down and teach me how to use one now days, i'd catch on pretty quick. I'm sure you'll do fine.

11/11/2014 11:38:13 AM

I did the NASCAR thing and barely could drive stick. Just get the car moving and cram it into fourth gear. You won't shift anymore after that, they don't let you downshift at the end just put in neutral from 4th and roll down pit.

As much as I don't like this chase format I think it would be better if the points worked as if only the cars actually in the chase counted in the points standings. So if the highest chase car finished third they would get first place points, if the next chase car finished fifth they would get 2nd place points, etc. Having someone randomly wreck you is way to devistating in point spread especially in a 3 race grouping. Essentially Passing non-chase cars shouldn't matter. Most of the non-chase cars are just using it to test or just getting in the way to help teammates in the chase so why count those cars.

11/11/2014 2:33:35 PM

I did the nascar thing at Charlotte without knowing how to drive a stick (other than 5 minutes in a vw bug). Like ^ said you only need to worry about getting to 4th gear. Just rev the snot out of it and ease off the clutch to get you moving in 1st. The rest is a piece of cake. Also remember to hold the steering wheel if you don't want to hang a left into the pit wall


As for the chase, this year has been exciting no doubt, but I've always felt that the chase puts too much emphasis on 10 tracks. Don't ask me how they do it but I'd like to see them alternate the chase races every year so the tracks vary. Folks keep comparing this knockout format to other sports, saying that it's not always the best team during the season that wins the championship. I think it's different in that it's not 16 teams facing each other for the last ten races, but 16 teams facing 27 teams that can affect the outcome. I agree with ^him. The points should be scaled differently for the chase drivers.

11/11/2014 9:14:01 PM

Would be like Denver playing Green Bay in the Super Bowl and while Thomas was running in for the winning touchdown JJ Watt runs out of nowhere and tackles him. I get you cant actually eliminate cars to the point where only 2 or 4 are on the track racing but at least take the non-chase cars out of the point mix.

But they did get the drama they wanted but the 4 cars left offer little excitement. Could care less who wins and if it is Newman really makes the setup look pretty bad.

11/11/2014 9:58:09 PM

The chase is there to appeal to stick and ball fans, the type of people that will casually tune in but never go to a race live. I give no fucks about anyone left in the chase, I just hope Newman wrecks his way to the Championship without winning a race. This would be Gordons 7th title if there was no chase....

11/12/2014 4:07:51 PM

Quote :

"The chase is there to appeal to stick and ball fans, the type of people that will casually tune in but never go to a race live."

Been watching racing since 1988. My experience with people is either you like racing or you don't. There's little in the way of in between, and in fact you're more likely to get the non-fan/very casual fan to go to a race than tune in, for the same reason that some people don't like football too much, but will go to a game to tailgate.

[Edited on November 12, 2014 at 8:40 PM. Reason : /]

11/12/2014 8:25:33 PM

for me the new chase is kinda like hooking up with that ugly girl you know. you don't want to like it but kinda do

i would tweak it some though. maybe 1-3-3-3 instead of 3-3-3-1 so you cut 4 out of 16 guys first race

11/13/2014 7:25:59 AM

^ so a blown engine for the best guy in the series or Kurt Busch puts him in the fence and he's screwed?

[Edited on November 13, 2014 at 7:33 AM. Reason : .]

11/13/2014 7:33:13 AM

^i said maybe! hah

the chase isn't supposed to be fair remember? supposed to be exciting

11/13/2014 7:37:03 AM

Quote :

"the chase isn't supposed to be fair remember? supposed to be exciting"

Does anyone find this more exciting than if it was just a normal race before? Are people outside of the NASCAR bubble (people inside the bubble would watch anyway) really wowed by Logano, Newman, Harvick, and Hamlin going for it at Homestead? Brawls on pit road have gotten more people to watch than the intricacies of the Chase, because that's what the media has focused on after races instead of the results.

Your statement is why whoever becomes champion this weekend is not really "the champion". How could a person watch the races this year and think Hamlin or Newman deserve to win the championship? Champion is supposed to be you went in, you survived the crucible, and you are the best. If you want a sport where the champion is often not the best, go watch boxing.

[Edited on November 13, 2014 at 8:00 AM. Reason : /]

11/13/2014 7:41:34 AM

^or NFL, MLB, NHL or any other sport that has a playoff

11/13/2014 12:20:51 PM

I think most who watch sports understand that the best team for the year doesn't always win the championship, it is about getting in and getting hot at the right time although at times it is the best team too. It just seems like this system is way to random and it was very easy for the better drivers to get eliminated with so much put on winning a single race of the 3. Perhaps only have 12 cars make the chase and make it so that winning doesn't guarantee a spot in the next round but that you get a nice bonus for winning(maybe 5 points or something). Then make the first round 4 races and eliminate it down to 8, second round 4 races and go down to 2, and then the last final 4 have a 2 race shootout.

But this system can't really be compared to any other sports because the people not in the playoffs aren't eliminated. That is what doesn't work. When the Spurs and Heat are playing a playoff game the 76ers aren't also running a practice on the same court bumping into them. That is what is going on with this.

11/14/2014 10:16:46 AM

Award 1 point for a win. No points for any other finishing position. Tie-breaker cage match. That's what these dumbass fans want now.

11/14/2014 10:42:08 AM

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/11874635/legislator-jackie-speier-asks-nascar-suspend-kurt-busch-amid-domestic-assault-allegations

I bet that woman is a lifelong single lady. Sure, NASCAR should suspend him just because some woman comes out and accuses him of hitting her with absolutely no evidence or pending criminal charges? And you've been representing this country where "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" is part of our fabric? good grief.

11/14/2014 12:36:23 PM

^AFAIK nascar just doesnt do that. if the owner/sponsor want him out there that's good enough for them.

kvapil never got suspended even after the guilty verdict.

Quote :

"CONCORD, N.C. — Travis Kvapil gave a public apology on Thursday, two days after being arrested following a domestic dispute with his wife, Jennifer. Kvapil will still be allowed to race in Saturday night's Bank of America 500. He spoke to reporters after qualifying 41st at Charlotte Motor Speedway, saying he regretted the incident and asking for privacy. "Obviously, I'm embarrassed about the situation," he said. "I don't like the negative effects it's brought on. So I apologize to NASCAR, my team, supporters of my team, my fans anyone else who was impacted by what happened Tuesday night.""

11/14/2014 4:46:35 PM

Quote :

"I bet that woman is a lifelong single lady."

:roll: :roll: :roll:

11/14/2014 7:52:54 PM

post a few more eye rolls please, it reallllly rustles my jimmies!

11/14/2014 9:33:34 PM

Quote :

"speaking of Nationwide...Milka Duno is back for Homestead! lol"

first practice she was 4 seconds off the leader! 167mph to her 149mph

she got in the race on owners points. this will end badly

11/15/2014 3:11:15 PM

gotta last longer than her last start........right?

11/15/2014 3:18:45 PM

^not necessarily. she made it to lap 2 last time

11/15/2014 3:44:56 PM

Turn 1 of Lap 2...lets be specific since it may matter...lol

11/15/2014 3:45:47 PM

Debris Cautions = EXCITEMENT

11/16/2014 6:22:56 PM

LOL Logano's crew

Debris caution with 5 to go == GREAT RACE yawn

In all fairness this track has always sucked balls. If they are going to stick with this format I hope they do the last race like the super bowl, move it around, have cities bid on it etc.

[Edited on November 16, 2014 at 6:26 PM. Reason : .]

11/16/2014 6:24:38 PM

OMFG, I called it.

11/16/2014 6:37:00 PM

At least you have 3 of the contenders running 1-2-3.

11/16/2014 6:39:17 PM

Still lame, I'm glad NFL fans think this is great.

11/16/2014 6:42:32 PM

Can't believe Newman didn't win given his resume this season.

11/16/2014 6:46:16 PM

Just think, Newman is champion if he just does what got him there.

11/16/2014 6:52:53 PM

That race was AWESOME. Glad guy who led over 2100 laps won to help silence the haters

11/16/2014 7:28:09 PM

Quote :

" Debris caution with 5 to go == GREAT RACE yawn"

Was driving through a snowstorm yesterday and was listening to the race on the radio. Harvick goes up front and gets a big lead thanks to taking the 4 tires, and then the radio announcers calmly say yellow is on the speedway. And it took them 20-30 seconds before they said it was for debris. I said out loud "OH BULLSHIT!" Did they ever show the debris on TV? MRN never even said what it was or where it was located.

11/17/2014 11:07:17 AM

Yea it was a pretty big piece of metal

11/17/2014 12:12:23 PM

Just got back from our trip. Did the NASCAR Racing experience on Saturday and everything went great. Was really nervous about driving a stick. I did stall out once while waiting to take off because my foot slipped off the clutch

Had a speed of 152.26. I think I would have had a higher speed but I had to slow down because of someone in front of me. I got to drive the 24 car too!

11/17/2014 12:45:01 PM

^which track and is the 152mph an average or top speed?

11/18/2014 5:50:31 AM

Yes, ESPN made it a point to show every piece of debris. All of them were legit, SURPRISINGLY.

^^I'm going to have to go do that. Was it the Petty experience, or Rusty Wallace? And what track?

11/18/2014 7:14:22 AM

It was just the NASACR Racing Experience and this was at Charlotte Motor Speedway: http://www.nascarracingexperience.com/index.html

If you are interested, there is a promo code "TOP50" to get 50% off. I just bought one for my dad last week, 5 minutes for $200.

Be warned though, some time slots require you to pay an extra $50 when you reserve a spot such as Saturday afternoon. We ended up paying it so we wouldn't have to pay for an extra night in a hotel.

^^It was top speed. From their website:
Q: How will I know what my top speed was?
A: Top speeds are approximate top speeds. We take the average lap speeds and add to that speed to get an approximate top speed on straight-aways. The higher programs we offer, the speeds will be closer to the actual top speed. Because it is an estimated top speed based off the average lap speed, the 5min and (1 & 2) 8min program will be skewed to the high side and the (3 & 4) 8min programs will be closer to accurate top speeds which will be reached at the end of the straight-away. Top speed will be printed for all drivers on your graduate certificate. Top speeds will vary depending on race track, track conditions, weather, and individual driving ability.



[Edited on November 18, 2014 at 9:46 AM. Reason : .]

11/18/2014 9:43:40 AM

200 bones for ~7 laps? Cot damn

11/18/2014 9:46:53 AM

How close are these cars to the real thing in your opinion? Are the engines restricted or just some junk yard 350 with a cam? 152 at Charlotte means you could hold it wide open?

11/18/2014 10:35:32 AM

I'm not sure what exact car model they were but they were the real cars. Not sure if they were ever used.

You pretty much leave it wide open but there is a chip that limits you to 5000 rpms.



Let me know if that doesn't show up.

11/18/2014 11:33:08 AM