Quote :

"At least open carriers are honest and forthright. That's far less suspicious than finding out somebody that was talking to me and my children was secretly packing one. "

would you treat someone differently that was open carrying as opposed to a person that could either be concealed carrying or unarmed?

3/29/2012 11:51:08 AM

I hate how this case has somehow turned into an arguement about gun rights/gun control.

Hopefully a bunch of retarded lawmakers won't get up in arms about how we have to "do something". The whole race card is making this bigger than the arizona safeway shooting.

3/29/2012 11:52:22 AM

Lol fucking with the sliders in photoshop until every line and feature is 5 times as thick is not "enhancing"

3/29/2012 11:53:09 AM

^^ its the first time i've seen some one open carry in a long time other then LEO and Security Guards.

Quote :

"I carry concealed, no need to panic soccer moms and such."

AGREED!!

3/29/2012 11:53:53 AM

Quote :

"would you treat someone differently that was open carrying as opposed to a person that could either be concealed carrying or unarmed?"

I'd still regard them as likely paranoid or unstable, especially if they did so 24/7, but not as much as somebody I found out was doing the same thing but secretly.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 12:00 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 11:54:49 AM

^I think you'd be surprised at the actual type of people who have CCW permits.

3/29/2012 12:04:08 PM

I wouldn't be, because I know quite a few from my hometown in rural PA, in at least one case I learned while hunting with one of them, and another at the shooting range. Of course, I'm sure there's plenty I don't know of (being concealed, after all). Believe it or not, not every person to the left of Pat Buchanan is a lily arugula-chomping city slicker who's never seen a firearm more dangerous than a Nerf gun.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ,]

3/29/2012 12:08:43 PM

so what you're saying is that you treat people that are armed like they have a mental disorder, but you treat everyone you don't know is armed differently.

Do you walk on eggshells around trained fighters and people that are much larger/stronger than you as well?

3/29/2012 12:11:10 PM

Quote :

"It's not about being terrified, it's about being prepared. It doesn't matter how small of a chance there is of being attacked if you're dead. I don't understand the hate on people that carry a gun, but I can't say I'm surprised."

It's not about being prepared. That's some feel good horseshit gun owners tell themselves to justify their need to have a lethal toy. I work in a tall building, and I am statistically more likely to die in a fire than be shot by a madman, but I don't go around wearing a parachute backpack "just in case."

A lot of people like to pretend that they're little boy scouts, ready for any such situation. Pardon me for cynicism, but you'd be more "prepared" for every day occurrences with a swiss army knife than a gun.

If you want to carry a gun with you, fine, have at it -- thats your right. I just think its stupid and counter productive. But at least just admit that you're likely not going to be as johnny-on-the-spot as you think you're going to be in your hero day-dreams.

And if you're carrying a gun while planting seeds or at your daughters chucky-cheese party...then I definitely think you fall under the category of people who have tough guy fantasies.

3/29/2012 12:34:03 PM

Quote :

"so what you're saying is that you treat people that are armed like they have a mental disorder, but you treat everyone you don't know is armed differently. Do you walk on eggshells around trained fighters and people that are much larger/stronger than you as well?"

If they wear loose fitting clothing 24/7 with the express purpose of being prepared for a fight, then yeah. There's a difference between "being trained in self defense" and "going out of their way to be uniquely prepared for self defense while gardening in the suburbs."

Quote :

"And if you're carrying a gun while planting seeds or at your daughters chucky-cheese party...then I definitely think you fall under the category of people who have tough guy fantasies."

Bingo. I think the CCWer's secretly know this, that's why they always try to scale back the conversation and instead reference situations like "Walking down a dark alley in a bad neighborhood in the dead of night." instead of the actual situations 24/7 CC incur, like going to PTA conferences or a your desk job. Or little gems like this:

Quote :

"Comparing somebody who carelessly has a gun sitting around the house versus somebody who is regularly practicing and training are like comparing a mall cop to a Ranger. They both may have a gun, but they are VASTLY different."

What they don't realize is that, to everybody but themselves and fellow CCWers, they are simply mall cops without mall cop jobs and slightly less training.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 12:53:29 PM

Quote :

"You'd be shitting your pants like any other person when a guy with a mask has a gun to your head. Don't try the tough guy routine here, no one buys it. It's not about being terrified, it's about being prepared. It doesn't matter how small of a chance there is of being attacked if you're dead. I don't understand the hate on people that carry a gun, but I can't say I'm surprised."

I've never had a guy with a mask hold a gun to my head. I am not trying to be a tough guy, but it seems like you people are terrified of everything around you. If my friends and I can walk through North Philadelphia at night without getting shot, I am reasonably sure you won't be attacked while gardening in the middle of the day in a quiet suburban neighborhood.

3/29/2012 12:53:30 PM

people who are anti gun are idiots. plain and simple.

3/29/2012 1:28:17 PM

more like ruled by emotion.

guns are scary oooo

3/29/2012 1:32:05 PM

Apparently "fear" is not an emotion.

3/29/2012 1:34:10 PM

my door was broken down before my eyes. and i didn't shoot them. but i scared them away and called the cops
sometimes i wish i had shot them, multiple times each.


i'm not going to tell you what color their skin was . because that would spoil the story wouldn't it? (but you could easily guess and get it right)


but i'm glad you guys don't carry. good for you. life just isn't valuable or worth defending for some people.

i began carrying the day my dad had a knife pulled on him next to a public park. i'm not going to tell you what skin color he was either. but you can guess all you want. you're probably right on the first guess

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 1:41 PM. Reason : -]

3/29/2012 1:38:08 PM

Quote :

"Regardless of the moral issues of gun ownership, there are statistical realities about how the guns end up being used. There's no "belief" involved, unless you "believe" you're not like all those people in statistics (Hint: Every single one of them believed that too). Accidental shootings, unjustifiable homocides, domestic abuse, suicides, and being shot by your own gun are all more likely outcomes than actual self-defense. "

Str8Foolish, I'm seriously interested in knowing if owning a gun is worth the risks and the issue is not as clear cut as you make it seem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics#Self-defense

Quote :

"In an extensive series of studies of large, nationally representative samples of crime incidents, criminologist Gary Kleck found that crime victims who defend themselves with guns are less likely to be injured or lose property than victims who either did not resist, or resisted without guns. This was so, even though the victims using guns typically faced more dangerous circumstances than other victims. The findings applied to both robberies and assaults.[102] Other research on rape indicated that although victims rarely resisted with guns, those using other weapons were less likely to be raped, and no more likely to suffer other injuries besides rape itself, than victims who did not resist, or resisted without weapons.[103] There is no evidence that victim use of a gun for self-protection provokes offenders into attacking the defending victim or results in the offender taking the gun away and using it against the victim. ...Although guns are frequently used in the U.S. in committing suicide, the overwhelming evidence compiled from the psychiatric literature is that the real culprit is untreated or poorly managed depression. In other countries, other methods of suicide are used at even higher rates than the U.S., so gun availability affects the method used but not overall suicide rates. Gun control advocates argue that the strongest evidence linking availability of guns to injury and mortality rates comes in studies of domestic violence, most often referring to the series of studies by Arthur Kellermann... Critics of Kellermann's work and its use by advocates of gun control point out that since it deliberately ignores crimes of violence occurring outside the home (Kellermann states at the outset that the characteristics of such homicides are much more complex and ambiguous, and would be virtually impossible to classify rigorously enough), it is more directly a study of domestic violence than of gun ownership... Kleck showed that no more than a handful of the homicides that Kellermann studied were committed with guns belonging to the victim or members of his or her household, and thus it was implausible that victim household gun ownership contributed to their homicide. Instead, the association that Kellermann found between gun ownership and victimization merely reflected the widely accepted notion that people who live in more dangerous circumstances are more likely to be murdered, but also were more likely to have acquired guns for self-protection prior to their death"

Correlation != causation, dontcha know

3/29/2012 1:43:10 PM

Lol pack_bryan you should probably not mention you carry, it's not going to help the perception that such persons are unstable, paranoid, and racist.

3/29/2012 1:43:51 PM

Terrified? Absolutely not. I am just realistic. There are evil people out there, and you are living in fantasy land if you think there aren't.

Why not train and prepare yourself to handle situations that can and do happen?

3/29/2012 1:44:51 PM

^^ you are the only truly racist left on the face of the earth

how does that feel? you're like a science experiment that keeps giving back valuable data

3/29/2012 1:52:45 PM

Quote :

"Correlation != causation, dontcha know"

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099

Quote :

"After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05). . On average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault."

The full list of factors adjusted for include: alcohol involvement, illicit drug involvement and geographic/demographic variables (racial breakdown, local unemployment rate, local income, alcohol outlets per mile, drugs arrest per mile etc), as well as the individuals' age, race, gender, occupation, class, prior arrests and education.

It's almost as though gun carriers, perhaps because of inflated confidence or paranoia, might be more apt escalate a situation to a violent one.

Quote :

"Instead, the association that Kellermann found between gun ownership and victimization merely reflected the widely accepted notion that people who live in more dangerous circumstances are more likely to be murdered"

I wonder if that includes gardening outside your suburban home. I love it, white suburban gun owners deferring to statistics from the hood to justify their paranoia, then using their paranoia to justify gunning down someone "obviously from the hood" walking down "their" street.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 1:57 PM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 1:56:57 PM

Quote :

"It's almost as though gun carriers, perhaps because of inflated confidence or paranoia, might be more apt escalate a situation to a violent one."

Sure, I can believe that.

Let's start a controlled study. Our control group gets no guns, while our experimental group gets guns. Let's see what happens.

3/29/2012 2:00:08 PM

Quote :

"Why not train and prepare yourself to handle situations that can and do happen?"

Right, like an armed robbery at Chuck E. Cheese. Keep trying to retreat the topic from "24/7 concealed carry" to "any training or ownership of a gun."

3/29/2012 2:00:31 PM

You are ridiculous and your attempts to distract and downplay an argument through hyperbole and cherry picking are annoying.

Your internet persona gives me the impression of some scrawny white boy whose never been physically assaulted, put in a life or death situation, or had to use quick wits/decisiveness to prevent catastrophe. Who also hides behind statistics and reason with little to no real life experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong. It just seems that anyone who's had field experience in combat, a street fight, or been pitted against someone else in a do or die moment, would not make such sweeping confident remarks about the safety of the world.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 2:09 PM. Reason : words]

3/29/2012 2:07:51 PM

Easy there buddy, try to have some trigger discipline on the personal attacks.

3/29/2012 2:13:10 PM

this is devolving into what basically amounts to trolling

3/29/2012 2:14:14 PM

yeh only str8foolish is allowed to go the personal attack route. don't stoop to his level.

3/29/2012 2:29:48 PM

Quote :

"Terrified? Absolutely not. I am just realistic. There are evil people out there, and you are living in fantasy land if you think there aren't. Why not train and prepare yourself to handle situations that can and do happen?"

Do you not see a middle ground between taking precautions like getting a CCW and using it out and about or having a gun in arms reach laying in bed at night and packing heat at 2pm on a Saturday afternoon while your kid and their friends are playing hop scotch in the driveway?

3/29/2012 2:52:17 PM

Quote :

"this is devolving into what basically amounts to trolling"

welcome! new to TSB?

3/29/2012 2:56:24 PM

Can someone quote the post where this became turned into an argument between CCW in potentially dangerous situations/environments and CCW while gardening in suburbia? I missed that part and I don't really feel like browsing through 3 pages to find it.

3/29/2012 2:56:55 PM

Reread the sparky argument. Started there...

3/29/2012 2:58:06 PM

^^

people got their panties all in a wad because of a recent experience that i shared where i was doing yard work, carrying concealed to break in my new supertuck holster and just getting accustomed to carrying in general. i noticed a strange man talking to my son and some other neighbor hood kids in the cul de sac in front of my house. i approached him to check on things. turned out it was the dad of one of the kids who lived on the other side of the neighborhood. i was carrying and didn't tell the man i was carrying. blah blah blah.

3/29/2012 3:16:27 PM

Quote :

"Do you not see a middle ground between taking precautions like getting a CCW and using it out and about or having a gun in arms reach laying in bed at night and packing heat at 2pm on a Saturday afternoon while your kid and their friends are playing hop scotch in the driveway?"

Yes, I do see the middle ground.

I advocate responsible use of CCW. I am definitely not advocating toting it around to every excursion to "chucky cheese" or other benign environments.

However, what's the point of CCW if you aren't going to carry it? I do see the argument that it is a little unnecessary to have it on you while gardening. But, the point of CCW is to be able have access to a gun when you are out and about. In situations where there are a lot of kids, or the risk seems benign, I can understand someones distrust of a CCW, but violent situations can arise anywhere. Granted, it is less likely at a children's playground than in an unfamiliar neighborhood or territory; but what is the point of being prepared for unexpected situations, then actively disarm yourself when you expect that nothing should happen.

3/29/2012 3:18:15 PM

I suppose someone's big ass dog could get loose and run up and maul you/your kid. That's probably about the most dangerous thing I could think of in a midday suburban scenario like that.

3/29/2012 3:23:54 PM

Am I the only one who finds it downright wacky that the pro-CCW is actually saying that those who don't carry firearms are taking unnecessary risks.

How does your argument not result in that? Do you live in a more dangerous place than these pacifist people who apparently don't understand the danger of a violent conflict? That runs counter to the arguments. The arguments are saying that all people are at risk of a violent encounter and by not preparing themselves they're exposing themselves to a risk. In fact, and unacceptable risk, evidenced by the fact that you carry.

Really? Unarmed people are taking unnecessary risks?

This is the same logic with which people drive SUVs. It's safer for the people in the car, right?

3/29/2012 3:28:04 PM

Quote :

"Do you not see a middle ground between taking precautions like getting a CCW and using it out and about or having a gun in arms reach laying in bed at night and packing heat at 2pm on a Saturday afternoon while your kid and their friends are playing hop scotch in the driveway?"

Not unless you think no one has ever been attacked at their home in the day time. Ultimately if you're going to carry, you might as well carry when you can, since a gun is useless if you don't have it when you need it. As pointed out above, you probably could have made the same argument to the guy at the church, after all who expects to get shot at a church? And I'm sure no one at VT or any of the other schools around the country ever thought they'd be attacked when guns are illegal. I guarantee no one at the youth camp in Norway planned on being attacked.

Let's be honest here, if you think there's a valid reason to carry "out and about" then what makes "out and about" at church, or school, or a youth camp any more dangerous than your home street? There's no magical barrier around your front yard that keeps bad things from happening.

Quote :

"Really? Unarmed people are taking unnecessary risks?"

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anyone here* saying those that choose to go unarmed are taking "unreasonable risks". A risk? Sure, but it's hardly unreasonable. As you point out, most people are safe 95% of the time.

*pack_bryan may have said it, but you should ignore him since he'll say anything he thinks will get a rise out of Str8foolish who should damn well no better than to respond to him at this point.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 3:37 PM. Reason : sfg]

3/29/2012 3:28:31 PM

The funny thing is that, according to Stand Your Ground, Martin had a right to defend himself against, and kill if needed, Zimmerman. That's how fucked up that law is.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 3:39 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2012 3:39:31 PM

Unless he's the one that started the fight, which at this point kind of sounds like what happened.

3/29/2012 3:42:45 PM

Quote :

"Am I the only one who finds it downright wacky that the pro-CCW is actually saying that those who don't carry firearms are taking unnecessary risks. How does your argument not result in that? Do you live in a more dangerous place than these pacifist people who apparently don't understand the danger of a violent conflict? That runs counter to the arguments. The arguments are saying that all people are at risk of a violent encounter and by not preparing themselves they're exposing themselves to a risk. In fact, and unacceptable risk, evidenced by the fact that you carry. Really? Unarmed people are taking unnecessary risks? This is the same logic with which people drive SUVs. It's safer for the people in the car, right?"

My opinion is that they are less prepared to protect themselves. I.E. They are decreasing the likelihood they can effectively stop a violent incident from occurring or escalating.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 4:00 PM. Reason : ;]

3/29/2012 4:00:15 PM

my biggest problem with people who want to conceal-carry is their hubris. Like, they genuinely believe that because they took some class and maybe go to shoot every now and then, that they're battle tested all of a sudden.

C'mon, in the extreme scenarios where a madman with a gun comes in and starts shooting, you're really not any safer. Let's be honest, here. Not one of you is Charles goddamn Bronson.

But you all think you are, and that's funny to me.

3/29/2012 4:05:05 PM

nice stereotype

3/29/2012 4:14:55 PM

that wasn't a stereotype.

a sweeping generalization, perhaps, but not a stereotype

3/29/2012 4:34:39 PM

Quote :

"Unless he's the one that started the fight, which at this point kind of sounds like what happened."

Ah yes, that makes sense given that Zimmerman left his car after telling a dispatcher "He's running. They always get away."

3/29/2012 5:06:14 PM

Quote :

"Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anyone here* saying those that choose to go unarmed are taking "unreasonable risks". A risk? Sure, but it's hardly unreasonable. As you point out, most people are safe 95% of the time."

That doesn't address the criticism though. What is the argument for CC carry?

You carry to keep yourself safe right? Nothing is 100% absolute, but the risk tradeoffs result in carrying.

That means people not carrying are taking sub-optimal risk tradeoffs. There is no other logical resolution unless we accept a conclusion you don't want us to accept. Say there is no safety argument for it, then you carry for fun or profit. We might as well ban it in that case.

According to everyone who carries, people who don't carry are wrong. Again, there is no other logical conclusion.

3/29/2012 5:21:51 PM

Quote :

"Terrified? Absolutely not. I am just realistic. There are evil people out there, and you are living in fantasy land if you think there aren't. Why not train and prepare yourself to handle situations that can and do happen?"

So you have a Doomsday bunker right?

3/29/2012 6:13:50 PM

Quote :

"You carry to keep yourself safe right? Nothing is 100% absolute, but the risk tradeoffs result in carrying. "

Sure. Everything is life is tradeoffs. Carrying a gun now means that every aggressive conflict you enter into now has a gun involved that you need to keep track of. As a result, most CCW owners that I know are far more likely to walk away from a bad situation than to stick around. Of course, self defense is more than just the tools, and most CCW folks I know are also into self defense in general and any self defense instructor worth their salt will tell you the number one way to survive any conflict is to not get in the conflict in the first place. Does everyone follow this pattern? Sadly, no, but then again life and freedom isn't about everything being optimal all the time.

Quote :

"According to everyone who carries, people who don't carry are wrong. Again, there is no other logical conclusion. "

This doesn't follow at all. People who make a conscious choice not to carry (for whatever reason) are not "wrong". No one should carry a gun if they aren't comfortable with its operation and comfortable with the idea of possibly using that gun. Self defense is a mindset, and a gun isn't some magical talisman that will ward away bad guys. It's the people that make no effort at all to consider their responsibility for their own safety that are wrong. And even then they aren't wrong so much as misguided. They believe (or never consider) that it is someone else's responsibility (usually the police) to protect them, and that if things go pear shaped that they will be protected by those who's responsibility it is. These people are wrong because a) the courts have already declared the police have no obligation to protect you and b) even if they did, they can't be everywhere at once. Again I reiterate that when I called the police to report bullets coming through my window, it took them 45 minutes to get there, when I could have walked to the police substation in half that time.

The other thing I think you need to keep in mind about CCW folks is a lot of these guys are geeks, in the same sense that you would refer to a computer geek, or a comic book geek or an eco geek or a dungeons and dragons geek. They may talk about all sorts of odd scenarios and what ifs (shooters at the mall, mass chaos a la Katrina, survival scenarios, zombie apocalypse etc) and seem somewhat unbalanced, but these are mostly mental exercises of the same type as "who would win, batman or superman?" or "could an army of orcs defeat this party of heros" and so on. This isn't necessarily because they're expecting these things to happen, but because they allow the geeks to dwell on the geeky details that make their geek obsession fun for them. It happens anytime you engage a geek on their favorite subject, they'll just talk a little too far for your comfort. I have friends who are microbiologists, and if you didn't know that and wandered into one of their conversations, you would swear they were terrorists plotting the end of the world. Gun geeks are no different, so if you catch yourself in a conversation with one and find them going just a step or two further than you're comfortable, keep that in mind, because they probably have the same reaction when they get you talking about whatever your geek subject is.

3/29/2012 6:53:26 PM

people who don't respect my right to own and carry a gun can suck my dick.

3/29/2012 7:09:33 PM

Quote :

"It's not because you want to protect your family and property, it's because you think that in order to do so carrying lethal force at all times is a reasonable precaution."

I think you're insane if you think it's completely unreasonable and worthy of a need for psychiatric help to want to have that protection. I also see that you completely ignored my post on the subject.

Quote :

"Being prejudiced against a person for a certain behavior is vastly different from being prejudiced against a person for their skin color. "

Any specific behaviour? What about religious beliefs? Is that at all similar?

Quote :

"The gun crew is absolutely incapable of saying..."

except for those on here who ARE saying exactly that. you know, like me.

Quote :

"Dude, you live in a small, quiet North Carolina suburb where everyone knows each other. What is the worst thing that can possibly happen in your community? "

Yep. there has NEVER been any kind of violent crime in such a place before. never.

Quote :

"The probability of you accidentally harming your own family with a fleeting moment of bad judgement or a miscalculation have got to be magnitudes higher than someone coming to rape you and your entire family at the top of your cul-de-sac."

claim not cited.

Quote :

"You've also been conditioned to believe that keeping and carrying a gun will increase your chances of successful self-defense, which couldn't be further from the truth."

again, claim not cited. and it flies in the face of other statistics showing the number of crimes that are actually averted and prevented because someone had a gun. I also note that you cited a study that only looked at gun use only in the home. good work! Moreover, the study is comparing the usage in self-defense to the number of misuses. That's about as dishonest of a statistic as you could come up with and doesn't even BEGIN to go towards your claim that having a weapon won't increase your chance of a successful self-defense. Christ, man.

Quote :

"It's an argument that the mix of paranoia and hero-wannabe mentality that drive so many to CC is actually self-defeating and actually raises the chance of harm to you and your family."

despite you showing any evidence to support that claim.

Quote :

"At least open carriers are honest and forthright. That's far less suspicious"

Really? Exercising a privilege you paid money and trained for is "suspicious"? What the fuck is wrong with you? And, it's "honest" to open carry? What the fuck does that mean? That it's somehow evil to exercise your rights in a way that might frighten less ignorant twits such as yourself?

Quote :

"The chance of dying in a car accident over your lifetime is 1 in 100. Does that justify taking a 24/7 precaution (Not riding in a car) against it?"

Good argument. THat's why I always put on my god damned seatbelt. Guess that makes me paranoid. huh?

Quote :

"It's not that it "might' be higher. It is higher."

claim still not cited.

Quote :

"I'd still regard them as likely paranoid or unstable"

so, in other words, anyone carrying a gun is crazy, to you

Quote :

"It's not about being prepared."

actually, that's precisely what it's about. If you don't have the gun at the moment you are being attacked, then it's fucking worthless.

Quote :

"There's a difference between "being trained in self defense" and "going out of their way to be uniquely prepared for self defense while gardening in the suburbs." "

Really? Putting on the holster that you always put on is "going out of your way"?

Quote :

"Am I the only one who finds it downright wacky that the pro-CCW is actually saying that those who don't carry firearms are taking unnecessary risks."

Where has anyone said that?

Quote :

"How does your argument not result in that?"

Because we aren't engaging in a pre-emptive strawman, like you just did...

Quote :

"That doesn't address the criticism though."

What, the criticism that people were making a claim that no one was actually makin? How do you figure?

Quote :

"That means people not carrying are taking sub-optimal risk tradeoffs."

which is NOT the same as an "unnecessary risk"

Quote :

"After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05). . On average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault."

REALLY? You cited a study that only looked at PEOPLE WHO WERE SHOT? Jesus, keep on bringing up absurdly dishonest statistics, dude.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 8:24 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2012 8:19:02 PM

Quote :

"So you have a Doomsday bunker right?"

If I had the available resources... Yes I would invest in some type of shelter that had enough resources to survive for a season or two. Ideally, I would like to get farm land, and have a fortified and well outfitted house. But I'm not making enough money to justify that, yet. I do know a handful of friends and family that have set up something like this.

However, I am not paranoid and I can weigh my options rationally. You obviously don't think people can vary in their risk tolerance and assessment abilities.

Learning how to safely operate and carry a weapon requires a lot less resources and protects against a much more likely circumstances of violence; compared to the likelihood of a bug out/doomsday scenario.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 8:41 PM. Reason : quote]

3/29/2012 8:41:14 PM

Quote :

"Ideally, I would like to get farm land, and have a fortified and well outfitted house."

Fuck yea, I want to do that. I'd like to get some land regardless. I'll survive the apocalypse with chickens, bees, and potatoes.

3/29/2012 8:45:08 PM

Anyone else think the story went more like this?

Quote :

"my door was broken down before my eyes. Then I was repeatedly raped. My endless cries eventually scared them away and called the cops sometimes i wish i had shot them, multiple times each. i'm not going to tell you what color their skin was . because that would spoil the story wouldn't it? (but you could easily guess and get it right)"

3/29/2012 8:55:25 PM