thats a good point. and if faraday in 1967 with the dharma initiative and able to befriend both chang and young charlotte then he had to have been there for quite some time. I would imagine whatever time slot they're in now would be where they would be stuck.

2/12/2009 11:18:32 AM

maybe until the the rest of the oceanic six comes back.

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2/12/2009 11:20:45 AM

^^ I mean I thought that was a given. With how much the jumps have been affecting the people left behind did you think they would be able to survive three years of it? Obviously the island is going to eventually stop somewhere, now we know thats due to Locke pushing the wheel back.

2/12/2009 1:26:36 PM

i don't understand how you guys think the time flashes will stop since locke moved the wheel.....

and now the island has "moved" again...so who knows what's going on now....
does that mean they are stuck in a certain time frame?

2/12/2009 4:30:25 PM

i'm not 100% sure if the flashes will stop, jacks dad said the wheel was off its axis, and i assumed thats why the flashes were happening, so if locke spinning it put it back on its axis then i guess they will stop, but they didn't really give an indictation either way that locke spinning it actually acomplished that.

2/12/2009 4:47:43 PM

The wheel was kinda of moving back and forth a little on its own. Maybe that was just triggering the time travel instances. When Locke put it back on it's axis, it probably stopped moving around and locked the island in place.

2/12/2009 5:05:07 PM

A few weeks ago, when we first saw Hawking in the church, Ben said he was having trouble getting everyone together; Hawking replied that if he couldn't do it then GOD HELP US ALL.

This week he shows up with only three of the six and she's all, that's cool, we can make do.

Do what

2/12/2009 5:30:49 PM

well she says, "we can get started"... i think she knows the other ones will cooperate

2/12/2009 6:07:48 PM

so the Oceanic 6 people have lived 3 years off of the island.. but the events going on ON the island are happening immediately after the end of last season.. i'm just wondering how they're gonna tie everything together

2/12/2009 6:54:01 PM

Quote :

"I appreciate your upfrontness. Based on the evidence of nosebleeds in all other people, the tentative explanation of it being due to the time shifting, and charlotte stating that her dad was alive when she left the island I think it is safe to say the man killed was either her father nor grandfather. PM me and we will discuss the transition."

i didn't say i conceded yet

and your stipulations for the bet leave the debate open until the end of the season

i mean, just because farraday is saying it is exposure does not automatically make that the case.

i'm probably going to need to concede at some point, but not yet

i think there is more to the knifing than we know
or at least i hope the writers (specifically my boy Brian K Vaughn) did not have farraday telling us how important it is not to change the past and then two scenes later have locke killing someone in the 1950s...

2/12/2009 6:59:41 PM

Quote :

"so the Oceanic 6 people have lived 3 years off of the island.. but the events going on ON the island are happening immediately after the end of last season.. i'm just wondering how they're gonna tie everything together"

have you seen the part where everyone is traveling through time?

I'm just going to go ahead and assume that the shit was off axis partially if not completely because ben put all the metal in that chamber thing.

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2/12/2009 7:03:43 PM

it is going to be interesting to see how they handle the fact that in theory, kate and jack et al are 3 years older (ben is 2 years older, right?) than the other castaways now right?


in knifing related thoughts

i also think its too much to be coincidence that we see locke kill a dude
and then immediately switch to eloise getting some kind of notice about finding a coordinate for the island

2/12/2009 7:11:26 PM

ahh so you're saying changing the past creates a 'ripple' in space/time that she's able to detect with her church organ powered computer.

also, christians shepard's body - john locke's body.

is john the new jacob's spokes person

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2/12/2009 7:20:18 PM

nah son

i believe both shepherd and locke used the spider from the Nikki/Paolo episode to fake their respective deaths

and poor fucking dr jack got fooled twice lol

2/12/2009 7:30:46 PM

*giggle*
nipple
*giggle*

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2/12/2009 7:39:37 PM

do what now

2/12/2009 7:48:34 PM

why the hell does abc wait so long to put this shit online, gah!
and they wonder why everyone just torrents it

2/13/2009 11:44:14 AM

Quote :

"or at least i hope the writers (specifically my boy Brian K Vaughn) did not have farraday telling us how important it is not to change the past and then two scenes later have locke killing someone in the 1950s..."

They way i have envisioned it is these events, including the knifing, have always transpired, which is why we see richard at john's birth since locke had been there to tell him bout it already. A clear indication of 'changing the future' would be something such as locke killing someone who we know we've seen in the future, such as widmore, which he specifically refrained from doing.

Quote :

"i didn't say i conceded yet and your stipulations for the bet leave the debate open until the end of the season "

I didn't mean to imply that you were obligated to concede at this moment. Based on your post prior to the most recent episode-which i feel established more firmly that the guy killed was likely a random, and at least not associated with charlotte- that following this episode you were more inclined to go that route. You definitely have all of the season you wish to take.

2/13/2009 11:56:17 AM

i'm thinking 3, maybe 4 episodes is all it should take to firmly convince me

i will be sad more about the gaping plot hole than the $20

i mean, you do that shit in a twilight episode, and all hell breaks loose

hell you do that in a star trek episode and the world may never know hitler

2/13/2009 11:59:42 AM

Yeah, as I've come to understand it, what happens, happened. Locke always killed that guy in 1950 whatever. The producers have been pretty clear about that. It isn't Star Trek or Back to the Future; there are no alternate timelines.

Knowing that, I don't see it as a plot hole at all. It actually kind of makes sense.

I think you're gonna be coughing up $20 bucks, Mr. Foot.

2/13/2009 12:09:40 PM

if thats the case (what always happened happened, not the $20) i'm going to think a lot less of LOST in the end

fuckin Calvinists

2/13/2009 12:10:44 PM

Faraday explained the time-travel rules, and as far as we can tell, none of the rules have been broken. Whatever happened when the time-travellers were in the past always happened. Locke always killed that guy - there was no alternate timeline where that guy lived after 1954. Nobody could ever kill Whidmore in the past, because we know Whidmore exists in 2004 and therefore was never killed in the past. etc



The theory, or how close they stick to the rules, will be really tested when they travel back to the 1970s when Charlotte was a kid. When Charlotte died, we saw the first clue of a kind of "time loop" - she told Daniel that he visited her when she was a kid and told her not to come back to the island. Now, Daniel hasn't done that yet, so we know that at some point in the future, they will jump back to the 70s, he will find young Charlotte, and tell her not to come back to the island. The question now, though, is why Daniel would tell her that, knowing that she will come back to the island and die on it and there's nothing he can do about it.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2009 12:11:07 PM

btw

it sure looked like, when juliette was shooting boat people, she hit one of them

so i hope we see Sun get blasted in the face or something (if those really are the returning losties)

^again, if thats the case, its going to be the largest drawback for me when evaluating LOST as a mythology and not just a TV show

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason : we're way beyond "just a tv show" at this point]

2/13/2009 12:13:16 PM

Quote :

"fuckin Calvinists"

It could be a lot worse

Next week's episode is entitled "316"

And there's a character named John!

Like that bible verse, you know?

You should read the comments on the Lost and Gone Forever blog. Be thankful no one here is thinking that Christian is the messiah.

2/13/2009 12:13:26 PM

to be fair

his name is

Christian Shepherd

2/13/2009 12:15:04 PM

Oh no, they got to you too

2/13/2009 12:15:32 PM

I don't think Christian Shepherd is the messiah, but if the episode is called "316" and they're referencing the Bible, I can see the parallels there b/t John 3:16 and Locke's situation. As they touched on at the end of this week's episode, "I guess that's why they call it sacrifice," John is going to die in an effort to "save" the people, or the island, or something like that. Much like John 3:16, God sacrificing his only son.

I think the episode title is allusion, not literal reference, but that's just me.

2/13/2009 12:27:33 PM

yeah

the problem with LOST fans is they take a harmless cultural allusion and run with it

ptosis' dog and all

2/13/2009 12:31:41 PM

So, does Locke come back as the new vessel of Jacob?

Like Locke (presumably), Christian was in a pine box when he came to island

2/13/2009 12:36:53 PM

Quote :

"When Charlotte died, we saw the first clue of a kind of "time loop" - she told Daniel that he visited her when she was a kid and told her not to come back to the island."

So locke telling richard to visit him when he was born wasn't a time loop?



no shit they're referencing the bible. that has nothing to do with john being the messiah. if every cultural reference they used was to be taken literally we'd be halfway up shits creek by now. it just so happens that most people in this country believe in the bible and not any of the other random shit they mention that's to obscure for most people to catch on.

the real question is why is his name off the island Jeremy Bentham. I could understand him picking a discrete name while back in america, but jeremy bentham isn't exactly the most discrete of names.



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2/13/2009 12:46:52 PM

i mean, think about it this way. If john WAS the messiah and everyone else was in purgatory or something, they wouldn't make that as obvious as titling the episode 3:16...

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2/13/2009 4:15:08 PM

i don't think its a purgatory thing. time travel plus that would be a little too much for any one series.

2/13/2009 4:18:24 PM

that was just an example. they said after the first season that it wasn't a christian metaphysique (i just made that up)

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2/13/2009 4:22:05 PM

Quote :

"the real question is why is his name off the island Jeremy Bentham. I could understand him picking a discrete name while back in america, but jeremy bentham isn't exactly the most discrete of names."

how is jeremy bentham not a discrete name?

until it was a lost characters name, what do you think the cultural awareness of Jeremy Bentham was?

i guarantee you it was exponentially lower than the awareness of Ben's covername "Dean Moriarity", unless of course you think more people have read 19th century philosophy than "On the Road"

i still think his name is Bentham because of the whole "body kept in a box" thing and the "always votes yes when there is a tie" thing

2/13/2009 5:48:07 PM

im wondering when the whole thing comes back into play where Ben told Widmore he was going to kill his daughter

2/13/2009 5:54:43 PM

^^ i'll give you that. No one probably knew who John Locke was until lost came out. I however went to a super liberal private school, so i guess i was fortunate to recognize that.

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2/13/2009 9:43:51 PM

There are first season LOST episodes that come on every sunday morning and I record those and watch them.

Woodfoot i suspect may also do this, because some of his post have been in line with it, or maybe he just watches the episodes as he sees fit, and it happens to coincide with the ones on TV.

Regardless, the one that was this week was where the french woman, Danielle, finally wonders down to the survivors camp. At this point she never really meets Jin, because he is working on the raft. The episode is careful to point out that people who have never met her know who she is (probably due to when sayid came back) so Jin could know who she is without having met her. Does anyone remember a point where her and Jin actually met?

Another interesting point of the episode is when they're approaching the black rock she speaks about this being the area where one of the guys in her party lost his arm, which we clearly saw on last wednesday's episode. Last wednesday's episode also further confirmed that all events taking places through time travel have happened before. Danielle was willing and ready to go into the temple with the black smoke monster, but it took Jin's intervention to prevent her from doing so, which we know she never did before.

Looking at the previous episodes really shows me that they have known a lot about what they were doing since the beginning or have at least been very careful about working in things that were mentioned obscurely in the first seasons.

One thing i'm interested in seeing, as was mentioned before, is if Daniel still tries to stop Charlotte from coming back to the island, you know, since he knows its futile and all. Does he do it because he has been told it has taken place before and does it for the sake of continuity or does he do it because he thinks this time he can really change things, even though he knows he can't, or does he not even try.

2/16/2009 10:00:02 AM

Quote :

"if Daniel still tries to stop Charlotte from coming back to the island, you know, since he knows its futile and all."

i think he definitely does try to convince her not to come back. Deep down he knows it's futile, but he does it out of pure emotion because he feels like he has to and because he loves her

2/16/2009 10:03:32 AM

i've been rewatching the whole series from episode 1 online, and i think they started out with general ideas about where they wanted to go, and especially with the time travel they've just had to go back and work within the confines of what they've already established, but they've been pretty creative about it--especially jin's intervention, which i thought was pretty cool.

i'm trying to work out what the endgame will be like: saving the world somehow. but saving it from what?

2/16/2009 10:26:31 AM

Quote :

". Danielle was willing and ready to go into the temple with the black smoke monster, but it took Jin's intervention to prevent her from doing so, which we know she never did before."

orly?

and i called the arm losing thing like 2 weeks ago

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2/16/2009 11:01:16 AM

cookie?

2/16/2009 11:07:08 AM

^the episode aired less than a week ago so i don't know how you related the scene in which the guy lost his arm to her reference of it taking place in season one a week prior to when the episode aired. You may have brought it up in some loose way, but its difficult to recall what has taken place over 12pages of rambling.

2/16/2009 11:07:58 AM

i think i've mentioned this before
but wouldn't jin and rosseau have met during the "trick the others with the dynamite tents" plot? (if not sooner)

2/16/2009 11:21:59 AM

well when we saw jin alive and he met danielle i said, we may figure out how that guy lost his arm and who was outside the radio tower when she made the thing.

i just figured if they were going to show danielle in the past, since she's dead in the present, they weren't going to show anything new about her and would just show everything she spoke of. the sickness her people got etc.


can't remember if i posted that or not now.

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[Edited on February 16, 2009 at 11:33 AM. Reason : hmm i guess i didn't post it]

2/16/2009 11:31:22 AM

wait

how did you know a guy lost his arm?

2/16/2009 11:49:55 AM

when they go to blackrock with danielle like 3 seasons ago, she said "this is the place where montand lost his arm"

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[Edited on February 16, 2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason : i think i watched that like 3 weeks ago.]

2/16/2009 11:52:05 AM

so does the blackrock cover the temple or somethin

[Edited on February 16, 2009 at 11:53 AM. Reason : ^you're right, that episode was def on the "Get Lost Again" replays SeriousCat talked about]

2/16/2009 11:53:09 AM

now that we don't know yet. the place that smoke monster came out of had hieroglyphs and shit but on the island that doesn't mean very much i guess.

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2/16/2009 11:56:07 AM

^^^yeah thats the same episode to which i was referring.


Woodfoot

from what i can tell they haven't met so far. in the episode i mention above she is preparing everyone to trick the others by use of dynamite but jin is working on the boat the entire time, and then sets sail while they are off getting the dynamite. i recall another trick 'em plan that was at the end of season 3 where bernard and some stayed behind, if this is to what you're referring then they may have met. i honestly can't recall. but that may have been their first time. i would have to rewatch that episode to know for sure.s

[Edited on February 16, 2009 at 11:57 AM. Reason : ^]

2/16/2009 11:56:50 AM

I'm Big Business and i condone the use of page 13.

2/16/2009 11:57:56 AM