I don't know, Rove occasionally stumbles across reason, as when he said McCain goes too far in some ads, likely referring to McCain's lies when he misconstrued Obama's support for Stranger-Danger education as comprehensive sex ed for kindergartners. And you know its bad when someone slimy as Rove is calling out someone on his own end of the political spectrum for going too far in the lie department.

Quote :

"Sup, Perky Katie Couric and her network are incredibly biased. Could be a reason why her ratings are so bad."

Whether or not you think uncommitted CBS viewers, & CNN viewers are biased in the polls, I think the end result will be people agreeing with the polls thinking Biden won the debate by a small margin, but not enough to drastically effect the presidential race.

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 1:06 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2008 1:04:47 AM

biden said it so its true...

10/3/2008 1:05:31 AM

treetwista said it so it's true

10/3/2008 1:06:05 AM

A FFFFFUNNNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE

10/3/2008 1:06:36 AM

He's a cancer to the US political process. Everyone knows it.

10/3/2008 1:07:22 AM

i'm gone a week, and when i get back, (most of) tsb is still as clueless as ever

10/3/2008 1:07:55 AM

it's just you, holmes

10/3/2008 1:08:22 AM

I love the argument (and this goes for EVERYONE) that says that facts are only facts if someone who you like tells you them. You know....if Moses himself told me that 1+2=4.....and Hitler himself told me that 1+2=3...well, I hate Hitler like AIDS, but he's still correct.

If it weren't for fallacies, this country would be a very different place

10/3/2008 1:08:37 AM

quit trolling me dipshit, find something better to do with your time

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 1:09 AM. Reason : ^^]

10/3/2008 1:08:50 AM

ha. good call

10/3/2008 1:09:13 AM

Palin hijacked the debate and made it about what she felt like talking about. Because of that, theres no way you can say she won.

10/3/2008 1:13:26 AM

I love how treetwista, who recently posted a Fox News election BLOG as support for his statement, is trying to call other people out on sources... Ha!

10/3/2008 1:13:37 AM

You guys make me laugh.

10/3/2008 1:14:14 AM

Quote :

"My favorite Palin response of the night: IFILL: What has this administration done right or wrong -- this is the great, lingering, unresolved issue, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict -- what have they done? And is a two-state solution the solution? PALIN: A two-state solution is the solution. And Secretary Rice, having recently met with leaders on one side or the other there, also, still in these waning days of the Bush administration, trying to forge that peace, and that needs to be done, and that will be top of an agenda item, also, under a McCain-Palin administration. Israel is our strongest and best ally in the Middle East. We have got to assure them that we will never allow a second Holocaust, despite, again, warnings from Iran and any other country that would seek to destroy Israel, that that is what they would like to see. We will support Israel. A two-state solution, building our embassy, also, in Jerusalem, those things that we look forward to being able to accomplish, with this peace-seeking nation, and they have a track record of being able to forge these peace agreements. They succeeded with Jordan. They succeeded with Egypt. I'm sure that we're going to see more success there, also. It's got to be a commitment of the United States of America, though. And I can promise you, in a McCain-Palin administration, that commitment is there to work with our friends in Israel. Right: Forge that peace, no second Holocaust, two-state solution, capital in Jerusalem. It's like she's just randomly spewing every talking point she's ever uploaded on Israel. (Which I'm guessing is what happened.) Biden by contrast, hit the same question out of the park: The Bush administration legitimized Hamas by holding an election in the West Bank, then let Hezbollah fill the vacuum in Southern Lebanon by not using NATO troops."

i enjoyed reading this

10/3/2008 1:20:29 AM

So when one side tries doing things like the other side wants....and it doesn't work...then it was former's side that was wrong and should be held liable. Yah...

10/3/2008 1:25:12 AM

I thought they were both about average in terms of what I've come to expect from debates, especially the veeps. Failure to answer questions, repeatedly going back to issues that have already been long passed . . . it ain't new.

Biden won, I thought, but not by a landslide. Palin got in a handful of jabs, especially about Biden's comments during the primary about Obama and McCain. Biden had more specifics to throw out, which was well played -- it was the best way to pwn Palin without looking like a bully, which a lot of people were worried about.

10/3/2008 1:29:04 AM

the only problem with Biden's specifics were that many of them were factually wrong. This is of course means trouble for the McPalin camp in the sense that any undecideds don't bother to actually check the statements so they take it at face value. It comes down to being honest and not so popular or lying and being popular....most politicians take the latter road unfortunately...

10/3/2008 1:50:15 AM

I love how Palin was like "we have no idea whats causing global warming. WE NEED TO CUT DOWN ON EMISSIONS!'

10/3/2008 1:56:16 AM

If I recall...Palin said that global warming was not man made solely as far as everyone knows and rather a cyclical effect but that certainly there is pollution which isn't good regardless so cutting down on it is a good thing.

I liked how Joe Biden said with authority that global warming is all man made....

gah.......

10/3/2008 2:51:07 AM

Probably because it's true.

(He didn't say it was all caused, just that global warming in the context of our discussion is man-made.)

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 2:56 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2008 2:56:00 AM

Agree with the comment that McCain/Palin are like Kerry/Edwards. McCain was deemed "electable" but nobody is crazy about him; Palin is an unknown, a seeming rock star.

Stylistically I don't like her at all; she comes off as a college student who just left Philosophy class and is having a coffee shop debate about something she just learned. She just hopes her personality can paper over the rough spots, and that her likability will carry her. She doesn't seem like a very quick study.

Content-wise she is a bit like McCain-lite. Light on details, that is. She's an aspiring stateswoman to the second highest office in the land; it's really not too much to ask her to have a very sophisticated world view. I don't think she should relate everything back to her experiences in Alaska or to what John McCain believes. She should have some very well-formed, stern opinions of her own that are, dare I suggest it, intellectual or ideological.

What it boils down to is this: are we getting LBJ or Quayle? Truman or Agnew?

She's not a deal breaker for me -- yet -- with regards to my Presidential choice. It would take a lot for me to go Left in this election at this time. But she doesn't exactly inspire confidence; she isn't charismatic so much as merely charming. We have two wars, major geopolitical issues, complex domestic problems, long-standing ones, philosophical breakdown in government -- we need leadership, damn it, and my gut reaction is that she scares the bejeezus out of me. In this context. I am sure she's a great person otherwise, but this ain't for her.

God help us if McCain dies in the first month. We just can't have someone sitting there with her head spinning, saying to herself "gosh, I'm a long ways from Kansas" ...

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 4:23 AM. Reason : foo]

10/3/2008 4:22:27 AM

soooo yeah, is there like a reputable, unbiased site i can go to that will basically lay out each party's platforms with pros and cons? i feel like there's so much info, and so many conflicting numbers swirling around, that its impossible to make an informed decision. it doesn't help when one candidate says "here's my plan," and the other guy says "your plan sucks," and candidate 1 then says "no it doesn't, yours sucks."

blah

10/3/2008 6:48:00 AM

Quote :

"If I recall...Palin said that global warming was not man made solely as far as everyone knows and rather a cyclical effect but that certainly there is pollution which isn't good regardless so cutting down on it is a good thing. I liked how Joe Biden said with authority that global warming is all man made.... gah......."

Hearing Joe Biden say that really worries me.

10/3/2008 7:50:47 AM

^^http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=539366

10/3/2008 8:42:39 AM

^^ Why?

10/3/2008 8:45:12 AM

B/c he's wrong thats why. The last thing I want to see is the new administration (come January) throwing tons of money (and regulations against business and private citizens) at something that isn't fact and that has no scientific consensus.

10/3/2008 8:56:19 AM

10/3/2008 9:16:03 AM

10/3/2008 9:17:41 AM

Why is it when you transpose a graph of CO2 concentration over time and one of temperature over time you get several orders of magnitude of an increase in both at the start of the industrial revolution?

Not to mention there is scientific consensus on it. What there isn't consensus on is how bad it actually is and when it will become a catastrophic problem.

I say this and I know my carbon footprint is much higher than anyone here.

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 9:27 AM. Reason : a]

10/3/2008 9:25:28 AM

Quote :

"Why is it when you transpose a graph of CO2 concentration over time and one of temperature over time you get several orders of magnitude of an increase in both at the start of the industrial revolution?"

I must quote yet again...

Quote :

"a graph of CO2 concentration over time and one of temperature"

Quote :

"you get several orders of magnitude of an increase"

Saran Palin
Is the stupid contagious?

10/3/2008 9:35:54 AM

Quote :

"it's just you, holmes"

I think it's supposed to be "homes".
I doubt tupac et al were fans of the fiction of conan doyle.

10/3/2008 9:46:14 AM

Quote :

"Not to mention there is scientific consensus on it. What there isn't consensus on is how bad it actually is and when it will become a catastrophic problem."

don't bother. These people don't even think there is scientific consensus on the theory of evolution. They think that science is split right down the middle and there's a huge argument going on for evolution vs. creation

10/3/2008 9:53:34 AM

so the majority of TSB, which is liberal and supports Obama, thinks Biden won the VP debate

WHAT A SURPRISE

10/3/2008 9:55:29 AM

Palin is a very good actress, you have to give her that...but I will NOT forgive the fact that she could not list one periodical that she reads to get her news. She is not a smart person, a smart person knows how to bullshit, jesus, it's not hard to just start listing newspapers and magazines regardless of whether you read them. She's not a stickler for the truth, by "read", technically that could mean glancing at the headlines.

This debate did not make up for all of her previous nonsense.

10/3/2008 9:55:34 AM

Quote :

"It would take a lot for me to go Left in this election at this time."

--Smoker4

Really? I always thought were a Leftist/Democrat or that you at least voted that way. I never pictured you as a Republican/Conservative. I mean, I have seen you post for 7+ years and that's how I remember it.

10/3/2008 10:13:34 AM

lets not get in a global warming debate in this thread. I mentioned last night's debate in the global warming thread so if you want to argue about it go post in there.

10/3/2008 10:17:22 AM

It's amazing how many political experts are on TWW.....diamond in the rough

10/3/2008 10:32:48 AM

This debate has clearly established McCain-Palin as the lulz ticket.

Just imagine what the Soap Box would be like if she became president.

10/3/2008 10:38:30 AM

Quote :

"Viewers: Palin defies expectations, Biden wins"

-CNN's top story

I was worried people would associate winning with the "most improved" kid in the class rather than the one that got the higher grade, I'm glad I was wrong.

10/3/2008 11:00:36 AM

Quote :

"51 percent of the debate watchers said Biden did the best job."

51%? Seems closer than you would think from reading this thread.

Maybe the rest of the country doesn't harp on shit like saying nu-q-lur, OMGGGGG SHE'S A MORON!!!!!!

10/3/2008 11:07:18 AM

I don't think that it is 51-49. There are a lot of undecideds in there. She did what she needed to do. She exceeded expectations

10/3/2008 11:16:10 AM

^^Rest of the quote,

Quote :

"Overall, 51 percent of the debate watchers said that Biden did the best job in the debate, while 36 percent gave the nod to Palin."

.

10/3/2008 11:19:22 AM

errr my bad

10/3/2008 11:21:31 AM

Just to share some nice 1 liners from Biden

The ultimate bridge to no where.


Another good line from Biden was in response to the moderators question of
"What is true and what is false about causes of climate change?" (this was after Palin had just responded that she didn't know if global warming was man-made or not)

"If you don't understand what the cause is, its virtually impossible to come up with a solution. We know what the cause is. The cause is man-made."
-Biden

10/3/2008 11:22:21 AM

yeah, Palin's recent remarks that even though we don't know what is causing global warming, we must do something about it is absurd.
She is actually saying that even if we are in a natural cyclical warming period, we should try to stop it from happening.

10/3/2008 11:33:38 AM

NO she was saying that since PART of GW could be man-made we should do something about that PART.

seemed clear to me.

10/3/2008 11:39:20 AM

well last night was the first time she admitted that part of it might be man made.
Previously she has said that it's not. Then she said that it's not, but we should do soething about it. Last night is just her shifting even further to a more popular message.

10/3/2008 11:42:02 AM

^and apparently one that makes more sense than her previous conflicting statements

Though I wish she would have stuck with saying its not causing it.

10/3/2008 11:55:45 AM

Palin's shoutout on national television was really immature.
along with her "heck no", "darn right", and "gonna" phrases.

10/3/2008 12:01:31 PM

^I know.....god forbid we have a politician with a personality

10/3/2008 12:11:04 PM