^ With that much spin I'm surprised you haven't formed your own tornado.

8/22/2008 11:25:22 AM

t'aint spin. t'is the truth.

Obama is attacking John McCain for how many homes his wife owns. Less than classy, imo, and a reversal on his previous stab at chivalry.

"Wives are off limits" unless it becomes politically advantageous for me to attack your wife.
"All statements made by Obama has expiration date. All of them."

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 11:32 AM. Reason : I forget who said that, but they were right. ]

8/22/2008 11:29:39 AM

I think it is fair to say that neither Obama or McCain belong to the common joe club.

On a random note, I wish the John McCain of 2000 was running.

8/22/2008 11:30:56 AM

Obama's VP announced!

http://www.wfmz.com/vtour/tourpix/teleprompter.jpg

8/22/2008 11:33:09 AM

^^^ The point is that he doesn't know how many houses that he owns. Most married couples don't own separate sets of houses that the other doesn't know about. The fact that McCain does helps point out the reality that despite him trying to paint Obama as the out-of-touch elitist, McCain is as much if not more of an elitist. This isn't about attacking his wife, and only a zealot would interpret it that way.

Your rationalization is purely spin or delusion.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 11:36:24 AM

lol holy spin socks...you are so in the tank you can't see what's in front of you. This is a pretty big gaffe...maybe not Dukakis in a tank or purple bandaid Kerry but it's pretty big.

But now the distinction of how rich IS RICH has been sharply drawn. Many didn't know just how loaded the McCain's are. Millions (worth 100m) of dollars of money and so many houses you don't know how many you own? Marrying money? All opposed to somebody who now has some serious money in Obama, but clearly started out poor and worked for it, even paying off student loans a 3 years ago and now they have one really great house. Then with the distinction drawn, all of the elitist crap just falls away.

The GOP is right, people want their shot at being rich, they don't begrudge someone who 'makes it'. It is the american dream after all. Obama worked for it. McCain married it and revels in it to the point where he is willing to say you need $5million in income to be rich, you own so many houses you can't count them, and billionaires can be unhappy, too. Those ideas actually speak to some profoundly different world views.

Sometimes it takes something almost trivial to crystallize the difference. And this isn't windsurfing or some made up difference. Its a striking illustration of just how different and far removed John McCain's world view is from those blue collar Reagan democrats who should vote for him because the black guy isn't like him. This is the beginning of Jim Webbs realignment of Appalachia with other poor and struggling groups.

Change always starts with underlying conditions that finally reach flashpoint. McCain just struck the spark.

----
Oh and this just ran in the Washington Post, and Marc Ambinder is saying it is playing out pretty extensively in local news coverage too.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/21/AR2008082103691.html

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/08/seven_houses_hows_it_playing.php

8/22/2008 11:36:29 AM

Quote :

"The point is that he doesn't know how many houses that he owns"

cause some of them are condos...they didn't ask him how many properties he owned...they asked how many houses...wonder if Rezko helped McCain get any of his houses

8/22/2008 11:45:45 AM

^ it's clear McCain didn't know how many properties he owned either, just like he didn't know his own position on birth control and insurance, and doesn't know his own campaign's economic policy: http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/07/25/holtzeakin-rhetoric-gap/


And Obama is really an elitist:

Quote :

"Obama was raised by a single mother who relied at times on food stamps, and went to top schools on scholarships and loans. His income has increased from book sales since he spoke at the 2004 Democratic convention."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-08-21-mccain-homes_N.htm

8/22/2008 11:50:31 AM

rezko is weak. there was no wrong doing in his relationship with obama so that's why that one never had legs. just because his own affairs are shady doesn't implicate obama. similarly to why the keating 5 doesn't have any sauce to it although honestly that was worse.

8/22/2008 11:51:58 AM

Quote :

"revels in it to the point where he is willing to say you need $5million in income to be rich,"

come on, he even said as he was saying it that it would be twisted around, which is exactly what Obama's campaign and his supporters are doing

8/22/2008 11:53:44 AM

^^ I think the problem with the Rezko is that it takes too much explaining to explain what may have been wrong, and people just don't have the attention span for it.

8/22/2008 11:56:59 AM

Kainen,

Quote :

"But now the distinction of how rich IS RICH has been sharply drawn. Many didn't know just how loaded the McCain's are. Millions (worth 100m) of dollars of money and so many houses you don't know how many you own? Marrying money? All opposed to somebody who now has some serious money in Obama, but clearly started out poor and worked for it, even paying off student loans a 3 years ago and now they have one really great house."

So you're saying wives ARE in bounds for candidates to attack? Or just rich ones??

Don't worry I already know the answer. In fact, it's been the same all along. "What ever it takes to win." That should be Obama's slogan. Is he starting to remind you of Bush now?

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 11:59 AM. Reason : ``]

8/22/2008 11:57:23 AM

^ You're only undermining yourself when you jump through hoops like that.

8/22/2008 11:59:47 AM

^ there are no hoops to jump through, friend. Obama is attacking Cindy McCain for owning 7 homes. You're just a little whiney because I am reframing the debate (along the lines TWW Obamanaughts have already laid out nicely enough). Don't worry, it will pass. Like I said, it will be gone in less than 3 weeks. This has near zero traction.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason : ``]

8/22/2008 12:04:21 PM

^ You're right it'll be gone in 3 weeks, but that doesn't mean it has no traction. It's enough to stop McCain's recent rise in the polls, which is all Obama really needs at this point.

8/22/2008 12:09:58 PM

^ doubt it, but we'll see.

8/22/2008 12:10:50 PM

God, someone is getting testy.

I love how you retreat to the whole Cindy McCain is being attacked spin. What, you want to cue her crying now to get those Clinton PUMA crowd? Wouldn't surprise me. McCain is a fucking man dude, as head of household he is supposed to know how many freaking houses he owns whether or not it's his rich wife's or not. So let's say that's even what this is about...that's worse! He's a rich woman's Kept Man. She wears the pants. He's just a Himbo. A Toy Boy. An Accessory. Cindy's Handbag. "Don't you worry your pretty little head about the finances, John."
This makes McCain look weak because it's utterly emasculating him in the public's eyes. "How the hell can a man not know..."

It's the image it projects...this guy can't remember he last pumped his own gas *yes he said that*, can't recall how many homes he owns, so forth and so forth. Not to mention a month prior, in July, we learned more about McCain's perspective when his friend and co-chair of his campaign, Phil Gramm, stated that America was a "nation of whiners" It's a side of McCain that really fits into a SHARP angle the dems can take advantage of. If this were reversed, you bet your ass the GOP would be all over this in a millisecond.

What's funnier is the media doesn't even know how many houses McCain has, so they're scrambling to find out...and that's become a second layer to what is already a big story. So now the story gets additional legs. You can bet reporters will likely stumble on other narratives that spriing out from this story (like his $273,000 budget for servants).

This is important because:
1. Neutralizes the elitism attack on Obama which they were going to step up in Sept=Oct. Whenever he says that, people will think about McCain's houses.

2. McCain's gaffes from now on will be pronounced. Not knowing whats going on reinforces his age, memory, and not understanding key policy situations.

3. Timing. This anyway was going to be Dems week with the convention, VP choice. This leaves it with the Dems with all the momentum and McCain cant really counteract since he has ceded the centre stage.

4. Strengthens any future attacks on McCain's tax cuts, health care, ... you name it.

8/22/2008 12:17:12 PM

McCain is crazy, literally. He's senile. From the draft to how many houses he owns... Jesus Christ. Just give it up, you have the early stages of alzheimers

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 12:22 PM. Reason : ]

8/22/2008 12:21:47 PM

^ I don't think the house thing is Alzheimer's, I think McCain really is that sheltered from the rest of America.

8/22/2008 12:22:49 PM

Kainen,

So if you aren't paying the bills, you aren't a real man? Isn't that a little dated and sexist? I thought Obama and his supporters were suppose to represent the best of what America will be, not the worst of what it was.

Of course, I really doubt you believe that. You're in it to win it. And to Obama that means doing whatever it takes. It really is just more of the same.



[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 12:37 PM. Reason : ``]

8/22/2008 12:26:52 PM

We love America

Quote :

"rezko is weak. there was no wrong doing in his relationship with obama so that's why that one never had legs. just because his own affairs are shady doesn't implicate obama."

lol "shady"...i'd say being convicted of 16 counts of fraud and bribery are a little more than shady...but as far as no wrong doing, i'm sure a lot of obama's other campaign contributors arranged for real estate to be split, bought plots of land next door to obama so that obama could get a discount on his house, and then subsequently sold him a 10 foot wide strip to devalue his own property when the feds came hunting him down

8/22/2008 12:44:35 PM

Wow Treetwista, you sound pathetic. lol. Yeah I'm sure that all went down

And socks, nice way to take the 'hatch door' to my reasoning. Post a pic of bush and exeunt stage left. Brilliant.

8/22/2008 1:08:24 PM

Quote :

"I'm sure that all went down"

wikipedia isnt the be all end all truth, but i'll trust wikipedia's account of what happened (Which i just explained in my last post) over your italicized sarcasm

8/22/2008 1:15:19 PM

you're reaching is what I'm saying.

He did nothing illegal except exercise bad judgement but who doesnt? Hey, if you want to start trading salvos about shadiness...let's stalk about the Keating 5 and John McCain for a second then. Obama hasn't played the card but in response to Rezko busting out he certainly could if he wanted to.

Quote :

"McCain became enmeshed in a scandal during the 1980s as one of five United States Senators comprising the so-called "Keating Five".[84] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in lawful[85] political contributions from Charles Keating Jr. and his associates at Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, along with trips on Keating's jets[84] that McCain belatedly repaid two years later.[86] In 1987, McCain was one of the five senators whom Keating contacted in order to prevent the government's seizure of Lincoln, and McCain met twice with federal regulators to discuss the government's investigation of Lincoln.[84] On his Keating Five experience, McCain has said: "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the wrong thing to do."[87] In the end, McCain was cleared by the Senate Ethics Committee of acting improperly or violating any law or Senate rule, but was mildly rebuked for exercising "poor judgment" "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

Also, Cindy McCain, along with her father, made a $359,000 investment in retail property owned by Charles Keating in 1986, a year before John McCain first met with federal regulators on behalf of Keating. Keating was later convicted on 73 counts of fraud, conspiracy, and other crimes. Years later, Cindy McCain sold her investment for $15,000,000.

8/22/2008 1:29:17 PM

my argument is not that McCain is squeaky clean, its that Obama isn't...most politicians in fact aren't...even your messiah Barry Obama

8/22/2008 1:44:04 PM

Quote :

"even your messiah Barry Obama"

haha, after all this time, I'd think you'd come up with something else other than that lame old tired "messiah" thing. I mean, you can come up with something just as stupid that is at least original you know.

8/22/2008 1:54:28 PM

i never said he was squeakly clean, but you just sound so damn hot and bothered all the time when you have to reach out and call Obama 'my messiah'.

again...disrespectful , dismissive, and the same petulant attitude the mccain camp exudes. I never call McCain 'your old fogie POW card slingin' candidate do I? Have at least SOME decorum why don't you?

8/22/2008 1:59:30 PM

hahaha Yah, Tree. You gotta be original. I mean, you don't want to rehash stale criticisms of your opponent like some people....

Quote :

"McCain is crazy, literally. He's senile. From the draft to how many houses he owns... Jesus Christ. Just give it up, you have the early stages of alzheimers"

-terpball being original.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 2:01 PM. Reason : ``]

8/22/2008 2:00:51 PM

^ exactly, i didn't steal that from a conservative magazine cover

8/22/2008 2:02:45 PM

Obama supporters seem to think he's perfect...sorry if you don't like my various synonyms for Obama being a perfect candidate...should I call him your flawless deity of a candidate? Either way he obviously has zero flaws and is pretty much a messiah for atheists

^sorry i dont read political magazines, i wouldnt know what catch phrases they use, but apparently you do...also its far from original to say McCain is old and senile...I'm pretty sure Obama supporters were saying "OMG MCCAIN IS OLD" as soon as Obama's (lack of) experience was pointed out months and months ago

8/22/2008 2:06:57 PM

WHAT

EVERRRRRRRRRRRR!

8/22/2008 2:11:04 PM

no they don't actually.

You have no idea by and large the diversity that makes up what is essentially a current national lead across America that support Obama. It's a big fucking country, that's alot of people. I guess arguably half or more of America is duped and/or worshiping him right now? Oh, now that's not dismissive is it?

Face it....you just retreat to your tired limp stereotype of Obama supporters and mental shortcut the hell out of his admittedly large level of confidence to construct the standard stereotypical tirade against him and his prospective voters that's so common you could dial into 680AM right now and hear Fat Rush himself speak it 10 times on the hour.

It's like a hurt puppy who cant do anything but go back to what they know, you've got no recourse.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 2:14 PM. Reason : -]

8/22/2008 2:13:25 PM

^^Bush is an idiot!

that still gets used in TSB, probably every day...and I get called out for not being original? Besides, when I say Obama supporters think he's perfect, nobody seems to say really disagree...instead you start talking shit to me about not being original...which would lead one to believe that you in fact do think he's flawless

Quote :

"I guess arguably half or more of America is duped and/or worshiping him right now?"

you guess right, you're finally starting to see how things actually work

8/22/2008 2:13:26 PM

LOL. This new ad is brutal!

After all the ridiculous shit McCain pulled with all of those celebrity and negative ads, this is really welcome to see from the Dems. If the GOP don't want to play by the rules, neither will we. One Two punch, and that footage of him in a golfcart with bush senior is just priceless.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Obama_Out_of_Touch.html

8/22/2008 2:25:22 PM

Obama has openly admitted he has used cocaine. He never set himself up to be "perfect" and no one ever perceived him that way. People trying to make him out to be perfect is just a tactic the right is using, because no one can live up to a reputation of perfection.

8/22/2008 2:27:53 PM

Quote :

"Obama has openly admitted he has used cocaine."

is that his only flaw?

8/22/2008 2:36:25 PM

The point is that from the beginning, Obama hasn't tried to portray himself as flawless, as many people are implying.

8/22/2008 2:37:42 PM

i think any candidate is going to try and portray themselves as having the least number of flaws possible

but supporters of said candidate dont seem to see anything bad at all...imo his hope and change empty garbage was so successful because people want change in the white house...well let me inform you of a fact...Bush will not be President come Jan 09...theres change regardless of who gets elected

maybe Obama just lies louder and more eloquently so its easier to call him out for his bullshit

8/22/2008 2:41:08 PM

Kainen,

Democrats haven't played by any rules all election. Obama had been attacking McCain for months before the celebrity ads came up. Yet somehow, you think the Democrats are the VICTIM? It's crazy.

If you don't believe me, I dare you to go find the earliest McCain-Obama bash this year. I can guarantee I will find one of Obama trashing McCain even earlier.

'dems just the facts kids. Obama went negative first. Maybe just to show that he was tough like Hill or maybe just to show he had "moved beyond" the primaries. But whatever the reason, Obama started attacking McCain FIRST.

[Edited on August 22, 2008 at 6:42 PM. Reason : ``]

8/22/2008 6:40:25 PM

cry more?

8/22/2008 7:15:30 PM

Quote :

"Obama hasn't tried to portray himself as flawless,"

He doesn't have to...the left-wing press is doing that job just fine for him.

Look, both candidates are filthy rich..you have to be to get to the presidential level.

McCain is a republican version of John Kerry...rich wife supporting his political career. Being a POW doesn't necessarily make you presidential material. His "Incumbant-Protection Act also know as McCain-Feingold is an atrocious attack on free speech. His career is also spotted with the Keating Five scandal.

And Obama is just another desperate politician hacked out by the corrupt liberal political machine in Chicago. He isn't even that unique...relying on tired spiel of tax and spend wealth envy with hints of middle-class tax cuts ala Clinton.

Both suck.

But I'm convinced that Obama is a barely-closeted hater of capitalism and would place the same types on the Supreme Court bench. I can handle 4 years of him..but those Justices seem to last forever.

8/22/2008 7:48:21 PM

Quote :

"Look, both candidates are filthy rich.."

oh, really? how do you define "filthy rich?" do you use the McCain standard that you have to make >$5 Million to be "rich"?.

_____________________________________________________________

BARACK & MICHELLE OBAMA 2006 IRS INCOME TAX RETURN

   US Senate Payroll                  $   157,000  (B)
   Book Royalties                     $   551,000  (B)
   Univ. Chicago Hospital Payroll     $   274,000  (M)
   TreeHouse Foods Board Income       $    51,000  (M)
   Capital Loss                       $    -3,000

ITEMIZED DEDUCTIONS                   $   152,000

TAXABLE INCOME                        $   827,000

US INCOME TAX PAID                    $   277,000
_____________________________________________________________

JOHN & CINDY MCCAIN 2006 IRS INCOME TAX RETURNS

   US Senate Payroll                  $   162,000  (J)
   Book Royalties                     $    80,000  (J)
   Payroll                            $   299,000  (C)
   Real Estate/Partnerships/Trusts    $ 4,552,000  (C)
   Capital Gains                      $   743,000  (C)
   Dividends                          $   283,000  (C)
   Other Income/Credits               $   189,000  (C)

ITEMIZED DEDUCTIONS                 ~ $   570,000 (*approx)

TAXABLE INCOME                      ~ $ 6,000,000 (*approx)

US INCOME TAX PAID                  ~ $ 1,700,000 (*approx)

* McCain refuses to release full data on Cindy's return
______________________________________________________________

8/22/2008 11:40:03 PM

^ Harharhar excellent point my good man. Rich people can not be trusted in office during hard economic times.

8/23/2008 12:01:49 AM

Yes Mccain is rich but it's not like he hasn't suffered in his life. (Insert obligatory military record)

But aside from that, did anyone consider this:

A president's pension currently is $191,300 per year.

Assuming the next president lives to age 80. Sen McCain would receive ZERO pension as he would reach 80 at the end of two terms as president. Sen Obama would be retired for 26 years after two terms and would receive $4,973,800 in pension, nearly 5 million, WOW, darn union workers, they get all the good perks!

Therefore it would certainly make economic sense to elect McCain in November.

8/23/2008 12:20:37 AM

yeah, perhaps... but we should look at it like this:

the pension for Obama will pay for itself many, many times over compared to the cost we'd incur by lettign "Insane McCain" take charge of our nation's nuclear arsenal.

think about it. he was locked in a ratcage for 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton, forced to drink his own urine, and tortured by Gooks every day and night. Look, even his republican colleagues know he's a fucking loose cannon. it's a testament to his McCain's personal strength that he's not locked in a rubber room.

so, Senator-for-Life? okay, that's fine.... what a great way to honor his service.

But why on EARTH would anyone think its a good idea to give him the title of Commander-in-Chief, and set him loose with the world's highest quantity and quality of military hardware to go bitchcakes on whoever pisses him off on any particular day?

8/23/2008 3:42:33 AM

^ I think there is a difference between emotional fits of rage that lead to shouting and those that lead to violence. What empirical evidence is there to suggest McCain would resort to the latter? Some people are just temperamental. That doesn't mean they will necessarily be violent people.

[Edited on August 23, 2008 at 8:22 AM. Reason : .]

8/23/2008 8:19:25 AM

^^^ Nice cut and paste from an email forward.

8/23/2008 8:36:26 AM

Quote :

"the pension for Obama will pay for itself many, many times over compared to the cost we'd incur by lettign "Insane McCain" take charge of our nation's nuclear arsenal."

Wow, no arguing with that.

Thanks for your input dr. terpball on mccain sanity. Seriously, you have a great arguement. I would advise you to keep using it. I hope lawschool will teach you to use more substantive arguements. But the "old man is crazy" line is a funny one.

8/23/2008 10:05:48 AM

Quote :

"Nice cut and paste from an email forward."

Ya I know, but it was necessary. Not every knows it and I felt if I had put it in a quote box it would lessen the effect as everyone here has to go on a legitimizing spree once they see quotes in a box. But the point still stands.

8/23/2008 2:28:11 PM

maybe when John McCain was asked how many homes he owned he should've said

Quote :

"For five years, my "home" was in Vietnam, as a prisoner of war."

thats basically the angle a new ad by the SC GOP is taking

8/28/2008 4:35:56 PM