My point was that a lot of people thought the three (fells, costner, mccauley) were talented players because of their stats in Lowe's first year. However what people are ignoring is they all were forced into playing a ton of minutes that year. When they aren't playing 40 mins a game they don't look as impressive. I didn't have that much expectations of those players exploding this year (I wished fells/Costner would but given the past years I didn't really expect it). I only defended Horner in the fact that he was a decent back up. Towards the end I was more comfortable with him being on the floor than I was with Costner. Horner didn't turn the ball over like it was his job. Of course idiots pick little bits of arguments to respond too.

3/20/2009 8:40:11 AM

First, I just wanted to say how ridiculous it is that a team with a coach we looked at wins a fucking game people act like we could be in the same position if we had hired that person...like it was all our fault we didn't land any of them (mainly I'm pissed that people are acting like we would be in michigans place had we hired JB...because we know everone here wanted him

Quote :

"All recruits for every coach don't pan out."

So how about every time there is a discussion about how we need to bring in new blood, or someone tells someone to calm down b/c we have a good class coming in next year, all you Lowe haters stop bringing up the 2005 recruiting class as being so great k? thx. This is a 2 way street. I don't disagree with the statement, but if you're going to talk about how some recruits don't work out, you can't say that Lowe should be doing so much better b/c of the ranking of the 2005 class. I think thats fair.

Quote :

"You can bet your bottom dollar Horner's no playing defense would ride the pine with Herb."

Actually, his defense in the second half of the year won us some games. First half of the season was terrible, but he got a lot better. Give credit where credit is due.

3/20/2009 9:23:37 AM

Quote :

"and that will get you suspended again and you will have to buy your 4th screen name"

what are all of his names?

3/20/2009 1:41:59 PM

117 pages of

all for one credible man

sidney

3/20/2009 3:15:36 PM

Quote :

"This is a 2 way street. I don't disagree with the statement, but if you're going to talk about how some recruits don't work out, you can't say that Lowe should be doing so much better b/c of the ranking of the 2005 class. I think thats fair."

Its been said that they are only the second class ever to have there 1,000 point scorers. One of them in three years. That's far from not panning out.

3/20/2009 3:43:12 PM

masturbating with stats again i see

3/20/2009 3:44:09 PM

They are all three double digit scorers, the top two rebounders, top two assist men on the team.

How could you say that they are the cause of our demise?

3/20/2009 3:46:05 PM

numbers don't always tell the whole story.

3/20/2009 3:47:44 PM

Sigh. They are three out of our four best players with Tracy.

So you are one of those "We will be better without Herb's junk players" guys?

3/20/2009 3:52:47 PM

next year worries me because i don't know who will score. looking at

javi/degand
mays/brown/wood
williams/thomas
Costner?/Horner/KSmith
Smith/Howell

i have no idea who would even get the ball besides tracy smith. they seem decent enough individually, but i don't know if anybody can really score if costner doesn't come back. hopefully brown can score a bunch, be the one that leads us bttt.

3/20/2009 4:01:28 PM

[Edited on March 20, 2009 at 4:41 PM. Reason : wtf]

3/20/2009 4:38:33 PM

Quote :

"Its been said that they are only the second class ever to have there 1,000 point scorers. One of them in three years. That's far from not panning out."

My point wasn't only directed at you.


But you have to look at the overall picture with those guys, they are high scorers and high rebounders because they get a ton of minutes. I promise you that they would not be at the top in points per minute or rebounds per minute in NC State history.

And that wasn't to say they totally suck or something, just to say recruit rankings aren't everything...so if you're going to bash this year's class and defend the 2005 class, you're being ignorant.


^^is that a serious post? You don't think we'll get good production out of CJ, Javi, (possibly costner), Horner if he actually improves a little? Mays has shown that he can score so hopefully he gets to play the 2 position next year (he's not a good 1). Brown is supposed to be a great scorer, Wood can light it up from outside, and both of them play good team basketball.

[Edited on March 20, 2009 at 4:41 PM. Reason : ]

3/20/2009 4:41:13 PM

Quote :

"Actually, his defense in the second half of the year won us some games"

whatever. horner would occasionally have good help side d and come from behind to make a block or something

but he cant man up to save his life

3/20/2009 6:05:15 PM

im working on reading like the last 18 pages of this thread cause its pretty damn funny, but im on page 107 right now, i think, and the "quack" quote 4 times in a row got a lol out of me

3/20/2009 7:45:26 PM

^i'm glad i could bring some humor to this dumb fest

Quote :

"So you are one of those "We will be better without Herb's junk players" guys?"

i'm not saying they're "junk players" at all, and just because they've been able to put up good numbers doesn't mean they're the second coming either. you tend to throw numbers around like that tells the whole story, and it doesn't. i love what those players have done for us but most everyone will agree, and i'm sure that they'll tell you themselves, that they've been inconsistent and have underperformed at times (FTR, i supported herb while he was here too, we're doing more harm than good by calling for people's heads too early). on the bright side, i love the work ethic from our new guys and i think that's something we can really build on.

3/20/2009 9:07:24 PM

After watching all of these NCAA tournament games, and comparing the product they put out on the court versus what I had to witness all season long with our team is really soul crushing.

3/21/2009 12:49:20 PM

Haha... what's crazy to me is I remember going to a State-UConn game in, maybe 1990, when Fire and Ice were around and thinking, "Wow, this is a big time college basketball program." They actually handed UConn its first loss ever in that building.

Since that day UConn has been to 12 Sweet 16's compared to our 1. Which is freaking nuts...

We are a long way from being able to compete, athletically, at the top level right now... A LONG way...

[Edited on March 23, 2009 at 1:52 PM. Reason : x]

3/23/2009 1:52:18 PM

Quote :

"Since that day UConn has been to 12 Sweet 16's compared to our 1."

and if it wasn't for that 1, it would have been 13

3/23/2009 2:19:19 PM

What do you guys think of a possibility of a coach like Sean Miller of Xavier to coach here? How well that would work?

3/23/2009 3:06:34 PM

Sean Miller is under contract with Xavier for another 9 years.

3/23/2009 3:09:00 PM

^^ are you serious?

3/23/2009 3:10:51 PM

^^^it would be a great hire if it happened, but we would have to throw a mountain of money at him, and it's quite possible that he has some animosity towards State after the whole Sendek debacle.

[Edited on March 23, 2009 at 3:16 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2009 3:15:25 PM

IT BEGINS

AGAIN

3/23/2009 3:39:09 PM

but this time, we'll come to a logical conclusion that we can submit to the athletic department

IM SURE OF IT

3/23/2009 3:49:48 PM

I'm beginning to wonder if we can even field a team next year.

Fells and McCauley graduate. Costner and Ferguson are gonetoo. Maybe Degand too now?

What's next?

3/23/2009 5:09:44 PM

People on that list I would miss:

McCauley
Ferguson (playing the way he played in his last five or so games)

Peace out to the rest of them

3/23/2009 5:11:49 PM

this shouldn't surprise anyone

3/23/2009 5:11:59 PM

I, too, will not miss 14 points and 6 boards on 46% shooting in only 28 minutes of game time on average.

[Edited on March 23, 2009 at 5:14 PM. Reason : x]

3/23/2009 5:14:39 PM

what the hell is going on with this team

3/23/2009 5:14:44 PM

^^ to be fair, Costner racked up big numbers against shit teams early in the season and all but disappeared in the last month of the season

3/23/2009 5:15:36 PM

No doubt he was a disappointment at the end of the year, but he was also a hoss until the second UNC game...

And he was the only guy who decided to show up consistently in our close OOC games (UNO, ECU, UF, Marquette and Davidson), Loyola, MD excepted...

3/23/2009 5:18:28 PM

Quote :

"^^ to be fair, Costner racked up big numbers against shit teams early in the season and all but disappeared in the last month of the season"

And his numbers were better two years ago.

I won't miss his lack of hustle, poor attitude, and general malaise on the court. The guy played like he didn't want to be here, in turn hurting the team and his (once stellar) chances at the NBA. He didn't bring anything to the floor that can't be replaced.

3/23/2009 5:19:57 PM

^^Can't argue with you there.

I'm mixed about him leaving, though. On one hand, he averaged 3 turnovers a game, was a complete headcase, and you never knew what you might get out of him.

On the other hand, he did have some big games for us and when he was on, it was fun to watch.

[Edited on March 23, 2009 at 5:23 PM. Reason : d]

3/23/2009 5:22:58 PM

Quote :

"And his numbers were better two years ago."

SLIGHTLY better, given the differential in minutes. He didn't have a bad season at all this year save the last 6 or 7 games... games in which he was incredibly disappointing.

3/23/2009 5:25:04 PM

Quote :

"I won't miss his lack of hustle, poor attitude, and general malaise on the court. The guy played like he didn't want to be here, in turn hurting the team and his (once stellar) chances at the NBA. He didn't bring anything to the floor that can't be replaced."

+1

3/23/2009 5:28:22 PM

he still had a shitload of TOs (while we're adjusting for minutes played) and he actually shot worse from the floor this year than 2 years ago

I think it's better for everyone that he moved on. We're going to play small and try to run next year and that's not his game. If we suck doing it then it's all on Lowe and his players. Brandon gets to walk away with a degree and make some cash in Europe

3/23/2009 5:29:30 PM

Quote :

"If we suck doing it then it's all on Lowe and his players."

Finally. I am so tired of hearing about Herb's players and people blaming Herb.

Wouldn't it be typical NCSU shit if Costner got drafted and actually turned into a decent pro?

3/23/2009 5:31:42 PM

Um, that would be a good thing, no?

Or should I hate because he was a Herb player? I don't remember the party line.

3/23/2009 5:34:04 PM

Ha I am just saying once he leaves here he might become the player he is capable.

Yes, it would be a very good thing.

3/23/2009 5:34:55 PM

Quote :

"Wouldn't it be typical NCSU shit if Costner got drafted and actually turned into a decent pro?"

that would be fantastic and i hope he does have a very nice NBA career if he can make it to the league.

3/23/2009 5:35:49 PM

so it has become quite apparent that we are going to be complete shit next year as well.. I'm guessing we will need to wait until year 5 before we can begin to judge Lowe's credibility?

3/23/2009 5:36:52 PM

it isn't obvious to me. it's obvious we'll be a very young team. that's about it. young teams have done good things in the past.

3/23/2009 5:37:56 PM

So the question again. Can we fairly judge Lowe next year or not since most of you make the rules?

I have said I would give him next year to right the ship but its not looking good.

3/23/2009 5:43:46 PM

I like that optimism! However, our basketball program has become a fucking disaster this past month and people are talking about what a solid pick up we are getting with Josh Davis. Umm... who? We'll see, there is always the possibility we could be a surprise team, but I expect us to be picked near the bottom of the league again next year, if not last. We'll see what Lowe can do to get us over that hump of being the worst team in the ACC with basically a completely brand new team.

[Edited on March 23, 2009 at 5:46 PM. Reason : []

3/23/2009 5:45:06 PM

Quote :

"So the question again. Can we fairly judge Lowe next year or not since most of you make the rules?"

I've been fairly consistent in saying that I won't judge until Year 5, because next year is a true rebuilding year. Frankly, I think he's in over his head, but I can't make final determination on that until after Year 5.

Honestly, I think next year will be a disaster. I'm not seeing how we finish any higher than 10th or 11th in the league given what we lose with what we bring in... Just my 2 cents...

3/23/2009 5:46:07 PM

Quote :

"So the question again. Can we fairly judge Lowe next year or not since most of you make the rules?"

who the fuck cares what you or i think?

i can see situations where sidney lowe could fuck up enough next year to warrant firing him next year.

i can also see situations where he barely skirts by in my eyes next year to give him another year. some of you will say that "well you're just going to say 'wait until next year' forever." there's no way to prove what our behavior would have been otherwise.

[Edited on March 23, 2009 at 5:49 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2009 5:46:59 PM

yeah, my optimism has been going way downhill lately. as far as i can recall, i've been pretty consistent that i will begin judging him in year 4, so bad words from me incoming

3/23/2009 5:48:22 PM

i think it's fair to judge Lowe next year, with the caveat that you keep in mind how young the team is

If we struggle in OOC but improve throughout the year and end up ~.500 in acc play I'd say that's an ok year. Ideally you'd want more at year 4 of a new coach, but it's not like this whole situation was ideal in the first place (coach #6 on the list or whatever)

If we just flat out suck ass and end up going like 12-18 (4-12) then yea, flame on

3/23/2009 5:50:01 PM

I'm not certain, but I am pretty sure this kind of voluntary attrition on the players part isn't normal for a coach going into his 4th year. It most likely isn't an indication of a good coach either. Just saying.

3/23/2009 6:11:57 PM

yes because those guys were such major contributors this year we can't live without them

3/23/2009 6:26:47 PM