11/4/2010 10:10:00 AM

http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2010/10/28/about-that-transparency/

Quote :

"HATE that this came out on the late afternoon of State’s huge game with Florida State…but, we have more than five FSU-related entries on the front page of the blog and you can surf and read to your heart’s content. We are going to send the traffic on this to the Daily Tar Heel because of the legitimately fantastic work they’ve done covering their own school. They deserve to know that outsiders are impressed with them. (Link) Media organizations file suit against UNC officials Daily Tar Heel among plaintiffs Four top UNC officials have been named as defendants in a lawsuit filed Thursday by a coalition of eight news organizations seeking access to public records. At issue are records relating to the University’s ongoing investigation of improper relationships with athletic agents and academic misconduct surrounding the football team. When refusing the records requests made under the N.C. public records law, the University has cited the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, a federal student privacy law known as FERPA. The plaintiffs, led by The Daily Tar Heel and The (Raleigh) News & Observer, believe UNC is misusing the privacy law in order to withhold records that could prove embarrassing. [snip of the meat so that you can click to article] Named as defendants in the suit are Davis, Baddour, Director of Public Safety Jeff McCracken and Chancellor Holden Thorp. The four men are considered the “custodians” of the records in question under the state law. “By using an overly broad interpretation of the law to withhold records, University officials are inciting speculation that there is something to hide and that they value protecting that information more than they value the public’s trust,” DTH Editor-in-Chief Sarah Frier said. The plaintiffs have filed numerous records requests for these and other records beginning in early August. The University has consistently cited FERPA when denying requests. UNC has released redacted copies of some of the records. Phone records for Baddour, Blake and Davis were released in September, and the University provided records identifying three people who gave illegal benefits to players on Friday. In both cases, the records were heavily redacted to avoid identifying the student-athletes involved. FERPA law was intended to prevent schools from sharing sensitive student information, such as grades, with others. The 1974 law also gives students a right to inspect their educational records. MEDIA MATTERS SFN will have more on this issue – and in a more coherent format – in the coming day(s). But, please know that we’ve been waiting for the day that we could run this story! For months we’ve heard stories of the uncooperative nature coming from UNC’s administration and their refusal to comply with the media’s Freedom of Information Act Requests. It seems the ‘good’ folks at Carolina who have been quick to run into press conferences and radio interviews to tell everyone of their greatness and openness (while also not remotely answering any questions) would much rather talk about transparency and cooperation than actually deliver it. I’m just surprised we didn’t see more editorials and public outcry about the topic before the lawsuits were filed. Ahhh…’to seem, rather than to be.’ It really is the ‘Carolina Way’. You can click here for the N&O’s article. The two McClatchy newspapers joined forces with the DTH Media Corp., which publishes the UNC-CH student newspaper the Daily Tar Heel; News 14 Carolina, a cable TV station operated by Time Warner Entertainment-Advance/Newhouse Partnership; WTVD Television; Capitol Broadcasting; the Associated Press; and, Media General Operations. The aforementioned media outlets party to the lawsuit are clearly positioned to take the high ground and now can prove to the public that they were/are interested, engaged and working towards covering the story and digging for the truth. Anyone who hasn’t at least filed a FOIA request obviously has no interest in digging for the truth. (Imagine my shock that we didn’t see Fox Sports’ Andrew Jones’ name on the list.) THE BUS RUNNETH OVER Didn’t you find it fascinatingly odd that the University was able to so quickly supply damning portions of John Blake’s phone records [coincidentally] RIGHT BEFORE the season started and his sudden departure? How would you choose to describe the fact that the only ‘negative’ information to this point that hasn’t violated any of UNC’s fabricated legal positions is information that so neatly wraps up a single rogue coach who took advantage of his role and has been set up to be the primary fall guy? 5:55 Update: Right on cue with my ^previous comments about John Blake, the News & Observer further substantiates UNC’s strategy to isolate and publicly paint Blake as ‘the guy’ in all of this. The newspapers were able to use a narrow, targeted search of phone records to prove frequent contact between Blake and agent Gary Wichard, and that Blake was speaking with family members of highly regarded Nebraska defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh and then immediately contacting Wichard. But the school redacted almost all of the numbers on Blake’s phone records, citing student privacy, privacy of numbers of other employees’ personal phones, and privacy of the phone numbers of prospective students. Finally! THE TRUTH!!! So, UNC redacted…EVERYTHING! You didn’t even know this part yet, did you? This is a big part of the story — Carolina hasn’t even released the phone records that you previously thought they had released. The ONLY phone calls released were specifically designed to set up John Blake and throw him under the bus. Must I remind you? It gets better. Erin E. Summers of WRAL’s website tweeted that: #UNC said more than 80 public records requests related to the football investigation have been filed and Thorp authorized hiring additional staff to help meet demand for reviewing & responding to football-related public records requests How do you like your tax dollars at work? So, exactly what have these new hires been doing? As evidenced by the lawsuit, UNC hasn’t complied with any of the FOIA requests. But, they’ve hired extra people…to help comply with the FOIA requests? God I hope that all of these expenses are being charged to UNC’s athletics department that doesn’t operate with tax dollars (if you ignore the millions of dollars of subsidies that the legislature slides to the Dean E. Smith Center). UNC, while proclaiming its desire to be transparent and work with everyone to clean up this mess, has the time, human resources and money to meticulously go through thousands of phone calls and redact all of the phone numbers except a very targeted set of calls that serve the obvious and specific purpose of basically crafting a single story related to Blake and his involvement with Wichard and Suh. Obviously, we don’t yet know what set of stories are told by the phone records that UNC is hiding in their blatant objection to comply with the law? ADVICE One quick note for our friends in the media — have you also requested records for other Assistant Coaches at UNC? For example, what about this guy? Notice any previous employment and past relationships that may be of particular interest? You know…there were rumors last week that the NCAA was back in town wanting to talk to some other assistant coaches about some ‘irregularities’ they found. I wonder which coaches? I wonder if phone records could help people do some investigating? I wonder what students’ rights the release of those phone records would violate? Lastly, there are A LOT of folks around the ACC territories that would like to have a little more insight into the frequency and nature of Blake (and other Carolina coaches’) communications with former Hargrave Head Coach, Robert Prunty. Think that could be on some of those records?"

11/4/2010 11:25:08 AM

Quote :

"yeah, there's definitely a conflict of interest there. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy like some of our tinfoil hat fans, but jbrick's point is spot on... it's just a matter of not biting the hand that pays you."

I didn't realize IC was a sponsor, definitely seems like a conflict of interest.

Check out his site: http://www.thebigtailgate.com/

Featuring this ad:

11/4/2010 11:25:15 AM

I know that coaches do this a lot, but Butch always seems to go out of his way to say "Taylor" when he talks to him; like: "You know Taylor..." TZ is always at his press-conferences as well.

/tinfoilhat

someone said: "maybe PP/DBR declined". Unless IC is giving them lots of money to have their name and Greg Barnes do interviews (which i guess they could, they're all just wiping their ass with with money over there), i find it hard to believe that PP or DBR (or the main Duke site) wouldn't at least be offered equal time. I think imma call TZ tomorrow and ask him this.

11/4/2010 12:18:54 PM

Quote :

"don't let the liberal media tell you how to think and feel"

11/4/2010 12:32:45 PM

^ We learned later that he divorced his wife for being, quote, "a nigger lover."

that skit cracks me up


And now back to the UNC scandal

11/4/2010 12:41:46 PM

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/04/1811598/uncs-thorp-butch-davis-didnt-know.html

That settles that. A dozen rogue players, now can we move on?

11/4/2010 1:08:02 PM

Quote :

"BUTCH DIDN'T KNOW"

OH LAWD HALLELUJAH, I KNEW HE WAS INNOCENT!

11/4/2010 1:31:04 PM

Quote :

"HALLELUJAH"

11/4/2010 2:01:11 PM

Quote :

"Chapel Hill, N.C. — The University of North Carolina has found no evidence that head football coach Butch Davis knew of player relationships with agents or with any alleged academic violations, Chancellor Holden Thorp said Thursday. Speaking to the UNC Board of Governors' Committee on University Governance, Thorp said the university is "making good progress" in its investigation of alleged infractions by members of the football team and should finish soon. "We're all concerned about how it happened, why it happened and why we didn't catch it sooner," he said. UNC suspended more than a dozen football players at the beginning of the season while the NCAA and university officials investigated allegations of dealings with agents and academic violations. Thorp said eligibility issues for all but two of the players have been resolved. Defensive end Robert Quinn, defensive tackle Marvin Austin and wide receiver Greg Little were kicked off the team after the NCAA determined they had accepted thousands of dollars in trips and gifts from agents. Four other players were being held out for the entire season for "various reasons," Thorp said. NCAA investigators visited the UNC campus six times since the summer, he said. Agents with the North Carolina Secretary of State's Office, which is looking into possible illegal activity by agents, visited twice. UNC officials conducted more than 60 interviews in the probe. The NCAA has told UNC officials that the university has been "forthcoming" and "helpful" in the investigation, Thorp said, adding that he feels UNC has cooperated fully with the NCAA. The probe "will conclude relatively soon," he said. UNC also has tried to be forthcoming with requests for documents related to the probe, according to Thorp. Several media outlets, including WRAL parent Capitol Broadcasting Co., sued the university last week to gain access to more records. Thorp said UNC has provided 5,000 pages of documents and has spent more than 600 hours trying to comply with requests for information. The university has even hired temporary workers to help process the requests he said. Still, he said, UNC must protect the privacy of students and employees in releasing information to the public."

I wish people would visit me and ask about MY investigation into my criminal activities. would make life easy.

[Edited on November 4, 2010 at 3:01 PM. Reason : s]

11/4/2010 3:00:31 PM

Quote :

"RT @ArmstrongWTVD Interesting from Thorp on Butch. Asked directly, Thorp: 'I didn't say he didn't know, I said there's no evidence he knew.'"

11/4/2010 3:09:31 PM

^^Out of curiosity, what word would you have used other than visit? I mean, someone should mention they were there to investigate but they've been doing that even when they weren't on campus




^WOW, way to sound like a shady shady fuck with that statement

[Edited on November 4, 2010 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ^^s]

11/4/2010 3:10:42 PM

^^Christ, leave it to them to twist words and phrases to their breaking point.

11/4/2010 3:13:58 PM

Typical.
I just sent this into AG:
Butch didn't know yet:
Everyone on twitter knew (thanks MA)
Other players knew (refusal to go to a party because "agents were going to be there"
message boards knew (again thanks MA)
and finally Spurrier knew
Yeah sounds real plausible to me.

11/4/2010 4:29:13 PM

Careful not to step in the bullshit.

11/4/2010 4:44:22 PM

So is it just coincidence that a story like this doesn't have comments enabled?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/04/1811767/uncs-thorp-butch-davis-is-our.html

11/4/2010 5:40:34 PM

how about these gem of posts from IC:

Quote :

"I had a student tell me to my face that she wrote numerous papers for a current State starter. Seems like TOB should know that. "

Quote :

"Well if you have proof of this then maybe you should act on it. Investigators are still in NC right?"

Quote :

"I've actually thought about it. The trick would be getting her to go on record. I'm not sure she would do so because I'm not sure how it would affect her academic situation. I do think a journalism student should pursue it. "

Quote :

"Someone would have to tape her or make it beneficial to tell the truth. If it happened, State would probably be vacating their wins this year. He's started every game. And every time he makes a play I can't help thinking of what she said. "

their fans are a fucking joke

11/4/2010 7:57:47 PM

Butch didn't know. They didn't find the evidence, so that must mean he was in the dark.

The football team is doing more than fine without a dozen players and they've decided that they want to keep Butch to see what he can do with a full roster. I guess they've got between now and the end of the season to convince everyone that keeping Butch on is the honorable thing to do.

11/4/2010 8:05:04 PM

We have found no evidence that Butch Davis knew that he lost to NC State the last 3 years in football.

I mean, he has dozens of coaches, players, etc

He can't be expected to keep tabs on them all

11/4/2010 8:41:57 PM

I'm guessing Butch's contract has very strong language around what he can be fired for. So, if they don't have good enough evidence, they're out a shit ton of money to fire him.

I feel like Thorp would be rid of Butch in a heart beat if he could. But with the boosters split on whether to fire Butch or keep him, it would be a financial disaster to try and fire him without a guarantee that they can void his contract/fire with cause/whatever you want to call it.

11/4/2010 9:15:03 PM

I still don't know how the tutor gets to keep her degree if UNC "knows" she helped commit academic improprieties.

11/4/2010 9:21:30 PM

Quote :

"that skit cracks me up"

it's funny that you say "skit" because dave has always make fun at the fact that people outside of the industry call it a "skit" instead of a "sketch"

it's not summer camp.

11/4/2010 9:28:27 PM

so basically Thorp admitted to LOIC today is what I'm getting here

11/4/2010 9:40:14 PM

Quote :

"HAS ALWAYS MAKE"

i'm an idiot

11/4/2010 10:01:08 PM

It is not a matter of did or did not know (and he knew). It is a matter of SHOULD have known.
Whatever, as far as I am concerned he can stay for as long as he wants.

11/5/2010 8:23:20 AM

Quote :

"so basically Thorp admitted to LOIC today is what I'm getting here"

That was my immediate thought as well (and presumably the immediate thought of pretty much anyone outside of CH when they read that statement). That they're making a big deal about the fact that Butch was somehow completely clueless about what was going on around him but that's pretty much the definition of a lack of institutional control. Half the football fans in the state knew that something was up with Austin before Butch knew (since Butch only started caring about what his players put on Twitter after they started gay bashing). And the academic cheating prong was the result of someone employed by Butch personally.

Either A: UNC Officials are completely lying about how much Butch knew or B: Butch is completely clueless and has no business running a BCS program.

[Edited on November 5, 2010 at 1:06 PM. Reason : ./]

11/5/2010 1:05:16 PM

Quote :

"Either A: UNC Officials are completely lying about how much Butch knew or B: Butch is completely clueless and has no business running a BCS program."

All of the above? It's amusing to me that so many unc fans take the statement "there is no evidence..." as "he's completely innocent."

11/5/2010 1:37:54 PM

What kills me the most is the excuse they didn't know that the agent issues would be this bad when they have top level basketball players year in and year out, Butch was at fucking Miami to "clean it up", and it's not like this was the first time ever they've had top NFL prospects---Pepper's anyone? They had several go early that year.

And the whole bloody case screams LOIC.

[Edited on November 5, 2010 at 1:39 PM. Reason : .]

11/5/2010 1:38:58 PM

^ and Butch was an NFL head coach

11/5/2010 1:46:35 PM

totally forgot about that although on that end agent contact isn't illegal, but still

11/5/2010 1:50:11 PM

Quote :

"Asked directly, Thorp: 'I didn't say he didn't know, I said there's no evidence he knew.'""

I can't wait for Thorp to start trying the Chewbacca defense.

Quote :

"Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee NFL draft pick, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company public university, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests"

11/5/2010 1:59:09 PM

^ lol

11/5/2010 2:08:15 PM

heather's best work to date

http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/18033/video-friday-four-downs-8

somewhere around the 1:30mark she calls out UNC and BD, in the only way her geeky little voice can do it.

11/5/2010 5:02:33 PM

Anyone hear Coach Cutcliffe on the radio tonight saying it's inexcusable for a coach to not know what is going on with his team?

11/5/2010 9:48:13 PM

Probably mentioned somewhere on this board, but Johnny White's career is done at UNC. He broke his clavicle in the second half against FSU.

I actually feel bad for the guy ... Butch & Co. moved him around his entire career from RB to CB to WR. They finally put him back at RB out of necessity this season, and he blows up. Good luck to him.

11/7/2010 9:17:05 AM

sucks for him, he's one of a very few UNC players in my lifetime that I couldn't find a reason to hate.

11/7/2010 10:40:44 AM

They are sensitive over there on IC. I got banned for this:

Quote :

"Retiredcoach01: we like helping you guys sometimes. know you can't do it by yourself. oh, wait."

I responded with:

Quote :

"That's what she said (She, of course, being the tutor)."

11/7/2010 12:05:00 PM

11/7/2010 5:36:06 PM

^ lol

11/7/2010 8:19:03 PM

great quotes from PP:

Quote :

" I think they're all guilty, most of those kids saw the trips, bling, cars etc... they were willing accomplices to this cheating and they should suffer too."

Quote :

"Tell me how some college kid is walking around campus (and his TEAMMATES and COACHES) sporting not one, but TWO black diamond watches and they not notice, much less wonder where they came from. It like the girlfriend who knows her boyfriend has been knocking over banks but doesn't say anything to the cops. The whole team is guilty because they knew what the deal was with Austin, etc. "

Quote :

"Every time i watch them I wonder how many of those players would have actually gone to UNC without the cheating"

This is why college FB is shenanigans if unc skates. May as well be NFL minor leagues. Either we hold these fags accountable or just start writing checks. There is no gray area.

11/7/2010 9:04:14 PM

If UNC gets no penalty for this shit show, then the NCAA loses a lot of credibility in my mind. If Butch Davis doesn't get fired after this season, then UNC has lost all credibility.

11/8/2010 10:27:11 AM

UNC never had any credibility.

11/8/2010 10:57:25 AM

^ good point.

11/8/2010 10:59:32 AM

^^

11/8/2010 3:54:23 PM

no doubt in my mind Butch will be their head coach next season, and i'll gladly make a reasonable and friendly wager on it.

11/9/2010 1:16:57 AM

lafta will gladly bet you $5

11/9/2010 1:35:03 AM

They can fire Butch once the NCAA let's them know that there is/were one major NCAA violation without paying him. Weather he knew about it is not relevant in his contract, and as we all know, he certainly knew every last detail of these guys flying all over the country, there's simply no way not to know, and if he didn't know, then it's LOIC at it's finest. UNC is grandstanding until the NCAA hands down the verdict. Do you all think UNC is going to come out with a press release: "We think we're really screwed, so we are going to stick our collective tail between our legs and pray for the best." Of course not, they are going to work the media with completely irrelevant statements like the above about not being contacted by the NCAA when they know full well it will be months before this thing wraps up.

Of course the NCAA hasn't sent them a letter, it's going to take 2-3 more months just to get to the bottom of John Blake's roll as an agent. This is unprecedented in NCAA athletics. Just because in today's world we forget about things that aren't hot and current, doesn't make it any less relevant. The John Blake news is the most embarassing scandal in the history of the ACC if the NCAA can prove it. They also have a student and his father confirm that said player admitted to an honor court violation. This usually constitutes a full semester of probation with no activites. Burney got one game for his honor court violation (other 6 games were NCAA related). The "Carolina Way" died that day without any dispute.

UNC's compliance department has been dealing with NBA lottery picks since the inception of the lottery. This means they are fully aware of agents and the consequences. Nothing could be further from the truth than for their complaince dept. to plead ignorance, that's like running in traffic and complaining about getting hit. If Matt Doherty had the allegations that Butch had (Which technically he should have with Forte's mom) he'd have been axed and they'd have brought in antoher hall of famer in no time. Butch is that program right now, if he goes, it will set the program back a minimum of 4 years, maybe 6. Losing Mack Brown set them back 5 and that was a regualr coaching switch.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 9:02 AM. Reason : .]

11/9/2010 8:56:08 AM

^ I might have agreed that UNC would fire Butch, but then UNC went 6-3. They'll probably end the season 8-4, probably even win the VT game and go 9-3.

Everything that I've seen out of them since this whole mess started has shown me that they care more about the wins / getting ineligible players back than cleaning up their image. If they were 3-6, no question; 6-3, now they're wondering what things will be like when Butch can get a full roster back.

Maybe they are waiting for something to come down from the NCAA so they can fire him without having to give him a huge pay out, but something tells me we aren't going to hear anything out of the NCAA for a long, long time. Probably after the next season has already started and long after they've cashed their check for their bowl game.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 12:32 PM. Reason : -]

11/9/2010 12:30:58 PM

^ nobody is going to do anything until the NCAA comes out with something, so far, in the way of violations, that hasn't happened, which is cutomary, they release findings at the end, just as they did with USC. The NCAA, however, has come out with the fact that Little and Quinn lied, multiple times. For those players to lie on multiple occasions shows me how much of a joke they thought the NCAA was, and piling on was the fact that Dez Bryant was in a similar situation with the same result, can you say morons? Williams came clean and got 4 games. Marvin also lied his tail off too, if he came clean, the football program would be shut down. So to have 3 players show zero character and lie their butts off is almost reason enough to me to seriously question Butch's employment.

Now we get to tutor/nanny gate. This is just embarassing, and is cause to fire him on the spot, regardless of weather you have to pay him. For Butch to hire a tutor AFTER the compliance dept. told her to take a hike for being "too friendly" with the players is deplorable to the faculty at UNC. If any faculty member had an iota of integrity, they'd be raising a huge stink about that.

Thing is that nobody will know or do anything until the NCAA says something. They stayed low at USC for months and USC thought they were in the clear, including Bush, and now I bet he wishes he had paid up that 300K now that he's worth 50+ mil. The real genius on UNC's behalf is keeping the faculty quiet. How in the world they are letting confessed cheaters out on the field while keeping the faculty mum is unreal, maybe some nice Christmas bonuses are being dished out, who knows. You've got Charles Brown who is apparently red shirting and not serving any kind of a football suspension when the honor court told him he's done for a year. But I have to think when all the info gets released, the faculty is going to be irate if not already.


You have to credit to UNC's faculty/admin credit for keeping any disputes private, which was disaster for us in the late 80's. They are all on the same page publicly over there and the no news is starting to get some people to htink that they will skate. I personally am waiting on the John Blake verdict. Just because we haev nto heard anything new on him doesn't just make it go away if you're Blake/Butch/UNC. It's the most damaging accusations I've ever heard at the NCAA level next to point shaving.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2010 1:30:43 PM

^^ MY god.... UNC MIGHT actually go 9-3 this season

11/9/2010 1:59:52 PM