seriously i would take engin over any player on the 08/09 team

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 12:45 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2009 12:45:09 PM

Quote :

"Plus, revisionist history says Engin Atsur was like the best player ever, so how does Lowe not have the advantage?"

Nobody's ever said that, but compared to the play we've gotten from the other pg's Sid has had, he was. But he was injured half the season. When he wasn't injured, the team played much better. Remember?

3/18/2009 12:47:13 PM

I wonder where Engin learned how to play so well?



/troll

3/18/2009 1:14:41 PM

Turkey

3/18/2009 1:16:22 PM

Quote :

"How bout the fact that the ACC is deeper and better now than when Herb took over the program"

1996 Coach K, Dean Smith, Rick Barnes, Tim Duncan's Wake Forest, Gary Williams, Bobby Cremmins at Georgia Tech > 2009 Coach K, Roy, 2009 Gary Williams

Did you seriously try to say this?

3/18/2009 1:24:37 PM

Quote :

"did you miss the part about inheriting one starter?"

Did you read my entire post?? Because it doesn't look like it.

BTW...I'm actually giving Sidney some slack because I said he took over a pretty bad team...so he definitely deserves some time to right the ship. I'm just saying Herb was easily in a worse overall situation. Because not only did he take over a bad team, but he took over a program in disarray. He had A LOT more work to do than Sidney. Sidney could at least hit the ground running with recruiting (and people who say he didn't have a lot of experience recruiting, look at the assistants he has working for him...which is HUGE) and somewhat decent talent to work with.

3/18/2009 1:37:23 PM

That 'bad' team gave him his best record.

Forgive me if I find that hilarious.

3/18/2009 2:12:24 PM

i find it coincidental

3/18/2009 2:18:25 PM

that he had a point guard on that team

3/18/2009 2:19:51 PM

iswydt

3/18/2009 2:20:44 PM

Quote :

"That 'bad' team gave him his best record."

That team was painful to watch when Atsur was out, Gavin Grant or Courtney Fells running the point is something I still have nightmares about

3/18/2009 2:21:44 PM

and he was 5-11 in the acc and 15-14 going into the acc tournament. the performance minus the run in the acc tournament was about the same as this season.

say for instance one call went against us in the OT game against duke in the first round. we wouldn't have made the nit and it would have been basically the same story as this season.

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 2:42 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2009 2:41:29 PM

The program was in much worse shape when Herb took over compared to Lowe. Anyone who argues otherwise is a complete and utter fool. Period. No questions asked.

That has no bearing on whether or not Lowe should be given more time or he is the man to succeed here so I have no idea why it is even being talked about.

3/18/2009 3:45:55 PM

Quote :

"1996 Coach K, Dean Smith, Rick Barnes, Tim Duncan's Wake Forest, Gary Williams, Bobby Cremmins at Georgia Tech > 2009 Coach K, Roy, 2009 Gary Williams Did you seriously try to say this?"

fuckin a right i did and i stand by it

THERE ARE 3 MORE TEAMS IN THE CONFERENCE NOWADAYS

CLEMSON DOESNT COMPLETELY SUCK NOWADAYS

DEAN'S UNC TEAMS IN 1996 ARENT THAT MUCH DIFFERENT FROM ROY'S CURRENT TEAMS

and what was so special about gary williams in 1996?

3/18/2009 3:51:40 PM

Quote :

"and what was so special about gary williams in 1996?"

He had just finished first the previous season? He was about to spend the next eight seasons finishing no lower than fourth?

3/18/2009 3:53:16 PM

he probably finished first the previous season since the ACC wasnt as good or deep as it is now

3/18/2009 3:55:27 PM

and anyway, herb's trajectory in his first few years wasn't all that different from lowe's

3/18/2009 3:55:58 PM

The mid- to late-90s ACC was a better conference top-to-bottom than the mid- to late-2000s ACC.

You really think the Big East teams made us a better basketball conference? Just having more teams does not make the conference better. In this case, it watered down the product.

3/18/2009 3:58:20 PM

i think by all accounts, va tech, bc and miami have overperformed basketball expectations and underperformed in football expectations (at least miami has)

the conference is deeper, you cant go straight from high school to the pros, etc

3/18/2009 4:00:09 PM

Quote :

"CLEMSON DOESNT COMPLETELY SUCK NOWADAYS"

they didn't suck under Rick Barnes either, that's why he got the Texas job

Quote :

"and what was so special about gary williams in 1996?"

Gary Williams was a much better coach before 2003 than he is now...his teams now are lucky to make the tourney, that didn't used to be the case

3/18/2009 4:00:13 PM

i know gary williams and maryland have fallen off since winning the title with baxter and dixon, but as of 1996 they hadnt won anything

and yeah barnes was good, but clemson went 8-8 that year...nothing stellar, although it was good for clemson

i'd take purnell's 09 team over barnes' 96 team...at last i wouldve until maybe a month ago

3/18/2009 4:01:50 PM

Quote :

"i'd take purnell's 09 team over barnes' 96 team...at last i wouldve until maybe a month ago"

lulz, fair enough

3/18/2009 4:03:49 PM

Quote :

"but as of 1996 they hadnt won anything"

Aren't you like 30? This is bullshit. Maryland was right there with UNC and Duke.

Did you completely forget the Joe Smith/Keith Booth/Exree Hipp/Dickie Simpkins years?

3/18/2009 4:14:16 PM

their last acc title before 2004 was in the 80s, and williams got them their first national title in 02 (i think it was 02)

so what had they won as of 1996?

a bunch of regular season games? congratulations

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 4:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2009 4:16:39 PM

Quote :

"1994–1995 Maryland 26-8 12-4 T-1st NCAA Sweet 16"

ACC regular season champs and sweet sixteen the very year we are talking about.

3/18/2009 4:18:47 PM

you said 1996

doesnt matter though, regular season title? wow, we won the state title in football this year, whoopty do

3/18/2009 4:19:37 PM

Quote :

"ACC regular season champs and sweet sixteen the very year we are talking about."

sweet sixteens are irrelevant, even Sendek has one of those /sarcasm

3/18/2009 4:20:15 PM

UNC and Duke get to the sweet 16 all the time

thats not the same as "Maryland was right there with UNC and Duke"

3/18/2009 4:21:05 PM

Damn Tree you would argue with a fucking sign.

The 1990s ACC > 2009 ACC. I don't see how it could be otherwise.

Adding Virginia Tech, Miami, and BC made the conference worse as a whole.

3/18/2009 4:23:26 PM

you'd argue with a sign that lowe should be immediately fired, so who cares what you think

and now your argument is that a decade of college basketball is better than one year? i dont disagree with that, i thought we were talking about the year herb took over...

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 4:25 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2009 4:24:58 PM

Quote :

"you'd argue with a sign that lowe should be immediately fired, so who cares what you think"

You never read any of my posts and then you post bullshit like this.

3/18/2009 4:28:35 PM

yeah you're lowe's biggest supporter

you've never once said he should be fired...

3/18/2009 4:30:46 PM

Quote :

"Adding Virginia Tech, Miami, and BC made the conference worse as a whole."

Miami certainly has, but BC and Va Tech has been decent to good most years since they joined the conference. My problem with expansion is that it killed the double round robin schedule, not so much that it diluted the conference. Unbalanced conference schedules are bullshit.

3/18/2009 4:32:54 PM

You're right I'm not his biggest supporter. Sorry for being upset we are the only ACC team to not make the NCAA tournament in his three years.

I am far from the people who want him gone immediately. He gets next year from me ya know since we gotta give him his players. Still 5-11 and 6-10 and you're damn right he should be gone.

3/18/2009 4:33:52 PM

well i pretty much agree with that outlook...i just dont recall you always having that sentiment, like the times you said he should be fired and then admitted it was your emotions and you didnt mean it

but anyways

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

3/18/2009 4:36:46 PM

Quote :

"like the times you said he should be fired and then admitted it was your emotions and you didnt mean it"

One time after a loss clearly means all the time.

Honestly we are going to be around 16-15 (5-11) next year so we are going to be at the same point as now.

Will he get another year after that? I don't know. If we lose Leslie and he isn't bringing in anymore big talent, then what reasons will there be to keep him?

3/18/2009 4:38:49 PM

those are questions that can't be answered right now until we see what he and the team do next season

3/18/2009 4:40:53 PM

Firing or losing a coach more often than not just sets a program back, plain and simple. That's where we are people, plain and simple. If we fired Lowe today and got [coach's name] tomorrow I doubt much would be different in terms of on the court performance. We'd just lose our recruits and end up with transfers from Iowa State, Tennessee, and High Point. We'd suck for the next couple of years and then everyone would be crying about firing that person as well. The crowd/fanbase is fickle and impatient. A revolving door of coaches will leave any program in perpetual failure.

Note: I do not think Lowe is the savior or anything. Just trying to be objective.

3/18/2009 4:55:03 PM

Quote :

"Dickie Simpkins"

While Dickie Simpkins is the greatest color commentator in college basketball, he went to Providence and not Maryland...

3/18/2009 5:29:26 PM

We're already rock bottom and the only thing that could be remotely worse then this is finishing a whopping two slots lower in the ACC standings.

Like really, there's no positive gain to keeping Lower for another year. Not that it matters, we'll keep him for two more at the least.

3/18/2009 6:12:53 PM

Quote :

"Like really, there's no positive gain to keeping Lower for another year."

Really? Did your crystal ball tell you that?

No matter what we may or may not gain by keeping Lowe for another year or two, we stand to lose a lot more if we let him go now.

That's been said a thousand times already. Do you have anything to say that hasn't, or are you just going to keep trolling?

3/18/2009 6:14:45 PM

Herb will cut down the nets this year. You heard it here first. This is the only possible way that this season could get worse for us.

3/18/2009 6:48:54 PM

Quote :

"No matter what we may or may not gain by keeping Lowe for another year or two, we stand to lose a lot more if we let him go now."

BULLSHIT! You cannot say that all authoritative like that and be expected to be taken seriously. The flip side of that coin is that we could possibly be losing a couple of years of valuable rebuilding time with a new coach

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 7:03 PM. Reason : []

3/18/2009 7:01:27 PM

wow

3/18/2009 7:16:08 PM

Quote :

"Like really, there's no positive gain to keeping Lower for another year."

untrue, we haven't replaced fowler yet

3/18/2009 7:18:25 PM

i dont know if its been said yet, but if lowe loses CJ Leslie he needs to be fired immediately. wasnt lowe supposed to be a good recruiter??

3/18/2009 8:52:08 PM

Quote :

"You cannot say that all authoritative like that and be expected to be taken seriously."

What exactly it authoritative about using the phrase "we stand to lose"

You realize that's speculation, right?

Quote :

"i dont know if its been said yet, but if lowe loses CJ Leslie he needs to be fired immediately. wasnt lowe supposed to be a good recruiter??"

Why, no, laxman490! Nothing like that has been said in 113 pages! Excellent post! Very insightful! Please tell us more!

[Edited on March 18, 2009 at 8:55 PM. Reason : ]

3/18/2009 8:54:31 PM

this thread just gets dumber and dumber

3/18/2009 9:01:04 PM

Quote :

"NC State wing Courtney Fells, forward Brandon Costner and center Ben McCauley, became only the second recruiting class to have three 1,000-point scorers this season. McCauley and Costner also became only the eighth and ninth players in school history to record 1,000 points, 500 rebounds and 150 assists in their careers. "

3/18/2009 9:35:44 PM

All three are also in the top 5 for career minutes played (thanks mostly to 06-07 and the fact that minutes weren't recorded prior to 1980)

And C.C. Harrison played with the Harlem Globetrotters

Interesting facts found in the media guide

3/18/2009 9:38:13 PM