unc 5th in the nation on D and the top of the conference

was actually looking at adifferent season's numbers

they are 28 now and 5th in the acc

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 6:36 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 6:35:00 PM

people who look strictly at PPG allowed say they dont play defense, not taking into account that they score so many points, they can still win games but allow many points

similarly with herb, we appeared to play good defense because of how much shot clock we'd use running our offense...it made our PPG allowed look lower than our actual worth on defense

^i'm just talking about looking at raw PPG allowed

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 6:35 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 6:35:11 PM

Treetwista advocating the use of tempo-free stats

I could almost cry

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 6:36 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2009 6:36:14 PM

UNC's defense pts/g and ranking:

72.3 - 289

A little worse than us, but I'll guarantee you their teams they played against had a lot more possessions than ours.

3/24/2009 6:36:16 PM

^exactly, so just looking at that stat isnt very telling is it

when the big ten has a final score of 38-34 or some shit, it looks like they play the best defense in the nation

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 6:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 6:37:36 PM

Quote :

"I'll guarantee you their teams they played against had a lot more possessions than ours."

Roughly 10 per game

3/24/2009 6:37:39 PM

My point still stands that I hope Lowe will get us going on the defensive side of the ball. If you watched our games this year it was obvious our defense was not good at all.

3/24/2009 6:40:59 PM

I, too, hope we improve defensively.

There are two things I'll watch next season as primary indicators of whether or not Lowe knows what he's doing: defense (particularly in transition) and guard play. Lowe was one of the best point guards we've ever had and played great defense. If he can't coach those aspects of the game (especially with players he recruited), he's probably in over his head.

3/24/2009 6:43:23 PM

i think we all hope he will get things going on both sides of the ball

3/24/2009 6:43:24 PM

believe it or not, ole troll ohboyeee thinks offensively we were fine. Definitely good enough to be a mid tier ACC team. If we can lock down on D and create points off turnovers we just might be on our way.. but implementing it is easier said than done.

of course cut way back on turnovers as well.. which I think is doable if Brown turns out to live up to half the hype we've made him out to be.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 6:47 PM. Reason : []

3/24/2009 6:46:47 PM

Yeah, offensively I don't have much to gripe about. More experienced guards should lead to fewer turnovers and a faster pace. We really didn't have a lot of problems scoring this year.

3/24/2009 6:49:18 PM

our biggest problem was turnovers. creating them and preventing them on our end. and javi was making strides on improving the latter of those in the second half of the season.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 6:56 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 6:56:06 PM

My main concern for next year offensively is the offensive production we are losing with the Fells/Costner/McCauley. Yes, we all know we have the 3 freshman who should/could contribute right away, but they will still be freshman nonetheless. I've yet to see anything that indicates we'll be better on the defensive side of the ball. When you combine those two concerns, the potential for being bottom of the ACC is looming again.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 7:15 PM. Reason : []

3/24/2009 6:58:17 PM

we gave up a lot of points in transition from turnovers, that will improve as we get better with the ball.

We weren't bad considering we dont match up physically with anyone.

3/24/2009 7:24:48 PM

^ i think we matched up very well with Maryland, and they beat us twice. Granted they had Vasquez, but Fells was assigned to him defensively for the first game and much of the second.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 7:40 PM. Reason : []

3/24/2009 7:39:42 PM

and vasquez tore fells' shit up

This is a nice little session going on here on page 120


In losing the big 3 we become more athletic with the recruits coming in

Like Oboyeeeeeeee and others have said, it will be interesting to see who takes over the scoring rolls of the big 3.


Either way, despite not being where I want us to be, I still look forward to seeing the product sid puts on the floor this upcoming year. Although that may change as the season goes on.....

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 8:00 PM. Reason : link]

3/24/2009 7:59:54 PM

is this thread getting sensible? no way.

either this season will be a great progression for lowe or it will cement that he just can't coach. WE'LL SEE! b/c in all honesty, he has the horses to finish... i don't know, 7th or better in the acc if he's a decent coach. there are some garbage teams in this league.

3/24/2009 8:02:38 PM

If we are in the bottom 1/4 of the league again next season, does anyone think we should give him another year? Alot of people have been saying give him 5 years, since that's what we gave Herb, but I really think 4 years is plenty of time to fix the roster issues Lowe inherited and put a quality team on the floor.

3/24/2009 8:12:47 PM

Quote :

"Alot of people have been saying give him 5 years"

Yep

Quote :

"since that's what we gave Herb"

Wait, what? Wanting to give Sidney five years to prove his worth has nothing to do with how long we gave Herb.

Quote :

"If we are in the bottom 1/4 of the league again next season, does anyone think we should give him another year?"

I don't know how you can answer that now. What if we end up with a top recruiting class for 2010? Do we can Sid and potentially lose out on those recruits? What if there are injuries? What if we beat Carolina three times? What if we win the ACC Tournament?

You can't really make that decision now based only on how we may or may not finish.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 8:18 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2009 8:15:44 PM

^^if Sid would have come in under different circumstances then, to me, 4 would be enough. Considering all the shit that went down in the beginning with the coaching search and the mass exodus of players/recruits, missed recruiting year, etc. I think 5 is the right number


If he cant get it done by year 5 with a player like ryan harrow, then we need to move on and find someone else.

3/24/2009 8:20:16 PM

Quote :

"What if we end up with a top recruiting class for 2010? Do we can Sid and potentially lose out on those recruits? What if there are injuries? What if we beat Carolina three times? What if we win the ACC Tournament? "

What if LeBron James retires from pro ball and suits up for State? Some of those seem either extremely unlikely or impossible. As far as injuries, part of a head coach's job is to build up enough depth so that you can still win with injuries, so I don't think that's really a legitimate excuse for not firing him if we're terrible next year.

3/24/2009 8:28:34 PM

My point was that I wouldn't make any decision based solely on his record. You have to look at the season as a whole and in the context of what else he's done. Just saying "what if we finish in the bottom quarter of the league" is short-sighted and isn't enough information to base a decision on.

3/24/2009 8:34:44 PM

^^lebron has 4 years of eligibility

3/24/2009 8:36:19 PM

^^fair enough, but if we finish in the bottom 1/4 of the league next year do you really think we would have beaten Carolina 3 times, or win the ACC tournament? This isn't the SEC after all. Though I agree that I wouldn't care where we finished in the conference if we went to the Dance.

3/24/2009 8:41:46 PM

^^ except he doesn't, but that's alright.

3/24/2009 8:55:38 PM

it was a joke, but that'd be nice if he did

3/24/2009 10:48:16 PM

This page is actually fun to read!

3/24/2009 11:12:36 PM

and it only took 119 pages of ass-tacks to get here

3/25/2009 10:08:26 AM

Quote :

"i hope he'll incorporate using the entire shot clock and living and dying by the three to give the illusion of defense"

God Tree stop talking about fucking Herb.

FWIW our average scoring under Herb in his last season was 4th in the ACC and more per game than UCLA and Florida. I forgot, did those teams do well that year?

3/25/2009 1:53:16 PM

Pay attention, packboozie. PPG is meaningless

[Edited on March 25, 2009 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2009 1:54:38 PM

No shit. Why do you think I mentioned Florida and UCLA going to the NC game with low scoring teams?

3/25/2009 1:55:53 PM

Pomeroy loved him some Herb offense at State.

2005: 14th
2004: 3rd
2003: 40th
2002: 30th

3/25/2009 1:58:25 PM

I have no idea.

3/25/2009 1:58:38 PM

^^he does that stuff per possession, thus the high number.

3/25/2009 2:10:32 PM

Quote :

" FWIW our average scoring under Herb in his last season was 4th in the ACC and more per game than UCLA and Florida. I forgot, did those teams do well that year?"

78.3 - Florida
74.5 - NC State (5th in the ACC)
67.7 - UCLA

3/25/2009 2:19:50 PM

Again, virtually meaningless

3/25/2009 2:22:19 PM

Close enough. Point being UCLA made three straight Final Fours based on defense.

Our defense is the number one thing to improve. I believe our offense will be fine if we limit the turnovers and Lo Brown can handle the rock.

3/25/2009 2:23:06 PM

Quote :

"Point being UCLA made three straight Final Fours based on defense."

True, but the more important point here is that you can't draw anything from points per game stats, so let's stop throwing them around. UCLA didn't score much, but they were one of the most efficient offense teams during each of those final four runs.

3/25/2009 2:27:17 PM

^^I think have some faster players on the floor will help our D. Playing Costner, Mccauley and Smith at the same time definitely put us at the mercy of smaller quicker lineups at times.

3/26/2009 10:09:11 AM

120 pages

3/26/2009 10:21:33 AM

let's just stop talking about Herb...the first round loser isn't here anymore, Sidney's probably got two more years unless some ethical violation takes place or he really gets things turned around. If the team sucks again next year, i'd expect he'd have more class than the haters and probably resign. This is all of course if the world doesn't end before that.

3/26/2009 10:30:56 AM

he won't resign. what else would he do? he'll stay here for as long as we'll keep him.

Next year he HAS to get us to the NIT...

...the year after he HAVE to go to the NCAA or i think he's out.

3/26/2009 11:45:05 AM

Quote :

"let's just stop talking about Herb...the first round loser isn't here anymore"

He lost once and on a last second three by Cal. Let's not talk about him but let's talk shit right?

^I can go along with that. He needs to show improvement next year.

3/26/2009 11:59:36 AM

Quote :

"Next year he HAS to get us to the NIT... "

I think he's gotta do better than that, this should have been the year that he needed to get to the NIT.

3/26/2009 1:57:50 PM

^^ right-O packboozie - i poorly articulated that he gets passed the first round and then proves he has his teams ranked somewhere from 17th to 32nd in the country. And don't give me "last second threes", we would have had a couple of more wins this year if it wasn't for some last possession heroics by foes.

I guess i could start a Herb Sendek Credibility Watch thread, but that's what this has turned into anyway and i have way less than 1000 posts.

3/26/2009 2:06:20 PM

I dont give a shit about the NIT

every year it should be NCAA Tourney or bust. If it's bust, you evaluate by how close the program is to making the Tourney in the future

3/26/2009 2:09:20 PM

Quote :

"he won't resign"

I have a feeling that if we don't make the NIT this next season, Lowe will resign.

3/26/2009 2:11:14 PM

fuck the nit or ncaas, we need an ACC championship.

3/26/2009 2:22:54 PM

^Sure, that's completely logical.

There's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be dominating the Tarholes and Dookies!!!!111

3/26/2009 2:28:55 PM

Onwards to 121 pages of the same shit over and over


do you guys actually think you are going to win something?

3/26/2009 2:30:21 PM